Farm accident stories...be careful folks!!

Kovu · 24-02-2015 6:33pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Oh yeah, lol, it's all a great laugh isn't it.

Chemical Byrne, I know it's a contentious subject and you're relatively new to Boards but I'd like to remind you that insulting other posters is not tolerated.
Attack the post, not the poster.

Kovu

Chemical Byrne · 24-02-2015 6:40pm

I'm done here. /follow

onyerbikepat · 24-02-2015 8:17pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Article in today's FI by Ann Fotzgearld. Do not often read her articles as find little of interest since John Shirley has gone. Maybe it is a gender thing but they are more into sucklers etc.

However she makes the point and I make the same myself it is the continual pressure on farm incomes, working alone and age are the main causes. It is alright to sugest carrot and stick but as with most it will hardly be possible to ne fining or cutting a farmers payment when he is in the grave. I was suprised that the most dangerous farms are dairy farms. however it is understandable in that most of these are full time and totall dependant on income from farming. She makes the point that with quota's gone this will put more pressure on farm incomes especially on farms that cannot expand.

IMO it really is a case of too tight margins and investment in anything is limited. Working alone a lot is another huge issue especially at calving time and slurry. This is not just a farming issue it is for workers in general. I see where big companies have subcontracted physical work to smaller companies and try to pust as much responsibility for H&S onto ordinary workers however they structure pay and travel time in such a way that it increases danger to the workers.

Was recently talking to a lad that was employed in such an operation. He was expected to cover the first 90 minutes travel time in both directions himself. He then had to sign each week that he takes an hours break every day. His average day was 12+ hours from generally about an 11 hour to 14 hour days. As he said he arrives home in the evening has the dinner a shower and goes to bed.

There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.

rangler1 · 24-02-2015 10:24pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.

Farmers have to be made aware of the stupidity of taking risks, it doesn't need training to see and fix a pto cover, pull a handbrake, anchor a ladder, stay way from agitating slurry. All the h+s officer can do is check the handbrake, the ladder,, the ptos, but they cant account for poor behaviour and it seems it has to be put in front of farmers on media day in day out

Ms. Chanandler Bong · 24-02-2015 10:28pm

dunlopwellies wrote: »

I don't suppose you have more info on this app or a link. I can't find if on App Store. It sounds like am excellent idea.
Thanks.

http://www.howtogeek.com/207325/what-you-can-do-with-your-iphone’s-health-app/

If you've downloaded iOS 8, it should have added an app to the screen that's a white box with a little red heart in the top right hand corner. This is the app that allows you to enter your emergency contact details.

Farmer Pudsey · 24-02-2015 10:38pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.

This is true of people working in offices, factory's retail area's etc. However there is a change outside of these area's. Employers are more and more using contractors in area's where workers are working by themselves or are involved in physical work. These employers more and more put responsability on the individual worker or on a team leader. As well bigger company's that have subcontracted out work expect it to cost the same or less than employing direct even thought contractor has to make a margin as well. As well lately talking to a lad that was unemployed looking for work in building area. Employers wanted him to a number of safety certs before he get a job. He had one that was running out in a few months. They wanted him to have a new one before they would give him a job.

All self employed have to look after there own personel H&S this is not just a farming issue. However the issue with farming are down to margin and working age IMO.

onyerbikepat · 24-02-2015 10:43pm

rangler1 wrote: »

Farmers have to be made aware of the stupidity of taking risks, it doesn't need training to see and fix a pto cover, pull a handbrake, anchor a ladder, stay way from agitating slurry. All the h+s officer can do is check the handbrake, the ladder,, the ptos, but they cant account for poor behaviour and it seems it has to be put in front of farmers on media day in day out

Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?

dzer2 · 24-02-2015 10:55pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?

Money

Farmer Pudsey · 24-02-2015 10:58pm

dzer2 wrote: »

Money

It all comes back to that

have2flushtwice · 25-02-2015 10:21am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?

if you were to put a rail and ladder on every shed, none of would be able to affoard it. "sure I never need to go up there" and the time you do is when you use the ladder. there are jobs I just don't do any more because they are too risky. it doesn't need to be done right no wand I leave it till another day when there is someone else there.

whelan2 · 25-02-2015 10:25am

have2flushtwice wrote: »

if you were to put a rail and ladder on every shed, none of would be able to affoard it. "sure I never need to go up there" and the time you do is when you use the ladder. there are jobs I just don't do any more because they are too risky. it doesn't need to be done right no wand I leave it till another day when there is someone else there.

that is the thing though, most farmers are on their own and do alot of things on their own , that is the root of alot of these accidents. I have a lad 1 or 2 days a week, he went on the beer on saturday and didnt turn up yesterday so i did all the jobs i was leaving til he came myself. Such is life.

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 10:39am

P45.

No one needs that shyte and he's putting you in a very difficult position

But on the other hand it is incredibly difficult to find anyone to work on a farm these days given the toughness of the work and rubbish pay....that's if you manage to get paid at all! (not referring to you, just in general mind!)

onyerbikepat · 25-02-2015 10:49am

Even a simple thing like keeping a mobile phone on you at all times, has saved a lot of lives, I'd say.

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 10:53am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Even a simple thing like keeping a mobile phone on you at all times, has saved a lot of lives, I'd say.

Man down alarms are used in a lot of industires where someone might have to work alone. These are usually stand alone units but surely in this day and age there would be some type of smart phone app that would fulfill the same function.

A phone is great but not much use if you hit your head and get knocked out. A man down app would make the call for you.

Edite: Here it is http://www.mandownapp.com/

ganmo · 25-02-2015 11:54am

Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person

whelan2 · 25-02-2015 11:56am

ganmo wrote: »

Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person

i think the most important thing is to tell someone what you are doing, even if theres no one around, a note on the table or a text , saying what you are doing and what time you will be back at

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 12:07pm

ganmo wrote: »

Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person

That's exactly what a man down alarm does. The stand alone units also work off the mobile phone network anyway. I know the smart phone app will send the GPS co-ordinates of the person who's down.

Tea 1000 · 25-02-2015 12:21pm

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Agree with pretty much everything you said, even if you do sound like a keyboard warrior on a high horse mission. The lad was talking about when he was a kid, not what he does today with his own kids (if any). Ireland has changed a lot in the intervening years and yes I know farming practices are still very poor when it comes to H&S but I don't know anyone nowadays that would let that litany of injuries happen to their kids on a farm.

One point however, of the 20 or so people killed on irish farms last year, how many were teenage drivers of fast tractors and/or heavy machinery? I don't have the stats but I'd say its a very low number. IMO the biggest at risk group is older farmers who don't 'see' the risk in their practices because they've done it forever. Also slatted houses seem to have become the number 1 risk on farms today. When I was growing up the biggest fear was always PTO's, I'd say they're a distant second or third place in the list of risk now

You might be right regarding the statistics of teenagers and big machines, but that shouldn't be the basis for excusing it. Put it another way, take for example a sensible 35 year old who drives a lot and has a very careful attitude, passed the test 18 years previously. They want to tow a trailer that has a GVW of greater than 750kgs. They need to go and get a special license now. But not only that, if the GVW of the bigger trailer combined with the GVW of the towing vehicle exceeds 3500kgs, then you need an artic license. That weight limit is easy to reach, the gross vehicle weight of a Land Cruiser must be over 2.5 tonnes, maybe more, that leaves very little left over for the trailer you're wanting to tow.
Yet somehow, a 16 year old can fill out a form and drive whatever they like so long as the towing vehicle is in the W class. And lets face it, there's some serious machinary in that category. It just doesn't make sense.
On a motorbike, there are cc limits until you are a certain age or have certain years experience. There should be a horse power limit on the W license in my opinion. And a weight limit on the towed item. If it takes an Artic driver a while to properly learn the dynamics of handling massive weight on a trailer, why do people think a 16 year old farmer instintively knows this and doesn't need anything?

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 12:40pm

Thanking isn't enough Tea 1000, I'm going to +100 that. I agree 100%. It is bonkers in this day and age.

A lad of 16 can drive a 80kph Fastract with a 30t excavator on a lowloader, the full length of which might well be slightly longer than an arctic lorry and is substantially less maneuverable due to having a drawbar but yet both are travelling at the same speed.

I truly believe this needs to be tackled. A hp limit is sort of meaningless as a 100hp tractor can tow a 40' bale trailer no bother. (the length of such a set up is proably illegal anyway, but shure what difference does it make since enforcement on agricultural vehicles is non existent). It should be based on GVW.
I think training should be mandatory, something like a CPC for agriculture. Perhaps there could be different levels for different categories. eg a small part time beef operation might only need training for smaller GVW as they might only be using a topper or bale grap or whatever as compared to a large arable contractor with a fleet of large top of the range machinery.
This is the way it is in construction, no training = no driving.

Fat chance of any of it happening though, it's political dynamite. Sure it wouldn't be enforced anyway, it's just when an accident happen's the persons paperwork will be looked into and the courts will throw the book at them as an example.

And as already suggested, farmers just haven't the financial capacity to implement any such policies.

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 12:44pm

it is in farmer's interests to self regulate safety in the industry as at least then they have some choice and control.

If thing's go on as they are with people dying from silly accidents, the stick approach will come down from government via extensive H&S regulation and enforcement.

Tea 1000 · 25-02-2015 1:07pm

I suppose part of the problem is the fact that anything that comes into legislation in this country will probably end up being overly complicated and very expensive. Farmers don't want extra expense (no one does), and no one could be bothered to find a cheap, yet effective solution.
Even a gradual change would work well I think. Limit 16 year olds to no towed trailer for the first year and no machine above a certain weight/HP/max speed. Then up that when you pass your car test to a more general W class machine. And maybe make it mandatory that anyone who wants to tow something with the W class must take the car trailer license test, or make sure anyone below a certain age can, so as not to overly hamper older farmers. Lets face it, a trailer license is useful to have about a farm anyway. They should add a safety test to the theory test for the W category on the license.
All these would be low enough cost to introduce and would go some way towards helping. It's an awful waste of life and quality of life to see the results of accidents that are easily preventable.
There are always going to be accidents, but there shouldn't be that many of the same old stuff that frequently.
It's like the arguement of road safety a few years back - over a million cars on the road, it's inevitable that some of them will bang into each other. Yes, maybe, but we have demonstrated that it's possible to change 450 deaths in a year to around 190. 20 farm deaths could easily be more like 8 with a little effort and thought.

Irishmale · 25-02-2015 1:43pm

Other industries self regulate - banks, drinks, law etc. it save hassle of legislators who have no idea what they are on about making up unworkable and inefficient rules.

The farming industry needs to embrace this. Where we fund an organisation similar to MEAS for 3 euro each and it saves us 100 euro a head in bull and red tape waiting for Brussels or the Dail to make decisions for us.

Nekarsulm · 25-02-2015 2:25pm

LexieOnRale wrote: »

To be fair I don't think its fair to blame the parents. I know I was my fathers shadow. You could not keep me inside. I was out under his arm the whole time, the poor man couldn't go to the bathroom without me. With the tractor, we were going to one of the fields and I guess he stopped to put diesel in it and bam - all it takes is a split second

There you go, Lexie, the first rule of the internet.

"Whatever you say, say nothing, when you talk about "you know what"":D

ganmo · 25-02-2015 2:42pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU2dbthx28Y

kowtow · 25-02-2015 5:13pm

On thing which occurred to me recently is that, whilst we make a big deal of our record on food safety it is only fantastic because we leave out the numerous deaths and serious injuries inflicted on those who produce it.

Food safety is often the excuse given when the supply chain is being handed on a plate to a few big corporates with power to screw the farm gate price down, or paperwork & regulation is added to the farm day... and yet the pressure on margins which follows is surely a factor in farm accidents.

At the end of the day it doesn't make much difference whether you die harvesting the food, or eating it - it's can't be called safe with a straight face.

gctest50 · 25-02-2015 5:52pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines.......

i doubt getting your tie caught up in this yoke would improve your day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ur0xA28Z2I

main difference is yer man probably isn't at that 7 days a week

and probably wasn't out at 3 oclock in the morning dragging animals out of trouble

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 6:03pm

Was talking to someone in work whose neighbour had a bad accident on the farm a few years back. Father and son were servicing a large power harrow. Son was underneath finishing off whatever bit of work and father didn't realise he was still there and turned on the PTO. Son was very very badly torn up, practically disembowelled from what I'm told. Somehow he survived. Appaently when he was in the ambulance whatever happened, hit a bump or something, but a lot of his innards including his liver partially fell out of his abdomen.

When serviceing anything, whoever is doing it should remove the key and perhaps keep it in their pocket or somewhere secure. But as with everything, easier said than done when you're under pressure.

Also, I friend of mine from college is missing one leg above the knee because he somehow became entrained in the workings of a diet feeder. I believe an angle grinder had to be handed in to him and he had to cut himself free of whatever part of the machine had ingested him.

Chemical Byrne · 25-02-2015 6:14pm

Does anyone remember that programm called Emergyency 999 or something?
One of the ones on it was where some fella in England somewhere was out baling silage and would occasionally have to dismount and climb the steps of the baler to adjust something or other while leaving the PTO engaged.
As is often the case he had done it 100s of times probably but this day thhings were wet and he slipped coming down the steps and his leg went into the pickup. He held on for dear life to the drawbar or whatever until the baler had wrenched his leg off at the knee. I presume the PTO had a cover otherwise he'd be wrapped around it too.
Anyway, fair play to the man, he somehow managed to maintain his composure and realised he would bleed out quickly so he made up a tourniquet using a length of twine and a spanner. He then got back in the tractor, phoned the wife to call an ambulance and started driving back towards the yard. He met the ambulance somewhere along the passage or the road.

A very lucky man to still be breathing. Many would not have been able to maintain composure between shock and pain and would have bled to death.

EDIT: Found it, fast forward to 04:00 minutes. It's been years since I saw it but I actually remembered it pretty accurately as it struck home with me at the time as I had often done a bit of baling for the father when I was 17 or so.
Actually he's Scottish.I thing the introduction makes 2 interesting points - 1 -he points out that when accidents happen on farms, the person is usually alone. 2 I was surprised to hear that in Britain there were only 65 deaths in that year given the size of the agriculture sector in Britain. It really shows how dangerous Irish farming practices are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrGrxH58Q-0

Kovu · 25-02-2015 6:36pm

999 was the show., Michael Buerk presented it. He's narrating something else recently as I remembered the voice instantly. We were always sat down as kids to watch it, my bother & I wanted to watch accidents on the tv & our parents highlighting dangers to us off the show. I still remember a lot of it, especially the ones to do with powerlines.

My father was laborer on a farm of a local man who was almost fatally injured with a pto so both him & I first hand experience of how a simple thing can affect the rest of your life & others. And yet I nearly throttled him when I arrived into the shed last winter to see him in the pen of a heifer after she had been stitched due to a difficult calving. I could see the heifer wasn't happy, circling in the pen & shaking her head yet dad was adamant that he could strug her for milk while she was standing in the pen. Gate was closed & latched as well. It was probably the first time I've chastised my father regarding farming but he admitted it was stupid what he was at afterwards. But it was easier, easier he said than putting her into the crush and handmilking her there. Jesus I'm even getting mad thinking about it!

dzer2 · 25-02-2015 6:49pm

Kovu wrote: »

999 was the show., Michael Buerk presented it. He's narrating something else recently as I remembered the voice instantly. We were always sat down as kids to watch it, my bother & I wanted to watch accidents on the tv & our parents highlighting dangers to us off the show. I still remember a lot of it, especially the ones to do with powerlines.

My father was laborer on a farm of a local man who was almost fatally injured with a pto so both him & I first hand experience of how a simple thing can affect the rest of your life & others. And yet I nearly throttled him when I arrived into the shed last winter to see him in the pen of a heifer after she had been stitched due to a difficult calving. I could see the heifer wasn't happy, circling in the pen & shaking her head yet dad was adamant that he could strug her for milk while she was standing in the pen. Gate was closed & latched as well. It was probably the first time I've chastised my father regarding farming but he admitted it was stupid what he was at afterwards. But it was easier, easier he said than putting her into the crush and handmilking her there. Jesus I'm even getting mad thinking about it!

Have a heading gate here between the 2 calving pens for that messing.

Kovu · 25-02-2015 6:51pm

dzer2 wrote: »

Have a heading gate here between the 2 calving pens for that messing.

So do we :rolleyes:

dzer2 · 25-02-2015 7:51pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Was talking to someone in work whose neighbour had a bad accident on the farm a few years back. Father and son were servicing a large power harrow. Son was underneath finishing off whatever bit of work and father didn't realise he was still there and turned on the PTO. Son was very very badly torn up, practically disembowelled from what I'm told. Somehow he survived. Appaently when he was in the ambulance whatever happened, hit a bump or something, but a lot of his innards including his liver partially fell out of his abdom.

This is not an accident it is down right stupidity. Never start up a machine if you cant see everyone thats around

onyerbikepat · 25-02-2015 8:03pm

dzer2 wrote: »

This is not an accident it is down right stupidity. Never start up a machine if you cant see everyone thats around

Jeez. He didn't know he was around. C'mon very easy for something like that to happen, when you think about it.

In industry, they call it Lockout-Tagout. Basically they put a lock on electric box etc and the guy inside in the machine servicing it has a key.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout-tagout

dzer2 · 25-02-2015 8:24pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Jeez. He didn't know he was around. C'mon very easy for something like that to happen, when you think about it.

In industry, they call it Lockout-Tagout. Basically they put a lock on electric box etc and the guy inside in the machine servicing it has a key.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockout-tagout

No. read the story the 2 of them were working on the machine.

Told a story on here a while back its where lockout tag out came from. Friend and workmate of mine killed when a floor worker tripped back in a whole electrical panel at 6 am

onyerbikepat · 25-02-2015 8:30pm

I heard that story when it happened at the time. What I heard was one of them came along and didn't realise that the other was in under the power harrow. He didn't even know he was servicing it.

dzer2 · 25-02-2015 8:35pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I heard that story when it happened at the time. What I heard was one of them came along and didn't realise that the other was in under the power harrow. He didn't even know he was servicing it.

Fair enough the OP said the 2 of them were working on the machine

Kovu · 25-02-2015 8:46pm

I don't know if this was shared yet but it does highlight some particular issues.
Appreciate the GAA getting behind this as well. Am on phone so hope this embeds.

Tonyandthewhale · 25-02-2015 8:50pm

Plenty of talk on here about the dangers of working alone. It's all well and good having a phone in your pocket but it's not much use if you're knocked out cold or pinned under an animal/piece of machinery and can't reach it. Likewise it's certainly a good idea to let people know where you are but it's not much use just hoping they'll come looking for you in the offchance when you've had an accident. A system needs to be put in place.

Only recently I've gotten into the sport of caving and they've got some nice safety procedures in place. For instance they have what's called a 'call-out'. That's where you call a pre-arranged contact just before you go underground and tell them where you're going and for how long and you give them an exact deadline of when you'll be back safe and sound on the surface. It's then your responsibility to get out of the cave before your deadline so you can call off the search-party. If you miss it someone automatically comes looking for you.
It's arranged this way because obviously you can't ring 999 when you're a mile underground but it's a nice idea all the same, not relying on the person in trouble to sound the alarm but instead relying on the fella who's alright to sound the all-clear.

frazzledhome · 25-02-2015 9:00pm

Kovu wrote: »

I don't know if this was shared yet but it does highlight some particular issues.
Appreciate the GAA getting behind this as well. Am on phone so hope this embeds.

Anyone know where the helmet worn by the last guy can be sourced? The ones we have are horrid yokes and I sick chasing lads to wear them.

gctest50 · 25-02-2015 9:09pm

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Plenty of talk on here about the dangers of working alone. It's all well and good having a phone in your pocket but it's not much use if you're knocked out cold or pinned under an animal/piece of machinery and can't reach it. ..........

man-down-alarms sense if you stop moving

- alarm, then start dialing numbers

standalone ones can do all sorts :

http://www.lonealert.co.uk/lone-worker-devices/man-down-plus

http://www.islesystems.com/products_dedicated.html

next-best-thing sorta yoke :

http://www.mandownapp.com/

loads more - ask someone who's used a few different kinds before you buy

.

ganmo · 26-02-2015 1:06am

frazzledhome wrote: »

Anyone know where the helmet worn by the last guy can be sourced? The ones we have are horrid yokes and I sick chasing lads to wear them.

Looks like a skateboard helmet
http://images.evo.com/imgp/1500/42330/244847/bell-sports-skateboard-helmet-flat-black.jpg
Should be able to get one in a bike shop

Zr105 · 26-02-2015 8:29am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You might be right regarding the statistics of teenagers and big machines, but that shouldn't be the basis for excusing it. Put it another way, take for example a sensible 35 year old who drives a lot and has a very careful attitude, passed the test 18 years previously. They want to tow a trailer that has a GVW of greater than 750kgs. They need to go and get a special license now. But not only that, if the GVW of the bigger trailer combined with the GVW of the towing vehicle exceeds 3500kgs, then you need an artic license. That weight limit is easy to reach, the gross vehicle weight of a Land Cruiser must be over 2.5 tonnes, maybe more, that leaves very little left over for the trailer you're wanting to tow.
Yet somehow, a 16 year old can fill out a form and drive whatever they like so long as the towing vehicle is in the W class. And lets face it, there's some serious machinary in that category. It just doesn't make sense.
On a motorbike, there are cc limits until you are a certain age or have certain years experience. There should be a horse power limit on the W license in my opinion. And a weight limit on the towed item. If it takes an Artic driver a while to properly learn the dynamics of handling massive weight on a trailer, why do people think a 16 year old farmer instintively knows this and doesn't need anything?

that bit is wrong. If you have an eb license you are allowed to pull a trailer of upto 3500kg behind the vehicle so long as the vehicle is rated to pull the weight. There aren't a massive pile of vehicles that are rated for the full 3.5ton tho, most are only 2.7. discoverys, defenders etc being some of the 3.5t rated. In the case of them the eb would allow you up on 5.5ton as most are around the 2ton+3.5ton trailer weight

manjou · 26-02-2015 8:37am

Near one yesterday with round bale.Had bale on spikes and cut net to drop in place just as finished cutting net bale fell apart into barrier could easily have been caught under it.

farawaygrass · 26-02-2015 10:15am

Zr105 wrote: »

that bit is wrong. If you have an eb license you are allowed to pull a trailer of upto 3500kg behind the vehicle so long as the vehicle is rated to pull the weight. There aren't a massive pile of vehicles that are rated for the full 3.5ton tho, most are only 2.7. discoverys, defenders etc being some of the 3.5t rated. In the case of them the eb would allow you up on 5.5ton as most are around the 2ton+3.5ton trailer weight

Ya that's how I understand it too. There is so much confusion with this, there should be something published in papers or something to explain. Think you summed it up pretty well though. The pajaro is 3.5 tonne rated I think. Also even if vehicles were rated higher I think all the hitches you see on livestock trailers are only rated to 3.5 aswell

Chemical Byrne · 26-02-2015 10:20am

Brother in law almost met his end yesterday.

He built a shed near trees a few yrs ago and the gutters get blocked with leaves often enough meaning water goes down the wall and wets the bales. I had advised him to prune the overhanging trees and install a gutter hedgehog to keep the leaves out. Wasn't done. And my sister had warned him against walking on the fibre cement roof to clear it but he's the type of fella who doesn't listen and is inclined to do the exact opposite to what he' been advised :mad:

Anyway for some reason he though by taking off his shoes and walking across the roof in his socks would protect him. He stepped back onto a skylight and nearly went through but somehow didn't.

Not farm related but another time we were cutting the grass around the house with a ride on mower and the chute got blocked. (crappy mower). He stuck his whole arm down the chute to pull out the blockage with the blades still going full tilt. I was like WTF! His arm was literally mm away from belts and pulleys too. He had also disabled the automatic cut out under the seat that knocks it off when you dismount of or capsize. Same day the deck got all clogged and we had to lift it up to clear it. I wanted to prop it off a few sturdy blocks but he just grabbed a flimsy enough bit of a branch to prop it up and then stuck his whole head and neck in under it, I thought he was crazy.
Another time cleaning the yard he was warned against going near a failed retaining wall that was in danger of falling. I hear scraping and I look around and guess what, he was right in under the butt of the wall cleaning away. ( i have since knocked down the wall for safety's sake)
The other week he needed to widen the hole in the slurry tank to fit in an agitator. Rightly so, my sister demanded that he not go up there until I arrived to basically stand over him doing it to make sure he didn't kill himself at it.

We've all kinda reached the conclusion that he's a bit of a liability.

Chemical Byrne · 26-02-2015 10:25am

farawaygrass wrote: »

Ya that's how I understand it too. There is so much confusion with this, there should be something published in papers or something to explain. Think you summed it up pretty well though. The pajaro is 3.5 tonne rated I think. Also even if vehicles were rated higher I think all the hitches you see on livestock trailers are only rated to 3.5 aswell

There was a time when you would not be surprised to see fellas pulling slurry tankers and round balers behind jeeps. There was almost a level of pride a fella had in saying how such a small car/jeep was able to pull such a large tanker.
Pulling things isn't the problem -- stopping them is.

Thankfully I haven't seen that sort of stupidity in a good while now.

vincenzolorenzo · 26-02-2015 10:26am

Complete minefield alright and half the lads checking on the roads don't know the full details of the licensing rules. AFAIK with a BE license the max trailer weight you can tow is 3.5t but the towing vehicle can also be up to 3.5t.

The usual stuff you hear from lads about twin axle trailers all needing BE license etc is nonsense as far as I can see. It all comes down to trailer and vehicle weight and what the manufacturer ratings are.

Chemical Byrne · 26-02-2015 10:33am

99% of what you hear from "lads" is 2nd or 3rd hand semi or uninformed bullshyte that originated from some fella sitting on the corner stool at the pub who read something about something in the Journal while half pissed.

Reggie. · 26-02-2015 10:35am

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Brother in law almost met his end yesterday.

He built a shed near trees a few yrs ago and the gutters get blocked with leaves often enough meaning water goes down the wall and wets the bales. I had advised him to prune the overhanging trees and install a gutter hedgehog to keep the leaves out. Wasn't done. And my sister had warned him against walking on the fibre cement roof to clear it but he's the type of fella who doesn't listen and is inclined to do the exact opposite to what he' been advised :mad:

Anyway for some reason he though by taking off his shoes and walking across the roof in his socks would protect him. He stepped back onto a skylight and nearly went through but somehow didn't.

Not farm related but another time we were cutting the grass around the house with a ride on mower and the chute got blocked. (crappy mower). He stuck his whole arm down the chute to pull out the blockage with the blades still going full tilt. I was like WTF! His arm was literally mm away from belts and pulleys too. He had also disabled the automatic cut out under the seat that knocks it off when you dismount of or capsize. Same day the deck got all clogged and we had to lift it up to clear it. I wanted to prop it off a few sturdy blocks but he just grabbed a flimsy enough bit of a branch to prop it up and then stuck his whole head and neck in under it, I thought he was crazy.
Another time cleaning the yard he was warned against going near a failed retaining wall that was in danger of falling. I hear scraping and I look around and guess what, he was right in under the butt of the wall cleaning away. ( i have since knocked down the wall for safety's sake)
The other week he needed to widen the hole in the slurry tank to fit in an agitator. Rightly so, my sister demanded that he not go up there until I arrived to basically stand over him doing it to make sure he didn't kill himself at it.

We've all kinda reached the conclusion that he's a bit of a liability.

Jaysus

And people wonder why there are deaths on farms

Chemical Byrne · 26-02-2015 10:42am

I know a lad who was delivering a load to a place and was to tip it into an underground reception pit with an auger to carry the stuff to silos. When opening the latches on the tailgate he made the mistake of not standing to the side and the tailgate popped open knocking him back into the pit with a sizable amount of the load falling in on top of him. Remember, there was an auger turning away at the bottom. I'm not sure what way the funeral went, certainly no wake anyway. Tupperware coffin.

Manual latches on tailgates should be done away with and we should use hydraulic ones that are either on their own spool or a simpler arrangement is to spur them off the tipping rams. It saves time too as no hopping up and down. Every weight bearing ram should be fitted with check valves.

Farm accident stories...be careful folks!!

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