Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

theboy1 · 02-03-2015 12:08am

shuffol wrote: »

Isn't it great how we did and we were missing 4 backrows by halftime. Murphy did what he was picked for, head in every ruck.

5 if you want to include ferris.

Yep Murphy really surprised me, hard as nails.

shuffol · 02-03-2015 12:09am

S12b wrote: »

Henshaw missed a fair few tackles towards the end but they were all in broken play chasing kicks and the like....he was clearly shagged and had nothing in the tank.

He was rock solid in the 12 channel throughout, not just making hits, but making dominant hits. He also beat 6 defenders, more than any other player this weekend!!

Few Connacht fans talking on twitter, apparently Mark McHugh was the last Connacht player to score for Ireland.....just to explain why some of us might be getting a tad carried away with Robbie's performance!!

He's the new BOD, shows up in every facet of play, skills are a fraction of what he brings to the cause.

theboy1 · 02-03-2015 12:11am

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would agree with that but sadly this is becoming rarer in the modern game. If people are holding out for that and want to win tournaments it just won't happen. The issue is more with rugby as a sport than Ireland i feel

Oh absolutely, note I didn't include any World Cup matches in my examples. Cup winning rugby is rarely attack minded but instead built on defence.

Exceptions to this of course..

But I think it would be unfair to state a guy is a proper supporter or 'purist' just because he likes low scoring games.

tritriagain · 02-03-2015 12:14am

Bridge93 wrote: »

I would agree with that but sadly this is becoming rarer in the modern game. If people are holding out for that and want to win tournaments it just won't happen. The issue is more with rugby as a sport than Ireland i feel

Without a doubt it is the game and not just Ireland. I am delighted Ireland are winning and it makes the slog games easier to watch.but as a game if something is not done soon to encourage open attacking play the game will become very one dimensional. I read on boards not so long ago a suggestion to put a weight cap on teams and I laughed when I read it but now I'm not so sure. Will we ever see someone breakthrough and score 3 tries against France ala O'Driscoll again. I would hate to think that sort of magic will not happen again.

awec · 02-03-2015 12:15am

There was two lads from Ulster beside me in the stand. When the anthem was being played one of them whipped out a sheet of paper with the lyrics written out phonetically.

"sheena feena fall..... Chasing Conny around the field"

Lapin · 02-03-2015 12:15am

Warren Gatland

Gits_bone wrote: »

Thanks for making stuff up. I'd rather you didn't do it in future thanks.

Making stuff up -

Gits_bone wrote: »

People were in here saying it was the best match of the tournament. It was an ugly match but we won and that's why they were saying it was the best.

Attacking play was non existent. Neither set of backs made an impact on the game in an attacking sense. 2 broken lines all game from the naked eye. Very few offloads.

A lot of us on this thread were calling it the game of the tournament long before the final whistle. We didn't need the hindsight of the final score to make our minds up for us.

walshb · 02-03-2015 12:16am

tritriagain wrote: »

3 tries against France ala O'Driscoll again. I would hate to think that sort of magic will not happen again.

It happened once. Not like it was ever a regular occurrence. We have a pretty poor record vs. France over the past 25 years or so. That win in 2000 was one in a million. Brilliance. May never see it in our lifetime again. Magic is a subjective term in Rugby and many other combat sports.

Bridge93 · 02-03-2015 12:17am

England

theboy1 wrote: »

Oh absolutely, note I didn't include any World Cup matches in my examples. Cup winning rugby is rarely attack minded but instead built on defence.

Exceptions to this of course..

But I think it would be unfair to state a guy is a proper supporter or 'purist' just because he likes low scoring games.

Oh yeah no doubt, everyone has different tastes. I think everyone enjoys the running, open games but I'd hope all fans can appreciate the spectacle games like today are.
My original point was in response to what appeared to be folk complaining about today's games as being boring etc. I myself as I suspect everyone would, would prefer if we were playing like the ABs.

LeinsterDub · 02-03-2015 12:18am

We are at one end of a cycle. In 2007 wc the then irb make changes in encourage attacking rugby. In 2008/9 people argued it went to far. 2010/11/12 the balance seemed right. Now we are getting defensive again.

It swings in roundabouts.

Bridge93 · 02-03-2015 12:20am

England

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We are at one end of a cycle. In 2007 wc the then irb make changes in encourage attacking rugby. In 2008/9 people argued it went to far. 2010/11/12 the balance seemed right. Now we are getting defensive again.

It swings in roundabouts.

They were talking about this on Down the Blind Side podcast a few weeks ago. Hopefully it is rectified to a balanced level.

ThisRegard · 02-03-2015 12:21am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It swings in roundabouts.

This made me smile, not because it was a typo or autocorrect, but because I just finished watching the "putting women on a pedal stool/damp squid" IT Crowd episode.

duckysauce · 02-03-2015 12:21am

England

metrosity wrote: »

And it was greasy weather too. You're not going to see too much magic from any team in that weather.

clear as **** there today

tritriagain · 02-03-2015 12:22am

walshb wrote: »

It happened once. Not like it was ever a regular occurrence. We have a pretty poor record vs. France over the past 25 years or so. That win in 2000 was one in a million. Brilliance. May never see it in our lifetime again. Magic is a subjective term in Rugby and many other combat sports.[/quote

I don't mean Ireland against France in isolation. I mean in general. Open play and try scoring will become a lost art if players keep getting bigger. Don't get me wrong as a past 2nd row I love the battles but I also love watching players like o Driscoll Shane Williams mike brown etc. An enviorment has to be created where these skills are rewarded and not dampened.

rudiger2.0 · 02-03-2015 12:33am

English Lurker hit the nail on the head when he talked about Joubert's reffing of the breakdown i.e he would let it play out longer than most. Thought Murphy was exceptional and would have had 4/5 turnovers with another ref. Joubert was consistent though.

Somebody mentioned Kearney's ill-judged drop at goal but I was screaming for it (South of France 2012 anyone?) Didn't work out this time.

There was a point when England were on top and we knocked on from a kick. Someone (I'm guessing Watson) was away and Best made an unbelievable tackle when he had no right to. Could have easily been a try and a huge momentum changer.

Great performance all round. We should be less pessimistic going to Wales.

errlloyd · 02-03-2015 12:37am

tritriagain wrote: »

I don't mean Ireland against France in isolation. I mean in general. Open play and try scoring will become a lost art if players keep getting bigger. Don't get me wrong as a past 2nd row I love the battles but I also love watching players like o Driscoll Shane Williams mike brown etc. An enviorment has to be created where these skills are rewarded and not dampened.

Lots of the worlds best try scorers are playing right now. Chris Ashton would be one example of a man with an outrageous try scoring record who isn't that big, Ben Smith is another, he's lighter than BOD.

I believe it is video analysis and defensive organisation and not size that is making the game tighter.

iroced · 02-03-2015 12:40am

Great win for Ireland. Not a bad defeat for England. It was not a great game in terms of "entertainment" but in terms of intensity, jeez what a gap with yesterday's games!!!

England actually impressed me. I mean Ireland was great as long as Sexton was on the pitch. Gave a lesson to England in the line-out, rucking and defence. Murray was great. Very quick to dictate his pace to the game and a typical scrumhalf inspiration on your try. England were constantly under pressure but they held on. In a game where they've been globally dominated, to finish just 10 pts behind (and could have been closer had they been a little more patient towards the end) is noteworthy. England finished very strong :eek:. That's maybe something Ireland have to work on. 2 games in a row where you're struggling towards the end. Could cost you in the future.

So after that game

I'm afraid England will give us the thrashing I was expecting in the Aviva (I actually realise now how much your bogey team we are to you because you seemed so much at ease today, if you had played the same 60 mins against us, you would have crushed us) because England is good and we are bad and we're not England bogey team at all, it's actually the opposite.
we have rationally no chance at the WC against you. You're several years ahead of us as a team, there's absolutely no way we can level that gap in 6 months. I'd just cite one example that stroke me about your clever playing. On Vunipola break. He had Young on his left but Tommy Bowe quickly made a brilliant defensive run (in the space between them) to avoid the pass which eventually ended in the annihilation of England's try chance. This play should be shown and taught in every single rugby school. I always liked and highly rated Bowe but this action was phenomenal. Looked like a detail. But the kind of detail that make you win a game!

MikeSD · 02-03-2015 12:50am

No matter how much the "balance seemed right" from 2010-2012, I would rather not return to those years of going nowhere.

degsie · 02-03-2015 12:51am

Wonder why there were so many empty seats in the stadium.

spiralism · 02-03-2015 12:51am

metrosity wrote: »

Noone knows rugby like the AB's. As a nation they punch way over their weight in sports generally, way more than Ireland even.

Ireland suffers from the David and Goliath syndrome with England on it's shoulder.
Even though, Ireland have in my opinion better players in most positions, pound for pound than England, there will always be that complex with many Irish people.

It's a pity, as we're just better than them right now and there will always be periods in history when we're better than them, just have to put them to the sword, and cut out their spin doctors.

True, for instance NZs cricket team is also favourite to win the (currently ongoing) world cup this year. Their mentality towards sport is really admirable.

I'd like to think it's changing though. I was worried we wouldn't win today because it would signal them becoming a bogey side since Lancaster took over but we were superb. We've beaten everyone of the top 10 except for the ABs under Schmidt now and have two straight wins against France...are we finally starting to achieve our potential?

errlloyd · 02-03-2015 12:56am

spiralism wrote: »

I'd like to think it's changing though. I was worried we wouldn't win today because it would signal them becoming a bogey side since Lancaster took over but we were superb. We've beaten everyone of the top 10 except for the ABs under Schmidt now and have two straight wins against France...are we finally starting to achieve our potential?

We are over-achieving for a nation with 4 professional teams and England and France are greatly underachieving considering they have probably 15 in England and 26 in France.

02-03-2015 1:07am

Can't remember who was asking or where, but Zebo's catch against 4 England players is at 17:45

SaveOurLyric · 02-03-2015 1:14am

Positives :
- we won: and have a grand slam in our sights and arent afraid to talk about it
- we have two complete front rows capable of high international level
- any worries about our post BOD/Darce centre situation are over. The discussion is over other than for 24th man or the minnow games in the world cup
- Zebo will hold his spot. Worked hard, tackled, chased, and caught. He really worked on the the work-ons. Kudos. Will hold off the challenges of McFadden and D Kearney. Only Trimble could displace him now.
- Paulie might still have one or two more immense games for us in the W Cup.
- rucking is outstanding now, particularly to induce penalties
- fitness levels and focus of effort and concentration for the full 80 are excellent
- Jones showed why he is needed on the bench.

Negatives :
- back row injuries are becoming a real problem. Tank likely out for the remainder means Ruddock must be brought up to speed for the Welsh game. Or really consider starting Henderson at 6.
- we take too long to get the kicks in sometimes. 44 in the game is good, but should be up near 60. Can take 4-5 pick-and-gos sometimes to have the right chaser pods ready. And thats too long. It is costing us a penalty opportunity or two per game.
- there is still a tendency to try a couple of backs moves per game which are aimed at line breaking rather than moving the point of the breakdown around to setup the next kick-chase. This needs to be curbed.
- Kearney did not kick and chase enough, and gets caught with the ball too quickly - needs to kick earlier.

Micky Dolenz · 02-03-2015 1:16am

I'll sleep easy tonight knowing all is well in the world. enjoy the good times Lads.

Dick Turnip · 02-03-2015 1:17am

errlloyd wrote: »

We are over-achieving for a nation with 4 professional teams and England and France are greatly underachieving considering they have probably 15 in England and 26 in France.

Whatever about the French and English side of that argument, I don't really buy it that we are over achieving for a nation with only 4 teams.

SA & NZ only have 5 each, was only 4 until around 10 years ago.
Australia only got their 5th team 3 or 4 years ago.
Wales only have 4 teams.

errlloyd · 02-03-2015 1:17am

I lol'd.

ESPN has us at something like 98% ruck retention, which is outlandish.

errlloyd · 02-03-2015 1:19am

Dick Turnip wrote: »

Whatever about the French and English side of that argument, I don't really buy it that we are over achieving for a nation with only 4 teams.

SA & NZ only have 5 each, was only 4 until around 10 years ago.
Australia only got their 5th team 3 or 4 years ago.
Wales only have 4 teams.

NZ, SA and now Australia have a second tier domestic league that is also professional (NZ ITM, SA Currie Cup). The equivalent of if our Ulster Bank league was fully pro. I accept that it was only recently introduced in Aus after failing before, but they have also benefited from Rugby League. I also happen to believe Wales are over performing.

02-03-2015 1:26am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Positives :
....
- Jones showed why he is needed on the bench.

...

Care to elaborate on this one?

Zebo, Murphy and TOD have massively gone up in my estimation today. I thought they were all overrated.

wp_rathead · 02-03-2015 1:30am

Yes Robbie made a whopping 14 tackles and scored the try..
But another stat worth noting was he beat 6 Defenders - most by any player on the pitch

we love you Robbiiieee

S12b · 02-03-2015 1:32am

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Positives :
- we won: and have a grand slam in our sights and arent afraid to talk about it
- we have two complete front rows capable of high international level
- any worries about our post BOD/Darce centre situation are over. The discussion is over other than for 24th man or the minnow games in the world cup
- Zebo will hold his spot. Worked hard, tackled, chased, and caught. He really worked on the the work-ons. Kudos. Will hold off the challenges of McFadden and D Kearney. Only Trimble could displace him now.
- Paulie might still have one or two more immense games for us in the W Cup.
- rucking is outstanding now, particularly to induce penalties
- fitness levels and focus of effort and concentration for the full 80 are excellent
- Jones showed why he is needed on the bench.

Negatives :
- back row injuries are becoming a real problem. Tank likely out for the remainder means Ruddock must be brought up to speed for the Welsh game. Or really consider starting Henderson at 6.
- we take too long to get the kicks in sometimes. 44 in the game is good, but should be up near 60. Can take 4-5 pick-and-gos sometimes to have the right chaser pods ready. And thats too long. It is costing us a penalty opportunity or two per game.
- there is still a tendency to try a couple of backs moves per game which are aimed at line breaking rather than moving the point of the breakdown around to setup the next kick-chase. This needs to be curbed.
- Kearney did not kick and chase enough, and gets caught with the ball too quickly - needs to kick earlier.

Why do you think this? My view, he'll be playing against Wales, as will Sexton.

Bridge93 · 02-03-2015 1:40am

England

How exactly did Jones show why he is needed? I thought today proved the complete opposite with the re-jig we had to do.

Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

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