Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

.ak · 02-03-2015 10:25am

Buer wrote: »

As good as Henshaw was, I'd have undoubtedly given MOTM to Best. He has taken some flak (and deservedly) after the last game but he was superb yesterday. After 70 minutes there were 4 forwards for us who had played the entire game. POM and Murphy were gassed and their legs were gone. POC and Best though showed true class and phenomenal fitness. Best edges it for me for his breakdown work where he was flinging himself into the rucks for his full showing and also had a fine day in the set piece.

He was good, he had a fantastic game, but you couldn't not give motm to a man that saved our bacon in terms of shutting down players who had broken loose, or a man that had no fear in tackling backrowers with a few stone on him, or for taking that ball mid air, repositioning it in the air, and getting it on the deck with one hand, or for picking up what looked to be a game ending injury in the 30th minute and then finishing out the game.

Tv commentators dream of performances like that to make the motm selections so easy.

.ak · 02-03-2015 10:26am

There wasn't an empty seat in the house, place was heaving. Up there atmosphere wise with the Toulouse semi, but just behind the NZ game.

Dravokivich · 02-03-2015 10:31am

duckysauce wrote: »

see him at the end of the match -- non stop moaner :rolleyes: like the rest of the team

It's the environment they are bred in. A lot of post match interviews I saw involving Premiership Clubs is all mainly comments about moaning. There's very little in it really. It's just what they do. I'm a bit annoyed that Conor O'Shea tends to get in on it when he has his 'quins hat on.

.ak · 02-03-2015 10:34am

Gits_bone wrote: »

World Cup is what counts and every team will be looking at us. Where was the versatility everyone spoke about pre game? Maul - kick chase. That is Ireland. Our tactics were found out at the last world cup.

And anyone talking about France as anything to shout about should really look at their record. They have only won 7 of their last 18 in the championship.

We actually varied our game quite a lot. The reason people are talking so much more about the kicking is because it yielded us field position and points, but when it comes to set pieces we actually used ball off the top or disconnected so we ran an awful lot of ball.

Regarding the last World Cup we completely changed our setup and tactics going into the quarter. If anything that was our undoing.

Also regarding what Swiwi was saying about chasing the lead with the current tactics... Well, you just do it the same way as you build a lead. We're becoming experts at building pressure, whether it be on kick chasing, multiple phases or garnering set pieces in danger zones. These all yield points, just because you're behind doesn't make the points any different. You just keep applying that pressure.

accidentprone1 · 02-03-2015 10:34am

I am absolutely delighted at the lineout showing yesterday. It's so much nicer watching a match where you don't have to worry at every single throw.

02-03-2015 10:38am

accidentprone1 wrote: »

I am absolutely delighted at the lineout showing yesterday. It's so much nicer watching a match where you don't have to worry at every single throw.

Stealing their line out near the start of the match when they chose to go to the corner instead of going for the points....

:D:D:D

awec · 02-03-2015 10:44am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stealing their line out near the start of the match when they chose to go to the corner instead of going for the points.... :D:D:D

Yea. Chris Robshaw is a terrible captain IMO. No leadership in that England side to keep things ticking over.

crisco10 · 02-03-2015 10:48am

Deleted User wrote: »

Stealing their line out near the start of the match when they chose to go to the corner instead of going for the points.... :D:D:D

Competing on the oppositions throw from 5m is becoming a rare sight. Teams have become very conservative in that regard, preferring to be more sure of stopping the drive than trying to disrupt the ball.

Was lovely to see Ireland get Toner and POC up on a few of Hartley's throws. Hard to know, but probably one of the smaller tactical decisions pre-game to challenge hard on England ball.

.ak · 02-03-2015 10:53am

awec wrote: »

Yea. Chris Robshaw is a terrible captain IMO. No leadership in that England side to keep things ticking over.

I really felt they were good for a try there. Also didn't they just miss a kick from that range? Anyway the nerves were definitely shared; when dev stole the line out the whole crowd erupted onto their feet, it was like we scored a try. I loved how calm Murray was too.

.ak · 02-03-2015 10:54am

crisco10 wrote: »

Competing on the oppositions throw from 5m is becoming a rare sight. Teams have become very conservative in that regard, preferring to be more sure of stopping the drive than trying to disrupt the ball.

Was lovely to see Ireland get Toner and POC up on a few of Hartley's throws. Hard to know, but probably one of the smaller tactical decisions pre-game to challenge hard on England ball.

That particular steal looked too accurate to be a decent read. Someone did their homework. Was a joy to watch.

walshb · 02-03-2015 10:57am

.ak wrote: »

As for all the comments about us playing negative rugby... I think you're being unfair to the English, I'm not sure why people think we can just open up teams like these at will? We ran some great moves out there, but the English defence was really good. We had a great high view of the game and every time we got smashed behind the game line we actually commented on how good the English defence was. England and France are good teams, England for me are just as good as us, I think it's ridiculous people expect us to somehow gut these teams open.

Absolutely. Where does this sense of entitlement come from, that we should be able to turn up and win, no questions? England with 15 big and powerful men trying their best to beat us. That game yesterday could just as easily went their way with one or two lucky bounces or Irish mistakes. 14 points on the board in no time. We played a super 80 minute game and came out on top. As I said, a couple of bad minutes or plays could have seen us lose. Too many people are looking for this "perfect" game. It does not exist. And it never will.

02-03-2015 11:00am

awec wrote: »

Yea. Chris Robshaw is a terrible captain IMO. No leadership in that England side to keep things ticking over.

I didn't understand them taking 3 points at 13 points down.

crisco10 · 02-03-2015 11:01am

.ak wrote: »

That particular steal looked too accurate to be a decent read. Someone did their homework. Was a joy to watch.

True, Toner had two lifters and was right on the money position-wise.

English Lurker · 02-03-2015 11:05am

.ak wrote: »

Just on the weight thing.. The problem is toner and Ross skew our weight considerably. Our back row are quite small.

And the Vunipolas skew our weight considerably as well. Does it matter where the weight is situated?

Insofar as weight matters to rugby, and its clearly but one of a multitude of factor, I don't think it does. Or, rather, what you get is a set of swings and roundabouts that end up equal. You have some giant lumps that very difficult to shift in mauls and around the fringes. We have bigger men to send in midfield. You have a better target to hit in midfield (George Ford's got the guts of an angry honey badger but he's a modern ROG for effectiveness). You have bigger men out wide.

If there is one regularly expressed opinion on this forum that drives me mad, it is the belief that the Irish are physically smaller than their opponents and that England are huge. The stats, dubious as they may be at times, are out there. You're not small. This current incarnation of the team is a little small in the back row granted, but your tight five aren't and your backline is a regular 6'+ 90kg+, which even in this day and age is not the norm. Not to mention that, really, size is so very far from everything and the rest of the 6N would do foul and unforgivable things to have access to power athletes like Healy, SOB and Henderson, even if there are some bigger men trotting out in their positions elsewhere. Yes, I know that Schmidt reckoned the Irish players could be a bit bigger, and I think he may be onto something there, but I don't think you're actually small or anything.

Plus, well, we're not huge. We've a couple of big players, some a bit above average, quite a few average and a fair old few comfortably below average. And a first choice England team is probably even smaller than this.

Honestly, it almost drives me madder than England's performance levels

ionadnapokot · 02-03-2015 11:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

Stealing their line out near the start of the match when they chose to go to the corner instead of going for the points.... :D:D:D

One of those moments to remember! And Henshaw's volley down the pitch!And Sexton's tackle on Ford. And....:D

BoardsMember · 02-03-2015 11:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't understand them taking 3 points at 13 points down.

A bit like his decision against South Africa that he got pilloried for. Hard to understand that one, though there was a good bit more time on the clock.

One of the things to work on for me is how to close the game out. It seemed very like pick & drive approach against New Zealand at the end, we were pinged by the ref, and suddenly having been in their half with the ball, we were lucky not to concede a try.

I know the temptation is to keep it tight, but refs (particularly southern hemisphere ones) are just looking to ping teams who are trying to do nothing with the ball. I know another factor is that the lads are wrecked, a lot of the England resurgence seemed to be a drop off on the chasing of the kicks, but perhaps some poorer kicks too.

Baggy Trousers · 02-03-2015 11:09am

One pivotal moment for me was Vunipola's kick ahead which crept over the try line but always looked like it would go into touch around 5m line. We were under a lot of pressure at that point with 20 mins or so to go.

.ak · 02-03-2015 11:10am

Also the other big moments of the match for me was sexton turning Burrell into a tin can and breaking him in half. Or Sexton's trying to kill poor young ford. Unfortunately he missed the resulting penalty, but it was a tough one (or maybe he bottled it? :rolleyes: )

What about that touch line conversion though? Jesus!

thomond2006 · 02-03-2015 11:13am

England

.ak wrote: »

I really felt they were good for a try there. Also didn't they just miss a kick from that range? Anyway the nerves were definitely shared; when dev stole the line out the whole crowd erupted onto their feet, it was like we scored a try. I loved how calm Murray was too.

I don't agree. In a tight match like that you have to take your points. It was a crucial mistake. If the roles were reversed I'm certain POC/Sexton would point at the sticks.On Emmet's post I couldn't understand the call to take 3 points at 19-6 down. That had to go to corner. Perhaps the lost lineout in the first half spooked Robshaw?

IMO it's either Grand Slam or bust for Ireland. Ireland have a 15 point advantage over England but given England's fixtures I'd back them to catch us. You'd fear for France and Scotland at Twickenham.

aimee1 · 02-03-2015 11:18am

crisco10 wrote: »

Competing on the oppositions throw from 5m is becoming a rare sight. Teams have become very conservative in that regard, preferring to be more sure of stopping the drive than trying to disrupt the ball.

Was lovely to see Ireland get Toner and POC up on a few of Hartley's throws. Hard to know, but probably one of the smaller tactical decisions pre-game to challenge hard on England ball.

There is a great pic on irish times website of that steal. POM and Toner in the air.

Buer · 02-03-2015 11:19am

awec wrote: »

Yea. Chris Robshaw is a terrible captain IMO. No leadership in that England side to keep things ticking over.

Ah, come on. That's hyperbole. He's a very good captain generally speaking. Completely leads by example and is a smart bloke. He got that one wrong, undoubtedly, but you can go back to so many incidents like that for every captain.

Was BOD a terrible captain because Ireland went to the corner against Wales in the RWC?

Robshaw has captained England through something of a revival and has been central to that.

.ak · 02-03-2015 11:19am

English Lurker wrote: »

And the Vunipolas skew our weight considerably as well. Does it matter where the weight is situated?

Insofar as weight matters to rugby, and its clearly but one of a multitude of factor, I don't think it does. Or, rather, what you get is a set of swings and roundabouts that end up equal. You have some giant lumps that very difficult to shift in mauls and around the fringes. We have bigger men to send in midfield. You have a better target to hit in midfield (George Ford's got the guts of an angry honey badger but he's a modern ROG for effectiveness). You have bigger men out wide.

If there is one regularly expressed opinion on this forum that drives me mad, it is the belief that the Irish are physically smaller than their opponents and that England are huge. The stats, dubious as they may be at times, are out there. You're not small. This current incarnation of the team is a little small in the back row granted, but your tight five aren't and your backline is a regular 6'+ 90kg+, which even in this day and age is not the norm. Not to mention that, really, size is so very far from everything and the rest of the 6N would do foul and unforgivable things to have access to power athletes like Healy, SOB and Henderson, even if there are some bigger men trotting out in their positions elsewhere. Yes, I know that Schmidt reckoned the Irish players could be a bit bigger, and I think he may be onto something there, but I don't think you're actually small or anything.

Plus, well, we're not huge. We've a couple of big players, some a bit above average, quite a few average and a fair old few comfortably below average. And a first choice England team is probably even smaller than this.

Honestly, it almost drives me madder than England's performance levels

Yeah that's a fair point, however it does matter where that weight is situated. Toner and Ross aren't very good carriers. We use our openside and 8 as primary, so really when you play a game with Murphy and TOD in those roles you're at a disadvantage. As a side note I thought they were incredible yesterday, considering what was asked of them, but to put in context on tod's first carry we got gobbled up. Guys like vinny, Haskell, dousatoir, picamoles are all big units and carry the weight where it's needed most. Out of our first choice backrow only sob has the weight and dynamism to break the gain line. We have some monster front rows but we don't produce big flankers like other countries do.

thomond2006 · 02-03-2015 11:21am

England

Haskell's line speed in defence was very impressive yesterday. He was marginally offside at times but didn't get pinged, therefore good job by him! When Haskell played a few years back I thought he had a tendancy to go missing in the trenches but he's a completely different player now.

On line speed yesterday though, nothing was better than Sexton smashing Burrell on the England 22 to win a penalty!

.ak · 02-03-2015 11:22am

I thought Haskell had a great first half.

aimee1 · 02-03-2015 11:23am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't agree. In a tight match like that you have to take your points. It was a crucial mistake. If the roles were reversed I'm certain POC/Sexton would point at the sticks.On Emmet's post I couldn't understand the call to take 3 points at 19-6 down. That had to go to corner. Perhaps the lost lineout in the first half spooked Robshaw?

IMO it's either Grand Slam or bust for Ireland. Ireland have a 15 point advantage over England but given England's fixtures I'd back them to catch us. You'd fear for France and Scotland at Twickenham.

Backlash from scotland after saturday. They are decent in defence out wide too. France will produce one performance and if italy beat them it could be twickers.

I do think our best bet is a slam tho.

Buer · 02-03-2015 11:23am

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

One pivotal moment for me was Vunipola's kick ahead which crept over the try line but always looked like it would go into touch around 5m line. We were under a lot of pressure at that point with 20 mins or so to go.

It was probably the wrong decision but I don't think it was a terrible kick, more a little unfortunate. If that held up a couple of more yards England were looking at a 5m scrum of line out and people would be hailing it as a match changing moment.

aimee1 · 02-03-2015 11:24am

.ak wrote: »

I thought Haskell had a great first half.

He has a tendency to give away a dumb penalty or two early in games and he did yesterday which got us moving.

thomond2006 · 02-03-2015 11:28am

England

aimee1 wrote: »

Backlash from scotland after saturday. They are decent in defence out wide too. France will produce one performance and if italy beat them it could be twickers.

I do think our best bet is a slam tho.

I really don't think they will. Maybe records mean nothing but France's recent record against England is awful, home or away. The best we can hope for is they keep the score down.

awec · 02-03-2015 11:29am

Buer wrote: »

Ah, come on. That's hyperbole. He's a very good captain generally speaking. Completely leads by example and is a smart bloke. He got that one wrong, undoubtedly, but you can go back to so many incidents like that for every captain.

Was BOD a terrible captain because Ireland went to the corner against Wales in the RWC?

Robshaw has captained England through something of a revival and has been central to that.

I'm not basing it just on that!

During the Wales game I remember him running after the ref and whining constantly. It's just not smart. The wrong ref and he would have been yellow carded.

I just don't think he's that good at it.

Tox56 · 02-03-2015 11:31am

English Lurker wrote: »

And the Vunipolas skew our weight considerably as well. Does it matter where the weight is situated?

Insofar as weight matters to rugby, and its clearly but one of a multitude of factor, I don't think it does. Or, rather, what you get is a set of swings and roundabouts that end up equal. You have some giant lumps that very difficult to shift in mauls and around the fringes. We have bigger men to send in midfield. You have a better target to hit in midfield (George Ford's got the guts of an angry honey badger but he's a modern ROG for effectiveness). You have bigger men out wide.

If there is one regularly expressed opinion on this forum that drives me mad, it is the belief that the Irish are physically smaller than their opponents and that England are huge. The stats, dubious as they may be at times, are out there. You're not small. This current incarnation of the team is a little small in the back row granted, but your tight five aren't and your backline is a regular 6'+ 90kg+, which even in this day and age is not the norm. Not to mention that, really, size is so very far from everything and the rest of the 6N would do foul and unforgivable things to have access to power athletes like Healy, SOB and Henderson, even if there are some bigger men trotting out in their positions elsewhere. Yes, I know that Schmidt reckoned the Irish players could be a bit bigger, and I think he may be onto something there, but I don't think you're actually small or anything.

Plus, well, we're not huge. We've a couple of big players, some a bit above average, quite a few average and a fair old few comfortably below average. And a first choice England team is probably even smaller than this.

Honestly, it almost drives me madder than England's performance levels

Weight doesn't lie and that's fair enough but Ross and toner aren't on the same level as someone like Vunipola in terms of carrying power despite comparable weight, thats where the concern always is against England. The backrow that played most of the game for us, POM, TOD and Murphy seems pretty lightweight for this level, especially against beasts like Haskell and Vunipola. It wasn't an issue thankfully but if that backrow lined out again I'd be worried, even SOB isn't the biggest

Ireland vs England, Sunday 1st March 3pm; RTE/BBC

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