I am convinced that Ireland is in Serious trouble

jank · 26-02-2015 10:05AM

Tony EH wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is a measure of what's happening in people's lives.

You know you can go to the dole office and get 5 free prams, a free car and a cleaner for your house. I heard it in the pub, honest!

Kev_2012 · 26-02-2015 10:07AM

I work as a software developer and have been lucky that Ireland has a lot of jobs in that sector. I was always kinda happy in Limerick but I had an itch I needed to scratch so I moved to Canada and was there for 18 months.

I have noticed some massive issues since coming back, some pre existing, some that are new :

- All of the jobs are in Dublin area predominately. Having them all concentrated in one city when the rest of the country is failing is NOT good. (Unless you're living in Dublin)
- Rent has gone insane.
- A lot of people that are left have no ambition to do anything great in their lives and are happy to stay in a low-grade stable job (Some people may prefer this, I'm not looking down on ye, just seems like a bad thing to aim for IMO)
- There is absolutely nothing to do outside of drink/play sport.(I love playing sport and drinking a bit is fine, but I've outgrown the drinking culture that we have. I can't deal with the hangovers/not remembering the whole night, I'd like to stay out in pubs and have some food in them late at night too!)
- Pubs have gone insane in price. 5.40 for a pint of Tiger in Limerick? Get out of here. It's was 4.50 when I left 2 years ago. Crazy.
- On a personal level, I cannot stand the way politics/business is ran in Ireland and I'd imagine that the UK is the same. There is no communication between pay grades and a lot of unnecessary priorities. Dog tagging? WTF? Maybe when were not in sh1t! Companies making stupid trivial changes in policies when they are hemorrhaging money

Some thing I'm more worried about for future generations :
- In Limerick anyway, we have the best of the best when it comes to soccer players aged 16 and under, then they start going on the lash and eating crap food and their talent is going to waste. I think having a few drinks is fine, I love it myself, but it's a little worrying that young people are going this way in a never ending loop.
- We should really start teaching kids Chinese/German/Spanish from an early age. French is kinda pointless (I speak it quite well but all I've used it for so far is ordering breakfast in Paris and chatting up some haunty ones in Canada). If I have kids I hope to teach them a foreign language from an early age.

To be honest, I don't think I could stay here for good.

26-02-2015 10:07AM

No matter what way you try and spin it, the Irish economy is doing well and doing a lot better that some Europe countries, that does not mean everyone is doing well of course some sectors of the economy are doing better than others it was always like that.

There is a big difference between saying I cant get a job in the area I want or in an area I retrained for verses I cant get any job at all.

jank · 26-02-2015 10:12AM

Streetwalker wrote: »

The government along with state and special interest media have spun the heck out of the paper thin "recovery" over the last 6 months and we are going to see that stepped up over the next year or so to ensure SF don't get into power. Then when reality hits and people realise it's a con job the downturn will be blamed on outside factors and other such sh1te. If people working 40 hour weeks for 380 euro is a sign of a recovery we are truly fecked.

Do you know what the average wage is like in places like Poland or Slovakia.
More people working is a good thing, yet we Irish even have a moan at that. Priceless stuff.

A person working 40 hours a week earning 380 a week IS better then the same person not working and drawing the guts of 200 euro from the dole. Are you honestly trying to argue that it is not?

All the trends are pointing in the right direction, yet the perpetual moaners are still not happy. I suppose since the mantra of 'Austerity doesn't work' has now and truly been shot to pieces I suppose a different narrative has to be spun for the moaners to lap up and rally around. Sure signs of desperation from the clueless.

Hoop66 · 26-02-2015 10:28AM

I can only really speak from personal experience, but there are a few signs that things are improving.

The main one being that medium to large companies are hugely increasing their IT spend. I've had dealing with companies in the manufacturing, sales and finance sectors in the last year and all are spending on IT infrastructure. I don't think it's too big a leap to see that this is because they think they will be doing more, rather than less, business in the coming years.

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 10:43AM

jank wrote: »

Do you know what the average wage is like in places like Poland or Slovakia.
More people working is a good thing, yet we Irish even have a moan at that. Priceless stuff.

A person working 40 hours a week earning 380 a week IS better then the same person not working and drawing the guts of 200 euro from the dole. Are you honestly trying to argue that it is not?

All the trends are pointing in the right direction, yet the perpetual moaners are still not happy. I suppose since the mantra of 'Austerity doesn't work' has now and truly been shot to pieces I suppose a different narrative has to be spun for the moaners to lap up and rally around. Sure signs of desperation from the clueless.

There is no comparison between the cost of living here and that in places like Poland and Slovakia. There may be a certain amount of work going on - I personally am seeing a lot of young and not so youngfellas without work and without a sniff of a hope of work, but be that as it may - but there is an awful lot of running-to-stand-still going on as well. In the case of someone earning €380 for a 40-hour week, assuming a five-day week that presents a "gross profit", if you will, of €38 per-working day over the dole. Deduct from that the cost of working - yes, it costs money to work, think of it as the Cost of Goods Sold in accounting terms - which comprises the costs associated with being up early, making yourself clean and presentable, transporting yourself to and from where you need to be, feeding yourself, and probably one or two other bits-and-pieces that elude me at the moment. Your €38 is starting to look a bit skinny. If you live in one of the cities, you might as well stay in bed! :pac:

Greyian · 26-02-2015 10:57AM

jimgoose wrote: »

There is no comparison between the cost of living here and that in places like Poland and Slovakia. There may be a certain amount of work going on - I personally am seeing a lot of young and not so youngfellas without work and without a sniff of a hope of work, but be that as it may - but there is an awful lot of running-to-stand-still going on as well. In the case of someone earning €380 for a 40-hour week, assuming a five-day week that presents a "gross profit", if you will, of €38 per-working day over the dole. Deduct from that the cost of working - yes, it costs money to work, think of it as the Cost of Goods Sold in accounting terms - which comprises the costs associated with being up early, making yourself clean and presentable, transporting yourself to and from where you need to be, feeding yourself, and probably one or two other bits-and-pieces that elude me at the moment. Your €38 is starting to look a bit skinny. If you live in one of the cities, you might as well stay in bed! :pac:

As opposed to people who don't work, who feed on what exactly....misery and suffering?
There also isn't a financial cost to waking up earlier.

Deducting the cost of transport, cost of clothing (if special clothing is required) etc is fine, but don't just make up fake/non-financial costs as a basis for suggesting work doesn't pay enough.
Sure, I work in IT, my boss should pay me an extra €20,000 "keeping your fingers" bonus on top of my salary, because I could cut off my fingers if I was on the dole without losing any income.

Tony EH · 26-02-2015 10:57AM

jank wrote: »

You know you can go to the dole office and get 5 free prams, a free car and a cleaner for your house. I heard it in the pub, honest!

There's a difference between honest anecdotal evidence and easily demonstrable lies.

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 11:00AM

Greyian wrote: »

As opposed to people who don't work, who feed on what exactly....misery and suffering?
There also isn't a financial cost to waking up earlier.

Deducting the cost of transport, cost of clothing (if special clothing is required) etc is fine, but don't just make up fake/non-financial costs as a basis for suggesting work doesn't pay enough.
Sure, I work in IT, my boss should pay me an extra €20,000 "keeping your fingers" bonus on top of my salary, because I could cut off my fingers if I was on the dole without losing any income.

Do you work for €380 per-week?

Greyian · 26-02-2015 11:41AM

jimgoose wrote: »

Do you work for €380 per-week?

No, but that doesn't change the point at all.

If you want to argue that €38/day extra when working isn't enough, then do it using actual valid reasons, don't exaggerate. You can't say feeding yourself is a cost that comes out of the €38/day extra, when you have to feed yourself whether you work or not. Likewise, there's no tax associated with waking up earlier in the morning.

If the cost of getting to/from work is €5 return, then it would be perfectly valid to say that the effective benefit of working is €33/day. If the cost of a sandwich is €2, that should be coming the dole-equivalent portion of the person's wage (i.e, the not extra part associated with working), because the person would have eaten the sandwich anyway to survive. If they happen to be going for expense lunches every day, which eat into the extra money earned by working, that's their choice, and can't be applied as a cost associated with working. Hell, maybe the reason they want to work is specifically so they can afford those nicer lunches, so it would even be a benefit, not a cost, of working.

And my point about the €20,000 for not cutting off my fingers, is my equally exaggerated point that you could come up with any excuse for making the amount you receive as a salary insufficient to compete with welfare. Sure, you could make the argument that if someone is on €100,000 a year for a 9 to 5 job, but puts a value of €100,000 on the freedom to smear faeces on their bedroom wall at noon every weekday, they'd be better off on the dole...but it would also be an incredibly stupid argument to make.

micosoft · 26-02-2015 11:51AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The only thing stopping that is politics

Reality is the only thing prevented this nonsense.

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 12:00PM

Greyian wrote: »

No, but that doesn't change the point at all.

If you want to argue that €38/day extra when working isn't enough, then do it using actual valid reasons, don't exaggerate. You can't say feeding yourself is a cost that comes out of the €38/day extra, when you have to feed yourself whether you work or not. Likewise, there's no tax associated with waking up earlier in the morning...

The costs of simply hanging around in this vale of tears begin when you get out of bed. The longer you're up, the more food you need. As far as I'm concerned €38 per-day is much too tight a margin.

Greyian · 26-02-2015 12:02PM

jimgoose wrote: »

The costs of simply hanging around in this vale of tears begin when you get out of bed. The longer you're up, the more food you need. As far as I'm concerned €38 per-day is much too tight a margin.

And if you're getting up earlier because you're working, you're probably also going to bed earlier (because you'll be working the next day).

Ben D Bus · 26-02-2015 12:06PM

jimgoose wrote: »

The costs of simply hanging around in this vale of tears begin when you get out of bed. The longer you're up, the more food you need. As far as I'm concerned €38 per-day is much too tight a margin.

Seriously?

If you're hoping to get a job that offers a lot more than a €38/day margin then you need to be getting up early anyway. You need to have smart clothes ready in preparation for interviews. You need to be out and about doorstepping potential employers. And you'll need to feed yourself to maintain the energy for the job of finding a job. All those costs will be coming from your SW payments.

If you're not doing that then the problem isn't the Irish economy. :mad:

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 12:16PM

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Seriously?

If you're hoping to get a job that offers a lot more than a €38/day margin then you need to be getting up early anyway. You need to have smart clothes ready in preparation for interviews. You need to be out and about doorstepping potential employers. And you'll need to feed yourself to maintain the energy for the job of finding a job. All those costs will be coming from your SW payments.

If you're not doing that then the problem isn't the Irish economy. :mad:

I'm quite serious, yes. You demonstrated my point perfectly when you said "If you're hoping to get a job that offers a lot more than a €38/day margin". "Working" for that quite of twine is not a viable proposition for an independent adult. By the way, I've done the whole job-search/interview thing a while back.

26-02-2015 12:30PM

This thread is funny in some ways its gone form we are all domed and there are no jobs its all government massaged figures I'm telling ya!!! then someone point actual evidence of a fall in unemployment and the response is yeah alright there is a fall in unemployment and there are jobs but they don't pay enough!!!.

Ben D Bus · 26-02-2015 12:31PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I'm quite serious, yes. You demonstrated my point perfectly when you said "If you're hoping to get a job that offers a lot more than a €38/day margin". "Working" for that quite of twine is not a viable proposition for an independent adult. By the way, I've done the whole job-search/interview thing a while back.

I believe you are wrong and would not entertain any moaning from someone who turned their nose up at a €38/day improvement in their income.

I'm sure there would be cases where that margin was genuinely eroded by taking up work but for anyone turning it down is not an 'independent adult'. They have made themselves dependent on those who do choose to work.

KomradeBishop · 26-02-2015 12:40PM

mariaalice wrote: »

No matter what way you try and spin it, the Irish economy is doing well and doing a lot better that some Europe countries, that does not mean everyone is doing well of course some sectors of the economy are doing better than others it was always like that.

There is a big difference between saying I cant get a job in the area I want or in an area I retrained for verses I cant get any job at all.

Again - there are 24 people per job vacancy at the moment, and unemployment is ~10%; the economy is not doing well, it is slowly crawling out of the hole that it has been in the past while, and when QE fails and deflation returns, it - absent major policy changes from Europe - will become stagnant again.

No amount of positive spin is going to change that reality.

KomradeBishop · 26-02-2015 12:43PM

micosoft wrote: »

Reality is the only thing prevented this nonsense.

You're just asserting your point of view as 'reality', without argument - what's your solution to eventual deflation, once QE fails? The only one presenting one around here, is me and the few other posters, who recognize the importance of EU-based fiscal spending.

KomradeBishop · 26-02-2015 12:45PM

mariaalice wrote: »

This thread is funny in some ways its gone form we are all domed and there are no jobs its all government massaged figures I'm telling ya!!! then someone point actual evidence of a fall in unemployment and the response is yeah alright there is a fall in unemployment and there are jobs but they don't pay enough!!!.

There are not enough jobs - 24 people per job vacancy; ignoring this and just saying "there are jobs" is an obvious attempt to crap out some positive spin.

Tony EH · 26-02-2015 01:00PM

NOT

ENOUGH

JOBS

Maybe it might sink in now...

Ben D Bus · 26-02-2015 01:21PM

Tony EH wrote: »

NOT

ENOUGH

JOBS

Maybe it might sink in now...

Number of jobs is growing
Number of unemployed is falling

Not enough jobs YET but movement is in the right direction.

SEPT 23 1989 · 26-02-2015 01:23PM

The European Commission has warned that Ireland must take “decisive policy action” to address macroeconomic imbalances in the economy.

Kenny says everything is fine nothing to see here

Ravenid · 26-02-2015 01:26PM

Tony EH wrote: »

NOT

ENOUGH

JOBS

Maybe it might sink in now...

I cant wait until FG are out and we get back our 100% employment rate Ireland has always had.

We are a laughing stock world wide where every other country has 100% employment rate and no one else has any problems with not having enough jobs.

Cant you blind sheep see its only this government that has ever had a unemployment rate in this country (It doesnt matter if it is decreasing thats a moot point.)

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 02:10PM

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I believe you are wrong and would not entertain any moaning from someone who turned their nose up at a €38/day improvement in their income.

I'm sure there would be cases where that margin was genuinely eroded by taking up work but for anyone turning it down is not an 'independent adult'. They have made themselves dependent on those who do choose to work.

I wouldn't do it myself, couldn't afford to chief. If any of my mates, none of whom are under 40 and none of whom live with their parents, did it I'd think they were mental. :pac:

Ben D Bus · 26-02-2015 02:14PM

jimgoose wrote: »

I wouldn't do it myself, couldn't afford to chief. If any of my mates, none of whom are under 40 and none of whom live with their parents, did it I'd think they were mental. :pac:

I've some great news for you so

As well as more people working, fewer people on the dole, incomes are also on the up.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0226/682994-earnings-cso-2014/

Win, win, win! :pac:

jimgoose · 26-02-2015 02:19PM

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I've some great news for you so

As well as more people working, fewer people on the dole, incomes are also on the up.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0226/682994-earnings-cso-2014/

Win, win, win! :pac:

Averages, like credit-cards and shotguns, should be kept away from children, imbeciles and reporters, for much the same reasons.

super_furry · 26-02-2015 02:20PM

Can I interest anyone in Bulgarian holiday homes?

26-02-2015 02:40PM

super_furry wrote: »

Can I interest anyone in Bulgarian holiday homes?

lets go !!

26-02-2015 02:46PM

So what would make everyone happy.

A job for everyone who needs one even if it is min wage.

A job for everyone in the area they want and not on min wage.

A job for everyone who need one in the area they want and for the job to pay at least 50k and preferably located 10 minutes walk from there home.

I am convinced that Ireland is in Serious trouble

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