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Farm accident stories...be careful folks!!

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  • Oh yeah, lol, it's all a great laugh isn't it.

    Chemical Byrne, I know it's a contentious subject and you're relatively new to Boards but I'd like to remind you that insulting other posters is not tolerated.
    Attack the post, not the poster.

    Kovu




  • I'm done here. /follow




  • Article in today's FI by Ann Fotzgearld. Do not often read her articles as find little of interest since John Shirley has gone. Maybe it is a gender thing but they are more into sucklers etc.

    However she makes the point and I make the same myself it is the continual pressure on farm incomes, working alone and age are the main causes. It is alright to sugest carrot and stick but as with most it will hardly be possible to ne fining or cutting a farmers payment when he is in the grave. I was suprised that the most dangerous farms are dairy farms. however it is understandable in that most of these are full time and totall dependant on income from farming. She makes the point that with quota's gone this will put more pressure on farm incomes especially on farms that cannot expand.

    IMO it really is a case of too tight margins and investment in anything is limited. Working alone a lot is another huge issue especially at calving time and slurry. This is not just a farming issue it is for workers in general. I see where big companies have subcontracted physical work to smaller companies and try to pust as much responsibility for H&S onto ordinary workers however they structure pay and travel time in such a way that it increases danger to the workers.

    Was recently talking to a lad that was employed in such an operation. He was expected to cover the first 90 minutes travel time in both directions himself. He then had to sign each week that he takes an hours break every day. His average day was 12+ hours from generally about an 11 hour to 14 hour days. As he said he arrives home in the evening has the dinner a shower and goes to bed.

    There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

    What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.




  • There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

    What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.

    Farmers have to be made aware of the stupidity of taking risks, it doesn't need training to see and fix a pto cover, pull a handbrake, anchor a ladder, stay way from agitating slurry. All the h+s officer can do is check the handbrake, the ladder,, the ptos, but they cant account for poor behaviour and it seems it has to be put in front of farmers on media day in day out




  • I don't suppose you have more info on this app or a link. I can't find if on App Store. It sounds like am excellent idea.
    Thanks.

    http://www.howtogeek.com/207325/what-you-can-do-with-your-iphone’s-health-app/

    If you've downloaded iOS 8, it should have added an app to the screen that's a white box with a little red heart in the top right hand corner. This is the app that allows you to enter your emergency contact details.


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  • There was a good letter in the Journal, last week I think. He was making the point that, when people are under pressure and tired they will take risks and short-cuts. He mentioned how priests in a seminar, under pressure to hand in their thesis, literally stepped out over a person in dire need in a pre-staged situation. Only one of them stopped to help.

    What gets to me though is how, in the media and even with the farm leaders, the blame is always put solely back on the farmer. Farmers can't be expected to be Health And Safety experts. Most large factories would now have full-time H&S people and workers have very little respossibility for their own safety. Why should it be any different with farmers. They are only human at the end of the day.

    This is true of people working in offices, factory's retail area's etc. However there is a change outside of these area's. Employers are more and more using contractors in area's where workers are working by themselves or are involved in physical work. These employers more and more put responsability on the individual worker or on a team leader. As well bigger company's that have subcontracted out work expect it to cost the same or less than employing direct even thought contractor has to make a margin as well. As well lately talking to a lad that was unemployed looking for work in building area. Employers wanted him to a number of safety certs before he get a job. He had one that was running out in a few months. They wanted him to have a new one before they would give him a job.

    All self employed have to look after there own personel H&S this is not just a farming issue. However the issue with farming are down to margin and working age IMO.




  • rangler1 wrote: »
    Farmers have to be made aware of the stupidity of taking risks, it doesn't need training to see and fix a pto cover, pull a handbrake, anchor a ladder, stay way from agitating slurry. All the h+s officer can do is check the handbrake, the ladder,, the ptos, but they cant account for poor behaviour and it seems it has to be put in front of farmers on media day in day out

    Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?




  • Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?

    Money




  • dzer2 wrote: »
    Money

    It all comes back to that




  • Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines. Ladders were replaced with raised platforms. Agitating slurry would never be allowed to do by a single person with no breathing apparatus and no strict procedures and training in place. So why are the above allowed in the farming community?

    if you were to put a rail and ladder on every shed, none of would be able to affoard it. "sure I never need to go up there" and the time you do is when you use the ladder. there are jobs I just don't do any more because they are too risky. it doesn't need to be done right no wand I leave it till another day when there is someone else there.


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  • if you were to put a rail and ladder on every shed, none of would be able to affoard it. "sure I never need to go up there" and the time you do is when you use the ladder. there are jobs I just don't do any more because they are too risky. it doesn't need to be done right no wand I leave it till another day when there is someone else there.
    that is the thing though, most farmers are on their own and do alot of things on their own , that is the root of alot of these accidents. I have a lad 1 or 2 days a week, he went on the beer on saturday and didnt turn up yesterday so i did all the jobs i was leaving til he came myself. Such is life.




  • P45.

    No one needs that shyte and he's putting you in a very difficult position

    But on the other hand it is incredibly difficult to find anyone to work on a farm these days given the toughness of the work and rubbish pay....that's if you manage to get paid at all! (not referring to you, just in general mind!)




  • Even a simple thing like keeping a mobile phone on you at all times, has saved a lot of lives, I'd say.




  • Even a simple thing like keeping a mobile phone on you at all times, has saved a lot of lives, I'd say.

    Man down alarms are used in a lot of industires where someone might have to work alone. These are usually stand alone units but surely in this day and age there would be some type of smart phone app that would fulfill the same function.

    A phone is great but not much use if you hit your head and get knocked out. A man down app would make the call for you.

    Edite: Here it is http://www.mandownapp.com/




  • Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

    A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

    In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person




  • ganmo wrote: »
    Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

    A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

    In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person
    i think the most important thing is to tell someone what you are doing, even if theres no one around, a note on the table or a text , saying what you are doing and what time you will be back at




  • ganmo wrote: »
    Wouldn't be the biggest fan of using the phone for everything. For two reasons phones run out of battery and need reception which at home is patchy at best.

    A signal device that would signal to a base that could alert someone by an alarm or if possible ring a set number(s).

    In an ideal world the base could also indicate the direction of the person

    That's exactly what a man down alarm does. The stand alone units also work off the mobile phone network anyway. I know the smart phone app will send the GPS co-ordinates of the person who's down.




  • Agree with pretty much everything you said, even if you do sound like a keyboard warrior on a high horse mission. The lad was talking about when he was a kid, not what he does today with his own kids (if any). Ireland has changed a lot in the intervening years and yes I know farming practices are still very poor when it comes to H&S but I don't know anyone nowadays that would let that litany of injuries happen to their kids on a farm.

    One point however, of the 20 or so people killed on irish farms last year, how many were teenage drivers of fast tractors and/or heavy machinery? I don't have the stats but I'd say its a very low number. IMO the biggest at risk group is older farmers who don't 'see' the risk in their practices because they've done it forever. Also slatted houses seem to have become the number 1 risk on farms today. When I was growing up the biggest fear was always PTO's, I'd say they're a distant second or third place in the list of risk now
    You might be right regarding the statistics of teenagers and big machines, but that shouldn't be the basis for excusing it. Put it another way, take for example a sensible 35 year old who drives a lot and has a very careful attitude, passed the test 18 years previously. They want to tow a trailer that has a GVW of greater than 750kgs. They need to go and get a special license now. But not only that, if the GVW of the bigger trailer combined with the GVW of the towing vehicle exceeds 3500kgs, then you need an artic license. That weight limit is easy to reach, the gross vehicle weight of a Land Cruiser must be over 2.5 tonnes, maybe more, that leaves very little left over for the trailer you're wanting to tow.
    Yet somehow, a 16 year old can fill out a form and drive whatever they like so long as the towing vehicle is in the W class. And lets face it, there's some serious machinary in that category. It just doesn't make sense.
    On a motorbike, there are cc limits until you are a certain age or have certain years experience. There should be a horse power limit on the W license in my opinion. And a weight limit on the towed item. If it takes an Artic driver a while to properly learn the dynamics of handling massive weight on a trailer, why do people think a 16 year old farmer instintively knows this and doesn't need anything?




  • Thanking isn't enough Tea 1000, I'm going to +100 that. I agree 100%. It is bonkers in this day and age.

    A lad of 16 can drive a 80kph Fastract with a 30t excavator on a lowloader, the full length of which might well be slightly longer than an arctic lorry and is substantially less maneuverable due to having a drawbar but yet both are travelling at the same speed.

    I truly believe this needs to be tackled. A hp limit is sort of meaningless as a 100hp tractor can tow a 40' bale trailer no bother. (the length of such a set up is proably illegal anyway, but shure what difference does it make since enforcement on agricultural vehicles is non existent). It should be based on GVW.
    I think training should be mandatory, something like a CPC for agriculture. Perhaps there could be different levels for different categories. eg a small part time beef operation might only need training for smaller GVW as they might only be using a topper or bale grap or whatever as compared to a large arable contractor with a fleet of large top of the range machinery.
    This is the way it is in construction, no training = no driving.

    Fat chance of any of it happening though, it's political dynamite. Sure it wouldn't be enforced anyway, it's just when an accident happen's the persons paperwork will be looked into and the courts will throw the book at them as an example.

    And as already suggested, farmers just haven't the financial capacity to implement any such policies.




  • it is in farmer's interests to self regulate safety in the industry as at least then they have some choice and control.

    If thing's go on as they are with people dying from silly accidents, the stick approach will come down from government via extensive H&S regulation and enforcement.


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  • I suppose part of the problem is the fact that anything that comes into legislation in this country will probably end up being overly complicated and very expensive. Farmers don't want extra expense (no one does), and no one could be bothered to find a cheap, yet effective solution.
    Even a gradual change would work well I think. Limit 16 year olds to no towed trailer for the first year and no machine above a certain weight/HP/max speed. Then up that when you pass your car test to a more general W class machine. And maybe make it mandatory that anyone who wants to tow something with the W class must take the car trailer license test, or make sure anyone below a certain age can, so as not to overly hamper older farmers. Lets face it, a trailer license is useful to have about a farm anyway. They should add a safety test to the theory test for the W category on the license.
    All these would be low enough cost to introduce and would go some way towards helping. It's an awful waste of life and quality of life to see the results of accidents that are easily preventable.
    There are always going to be accidents, but there shouldn't be that many of the same old stuff that frequently.
    It's like the arguement of road safety a few years back - over a million cars on the road, it's inevitable that some of them will bang into each other. Yes, maybe, but we have demonstrated that it's possible to change 450 deaths in a year to around 190. 20 farm deaths could easily be more like 8 with a little effort and thought.




  • Other industries self regulate - banks, drinks, law etc. it save hassle of legislators who have no idea what they are on about making up unworkable and inefficient rules.

    The farming industry needs to embrace this. Where we fund an organisation similar to MEAS for 3 euro each and it saves us 100 euro a head in bull and red tape waiting for Brussels or the Dail to make decisions for us.




  • To be fair I don't think its fair to blame the parents. I know I was my fathers shadow. You could not keep me inside. I was out under his arm the whole time, the poor man couldn't go to the bathroom without me. With the tractor, we were going to one of the fields and I guess he stopped to put diesel in it and bam - all it takes is a split second


    There you go, Lexie, the first rule of the internet.

    "Whatever you say, say nothing, when you talk about "you know what"":D




  • On thing which occurred to me recently is that, whilst we make a big deal of our record on food safety it is only fantastic because we leave out the numerous deaths and serious injuries inflicted on those who produce it.

    Food safety is often the excuse given when the supply chain is being handed on a plate to a few big corporates with power to screw the farm gate price down, or paperwork & regulation is added to the farm day... and yet the pressure on margins which follows is surely a factor in farm accidents.

    At the end of the day it doesn't make much difference whether you die harvesting the food, or eating it - it's can't be called safe with a straight face.




  • Well to use your examples. In industry, PTO's would not be tolerated. I have never seen a PTO type spinning shaft in industrial machines.......

    i doubt getting your tie caught up in this yoke would improve your day




    main difference is yer man probably isn't at that 7 days a week

    and probably wasn't out at 3 oclock in the morning dragging animals out of trouble




  • Was talking to someone in work whose neighbour had a bad accident on the farm a few years back. Father and son were servicing a large power harrow. Son was underneath finishing off whatever bit of work and father didn't realise he was still there and turned on the PTO. Son was very very badly torn up, practically disembowelled from what I'm told. Somehow he survived. Appaently when he was in the ambulance whatever happened, hit a bump or something, but a lot of his innards including his liver partially fell out of his abdomen.

    When serviceing anything, whoever is doing it should remove the key and perhaps keep it in their pocket or somewhere secure. But as with everything, easier said than done when you're under pressure.

    Also, I friend of mine from college is missing one leg above the knee because he somehow became entrained in the workings of a diet feeder. I believe an angle grinder had to be handed in to him and he had to cut himself free of whatever part of the machine had ingested him.




  • Does anyone remember that programm called Emergyency 999 or something?
    One of the ones on it was where some fella in England somewhere was out baling silage and would occasionally have to dismount and climb the steps of the baler to adjust something or other while leaving the PTO engaged.
    As is often the case he had done it 100s of times probably but this day thhings were wet and he slipped coming down the steps and his leg went into the pickup. He held on for dear life to the drawbar or whatever until the baler had wrenched his leg off at the knee. I presume the PTO had a cover otherwise he'd be wrapped around it too.
    Anyway, fair play to the man, he somehow managed to maintain his composure and realised he would bleed out quickly so he made up a tourniquet using a length of twine and a spanner. He then got back in the tractor, phoned the wife to call an ambulance and started driving back towards the yard. He met the ambulance somewhere along the passage or the road.

    A very lucky man to still be breathing. Many would not have been able to maintain composure between shock and pain and would have bled to death.

    EDIT: Found it, fast forward to 04:00 minutes. It's been years since I saw it but I actually remembered it pretty accurately as it struck home with me at the time as I had often done a bit of baling for the father when I was 17 or so.
    Actually he's Scottish.I thing the introduction makes 2 interesting points - 1 -he points out that when accidents happen on farms, the person is usually alone. 2 I was surprised to hear that in Britain there were only 65 deaths in that year given the size of the agriculture sector in Britain. It really shows how dangerous Irish farming practices are.




  • 999 was the show., Michael Buerk presented it. He's narrating something else recently as I remembered the voice instantly. We were always sat down as kids to watch it, my bother & I wanted to watch accidents on the tv & our parents highlighting dangers to us off the show. I still remember a lot of it, especially the ones to do with powerlines.

    My father was laborer on a farm of a local man who was almost fatally injured with a pto so both him & I first hand experience of how a simple thing can affect the rest of your life & others. And yet I nearly throttled him when I arrived into the shed last winter to see him in the pen of a heifer after she had been stitched due to a difficult calving. I could see the heifer wasn't happy, circling in the pen & shaking her head yet dad was adamant that he could strug her for milk while she was standing in the pen. Gate was closed & latched as well. It was probably the first time I've chastised my father regarding farming but he admitted it was stupid what he was at afterwards. But it was easier, easier he said than putting her into the crush and handmilking her there. Jesus I'm even getting mad thinking about it!


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  • Kovu wrote: »
    999 was the show., Michael Buerk presented it. He's narrating something else recently as I remembered the voice instantly. We were always sat down as kids to watch it, my bother & I wanted to watch accidents on the tv & our parents highlighting dangers to us off the show. I still remember a lot of it, especially the ones to do with powerlines.

    My father was laborer on a farm of a local man who was almost fatally injured with a pto so both him & I first hand experience of how a simple thing can affect the rest of your life & others. And yet I nearly throttled him when I arrived into the shed last winter to see him in the pen of a heifer after she had been stitched due to a difficult calving. I could see the heifer wasn't happy, circling in the pen & shaking her head yet dad was adamant that he could strug her for milk while she was standing in the pen. Gate was closed & latched as well. It was probably the first time I've chastised my father regarding farming but he admitted it was stupid what he was at afterwards. But it was easier, easier he said than putting her into the crush and handmilking her there. Jesus I'm even getting mad thinking about it!


    Have a heading gate here between the 2 calving pens for that messing.


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