Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I heard he dresses like that all the time.

If you can rock the look, wear it.

Hagz wrote: »

Well Rob Kearney plays full-back not outside centre. And when Ronan O'Gara played he was an out-half. That's probably the crux of it.

No the crux is 'perceived wisdom', you've missed my point completely.

Hagz wrote: »

It appeared to me as though your point was that players like Kearney and O'Gara got a pass on their defensive shortcomings, whereas Earls doesn't. I responded by pointing out that it probably has something to do with the fact that 13 is the most important position defensively whereas the defensive responsibilities of a 15 and a 10 are far less important.

Sorry, maybe I could have worded it better. My point is that other players have 'perceived frailties' but they don't seem to get the same amount of jib as Earls does (at least on here anyway) and get cut far more slack. He's not a poor defender by any means. How many games has Fitz played 13 at out of interest for Ireland? The guy has been injured for so long I genuinely can't remember much of him. He really could do with an uninterrupted season a la Felix Jones

leakyboots wrote: »

There's plenty of widely held opinions. Zebo is lazy. Cronin can't throw. Kearney can't tackle. Duncan Williams is the the worst player ever to play the pro game. The Wolfhounds game was a cobbled together team who had a collective stinker. I don't think many emerged from it with credit in the bank.

I didn't see all of it cos I had someone's feckin' kids in my house running around me (!) so can't comment on Earls mistake, but from what I have seen of Earls since he came back he's bang on form. Definitely worth a bench slot. Same can be said of Fitz.

I don't see why Felix is there, Payne is not doing it for me and (whisper it) Bowe is not up to his usual standard (he gets a pass though)

A lot of those widely held opinions have a good grounding in fact, even if some people take them to extremes. If a 13 that wasn't Payne or Henshaw had to start a game tomorrow id have Cave and Fitz ahead of earls, that's my point.

I think Bowe has done everything he's done very well to be honest, we're a much lesser team without him

Kanrith wrote: »

I think Bowe has performed well for us. He hasn't had many opportunities with ball in hand but without him our kick-chase would be far less potent. For a large part of the France match, our tactics seemed to be to box-kick for Bowe to regather, in which he did very well. He also collected possession from many of our restarts, giving us territory in the French half. None of our back three have been setting the matches alight so far, but Bowe has been very effective in what he has done.

Bowe was brilliant in the air. He's one of the most effective backs in the world game at regathering restarts and contesting kick chase.
I'v noticed Irish rugby debate can be extremely conservative. We hold singular defensive errors over players heads for many years "Do you remember his missed tackle on Player X against Team Y back in 2011?"
I think people hold defensive capability as some black and white thing that should exclude a player from international level or from playing certain positions.
If a player is making a lot of defensive errors fair enough, but it usually isn't the case. A player can impact the scoreboard at both ends of the field we have to remember.

davegrohl48 wrote: »

Bowe was brilliant in the air. He's one of the most effective backs in the world game at regathering restarts and contesting kick chase.
I'v noticed Irish rugby debate can be extremely conservative. We hold singular defensive errors over players heads for many years "Do you remember his missed tackle on Player X against Team Y back in 2011?"
I think people hold defensive capability as some black and white thing that should exclude a player from international level or from playing certain positions.
If a player is making a lot of defensive errors fair enough, but it usually isn't the case. A player can impact the scoreboard at both ends of the field we have to remember.

While it is the nature of the beast that people tend to remember the glaring errors and outstanding attacks I don't think that it's fair to suggest that opinions don't change. How many people would believe me if I told them that BOD was a poor defender when he first arrived on the scene? What about Fitz - in his first year he wasn't much better than a revolving door. A few more might remember that d'Arcy was the original non-tackling fullback for his first couple of years with Leinster but not that many. A recent example of opinion changing is in respect of Zebo. A year ago, he was the cause celebre that many of us were wary of because although his potential was obvious his contributions to a game were very narrow. He's far from the finished article now but it's been very pleasing to see the change in his game over the past year. He's really been getting stuck into all aspects of the game and now looks like the kind of guy who if his game continues to develop could win 100+ caps. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who has changed their opinion on the presence of Zebo in the side since last year.

On Earls, the reason that many of us are concerned about him at 13 is that he consistently showed an inability to think well under pressure. He would make a number of fairly basic errors that his physical gifts would bail him out of for Munster but weren't sufficient at international level. I'd be a bit interested to see how he went under Schmidt for Ireland because I think that Schmidt requires a much more detailed preparation which leads to a smaller cognitive load in a game which might just suit Earls.

In the end though I think that Schmidt decided on his centre pairing for the world cup over the summer. He knows that these partnerships take time to gel. I imagine that he picked his 2 based on size, injury profile and potential (not necessarily in that order). Fitz, Earls, Marshall and Olding have poor injury records over the last few years and would require gambling on their availability. It makes more sense to invest in a partnership that can have an extended run. I'll be astonished if we see any serious experimenting with alternatives. The partnership is a work in progress and although I thought I could see some signs of improvement in attack against France there's still huge scope for further improvement and I think that they'll be given the space to make those improvements.

Clearlier wrote: »

While it is the nature of the beast that people tend to remember the glaring errors and outstanding attacks I don't think that it's fair to suggest that opinions don't change. How many people would believe me if I told them that BOD was a poor defender when he first arrived on the scene? What about Fitz - in his first year he wasn't much better than a revolving door. A few more might remember that d'Arcy was the original non-tackling fullback for his first couple of years with Leinster but not that many. A recent example of opinion changing is in respect of Zebo. A year ago, he was the cause celebre that many of us were wary of because although his potential was obvious his contributions to a game were very narrow. He's far from the finished article now but it's been very pleasing to see the change in his game over the past year. He's really been getting stuck into all aspects of the game and now looks like the kind of guy who if his game continues to develop could win 100+ caps. I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one who has changed their opinion on the presence of Zebo in the side since last year.

100% agree. Another example is Devin Toner. I remember is first few seasons at Leinster and thinking this guy is useless. That they were only picking him for his height and that apart from lineouts, he did nothing. I never thought he would be an international class lock. Now, he is arguably the best lock in the country and a guaranteed starter.

In regards to the midfield, I think the Payne/Henshaw combo is a perfect one for the match against England. Their midfield is good on attack and weak defensively from what I've seen. Payne and Henshaw have the defensive ability to shut them down and will cause them problems in attack as well.

Actually I think all of England's outside backs (apart from Brown) are weak defensively and Ireland could have a real go at them.

molloyjh wrote: »

For all the talk of whether other players are or are not good enough for positions I have to say I have developed some serious man love for one of the squad this season. Henshaw has been outstanding. I was watching the Italy game with thomond and I lost count of the number of times one of us simply said "Henshaw again!". To do what he does at provincial level is one thing, but to hit the performance levels he has so quickly at international level is incredibly impressive. Tap and Go have a piece on his role in the France game...

http://tapandgorugby.com/2015/02/17/henshaw-making-impact/

Amen to this. One of the standout moments for me on Saturday was Henshaw's tackle on Fofana after the kick-chase ended up with him, Henshaw was right up on him and took him out. He seems to be everywhere at times, and I've no doubt about his defensive capabilities. I'd love to see him get some ball in attack to see what he can do.

molloyjh wrote: »

For all the talk of whether other players are or are not good enough for positions I have to say I have developed some serious man love for one of the squad this season. Henshaw has been outstanding. I was watching the Italy game with thomond and I lost count of the number of times one of us simply said "Henshaw again!". To do what he does at provincial level is one thing, but to hit the performance levels he has so quickly at international level is incredibly impressive. Tap and Go have a piece on his role in the France game...

http://tapandgorugby.com/2015/02/17/henshaw-making-impact/

Henshaw is close to being if not the Irish player of the tournament so far just a pity we haven't seen him or Ireland being more creative.

i think our backline looks solid to me, people have short memories there were games i can remember in the last few years where Driscoll and D'arcy were put under a lot of pressure and gaps appreared in their defence. so far this centre pairing have held firm against all-comers.

typhoony wrote: »

i think our backline looks solid to me, people have short memories there were games i can remember in the last few years where Driscoll and D'arcy were put under a lot of pressure and gaps appreared in their defence. so far this centre pairing have held firm against all-comers.

Agree - no worries about our centres defensively. It's in attack I have my doubts although they works perfectly for the game we currently playing as it's based around a good kick chase and good defence - force opposition to mistakes and give away penalties.
Still would like to see someone like Madigan 12 and Henshaw 13 OR Henshaw 12 and Fitzgerald / Earls 13 but as we are not looking to make breaks or offload, I understand why JS isn't looking to start these guys.
One player that sums up the way Ireland are playing is Zebo. After the game, people talked about how good his defence was and how it has improved. Crazy to think that someone with so much flair didn't threaten once with ball in hand in 80 minutes!