Sparks wrote: »

Yes. The Law Reform Commission has one, there's one in the appendices of the only textbook on this chunk of law, the NTSA has one, and I did one after the 06 act but it doesn't include the 09 act.

The other 15 or 16 acts that make up the law that governs the use of firearms by licenced owners, however, you're on your own with

Thanks, that's relatively up to date. Was using the Legislation Directory tab in irishstatutebook.ie up until now. That makes life much easier. I feel a bit thick that I didn't do a quick google...

I really think the committee should be presented with the figures in a full breakdown and should demand they be made available as such. I know they've asked in PQs and in writing about different types shotguns, pistols etc but I mean actually submit a format they want filled. Ignore this if they already have an I've not seen.There should able be three data groups making up the figures. Licensed firearms holders, Dealerships & the 3rd is AGS/Army + other professions that require firearms for humane dispatch for example. I made a little spreadsheet that illustrates better what I'm talking about. I'm only in the sport a couple of years now so obviously my knowledge is limited and there's bound to be mistakes but you'll get what I'm talking about if you view the image.

I'll ask a mod post it as I'm under 50 posts.

http://i.imgur.com/fBsv5DR.png

bravestar wrote: »

Yes, you have misinterpreted it through no fault of your own though. There are also 101 legit reasons why a classification might be changed.

I don't deny there are legitimate reasons that a report can be changed, it would be madness if it couldn't, but there is no over sight on who / why a report is changed.

Is any rank of Garda able to change the reports in Pulse?

Gormley85 wrote: »

Anybody else get a letter from the sports coalition? It has a list of all td's/senators email addresses and examples of things we should be saying to them?

Yeah, my club forwarded me an email earlier today including it.

I haven't been home yet so I'll see.

Sparks wrote: »

The heat death of the universe is an inevitable outcome too Grizzly, but nobody's advising anyone not to start reading any long novels because of it...

But still what is considerd radical crankness can with time become the norm. It just takes longer here than anywhere else.

Yup. Now, how many of those half a dozen would want to (or for that matter, could afford the pay cut it would entail)?

Couldnt be any worse than the current wage I'm on being self employed..:D
Anyone who thinks the private sector id the way to go here got another think..
Am under the industrial average wage,again this year.:(

So if that's how civil servants work, and we can work with that, why did you say above that

:
Because you are dealing with a different breed of civil servant,and one with way to much power to make arbitary decisions,and with very little knowledge to make a justified decision from hands on experiance.

Because if you think the civil servants will be from the Department of Sport, I think you're mistaken.

They can be from the dept of agriculture,weights and measures and conformority of Govt issue tea cups and as anti gun as Dianne Feinstein.All they have to have is the ability to read ,understand ,and use the Net if possible and be able to deal with and issue paperwork without worrying that this decision might affect their career,or that someone up the chain has a political agenda and is ordering them to create artifical barriers or impose restrictions when there is none or no good reason to do so.Or that they have an ego problem and use their littler bit of power to be a mini Hitler to all and sundry.

For the moment, I'd say that the fact that almost nobody can read the damn rulebook and the few that can have all spotted lots of places where it makes no damn sense is a more pressing problem than looking to hire a referee, even if that is an important problem too.

But if you have two parties insisting on two different interpertations of the already very nebelous rules,how is this sorted?

Lying in a court is something that the courts take a dim view of, to the point where it's an actual crime. So that's a problem that comes with a predefined solution, all you have to do is prove that it's what's happened.
(If you're looking for a solution where you can fix that without proving it, you might be there for a while).

I think a certain det Insp of a certain dept relating to firearms is in that situation at the moment,and apprently there is a whole lot more coming down the sewer pipe regarding AGS carry on with firearm liscense holders in a certain part of the country.So no problem there with the system and it is proving to be thankfully impartial.




And your solution to this is?
(If it's "fire them all" or "get them out of licencing", you might want to rethink those, because the former would be political suicide for the Minister and career suicide for the Commissioner; and the latter, barring a massive sea change, will not be happening anytime soon).[/QUOTE]

Well,sea changes,do come about quite quickWhat I'm saying is dont rule it out outright.TBH alot of AGS will admit from from one of the CS[to me personally] down they havent a bulls notion of what they are dealing with and are relying on ballistics to give them a solution.So if they can do it without losing face,I would proably say its a idea going around the park.After all if they could accept 3 year liscsenses and an post collecting the fees???At one time this was a "security issue" that only AGS could handle from start to finish.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

From the NARGC facebook page.

PRESS RELEASE
Sports Coalition Lodges Formal Complaint with GSOC Over
Misleading Garda Figures
The Sports Coalition, which represents most of the sports shooters in the State in the matter of firearms licensing, has lodged a formal complaint with the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) over what the Coalition says are misleading and inflammatory statistical data published by An Garda Síochána.
The complaint also cites the use of deceptive photographic imagery depicting firearms that are not permitted for licensing in Ireland. The Coalition has forwarded a copy of the complaint to the Minister for Justice and Equality, Frances Fitzgerald TD.
It is noted that the Minister has had to issue a further clarification on the figures today, which clearly indicates that a very significant number of firearms were in fact unlicensed and therefore did not come from licensed firearms holders.
ENDS
26/02/2015.

Shots fires

Dunno why they bother...GSOC as an appaling record with NOT investigating properly any firearms related issues in the Limerick/ Cork regions.

May get some good press off it . But they are right to do so anyways . At least it can be said that they are formally disputing these figures.
And just might stop all the ak47 pictures coming up in the papers.
May just reduce the spin a bit.

Reckon its more the little piccie book they passed about to the comittee before Xmas. No doubt GSOC will find that not worth investigating or come up with some cock&bull excuse not to.

SVI40 wrote: »

I don't deny there are legitimate reasons that a report can be changed, it would be madness if it couldn't, but there is no over sight on who / why a report is changed.

Is any rank of Garda able to change the reports in Pulse?

No they can't. Certainly not the lowest ranks. And they'd also have no interest in changing categories of incidents to suit statistical reports, as they'd have no involvement in anything like that.
Now officer ranks.....where low crime stats in your district/division make you look good as the manager of a district/division, well that'd help you when going for a jump up.

Anyone hear the good news out of the HC today???
I t seems we WON yet again in 25 cases taken as test cases in the situation of the 5 or 10 shot magazine and the looks like a combat pistol bulloney. Apparently the state folded before even going into court as they knew they were going to get hammered again.
awaiting more news on this

Cass wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but district courts are not courts of record meaning no precedence is set.

Regardless, i'm still wondering why people do not bring the issue to court. I can understand the need to take something if it's being offered and whether or not the district court is a court of record or not at least an actual win, and not some court step agreement, would be better. Surely?

Also for costs you'd need to have an actual hearing, and the recorded wins (whether a precedence setter or not) would stack in our favour.

Was it not High Court? Grizzly did say 'HC'?

Sorry I'll spell it out. HIGH COURT!!!!! you do then realise that it has shot down the 10 shot mag "could be " used in a 5 shot pistol and the whole "olympic style" pistols nonsense has been found out for what it is ,a fraud! This has some very far reaching consequences for AGS arguements on the shotgun mag capacity too.

Ok from what I am being told it means that using the excuse of the high mag capacity,or potential high mag capacity in an unrestricted pistol is a null and void reason to say it is a restricted firearm.As it doesnt give you the opportunity to appeal this decision to the DC.As is the" looks like" a military/police /" non Olympic style" pistol concept.As there is nothing to say contry wise in the ISSF rule book as to what a pistol MUST look like.Am getting this 2nd hand and that seems to be the gist of it.

It is a "refer to Super for re consideration" again ruling AFAICMO.So you could end up doing the "DC shuffle" again.But there is the double jepodary now for the Super in the fact costs and decision could go against him too. So it has been equalised now in law.We can loose liscense and solrs fees,the AGS can lose decision and have costs awarded against them.
Probly take awhile for this to be published in law or via a court guy[cant think of the title who publishes these decisions in a more tidy fashion]
So the best thing is say to your cheif that he should be aware of this HC edict in his considerations.