2015 RBS Six Nations General Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Fireball07 · 17-02-2015 12:21AM

England

In fairness, all 3 of those Italian players named were very good. Parisse was absolutely class, how many Italian restarts did he claim back? Scored a try, and there was a few times where he took the ball when isolated, managed to stay on his feet, eke out a few yards and not go to ground until he had support. Biagi's work rate was superb and Morisi got 2 great tries.

Shero1985 · 17-02-2015 02:04AM

England

Any hope for Ireland that Mike Brown won't be fit to play?

Will Lawes Or Launch be back?

rrpc · 17-02-2015 08:42AM

England

Shero1985 wrote: »

Any hope for Ireland that Mike Brown won't be fit to play?

Will Lawes Or Launch be back?

If you look at the Italian tries, they were all relatively soft. England missed 26 tackles in that match which is a pretty awful stat, they missed 14 against Wales. Luther Burrell seems to miss an average of two per game.

Rather than kicking the ball in Mike Brown's direction; remember that goal keeper's save he made last year? We might be better taking them on in midfield.

davegrohl48 · 17-02-2015 09:15AM

Shero1985 wrote: »

Any hope for Ireland that Mike Brown won't be fit to play?

Will Lawes Or Launch be back?

Apparently he will play, got two days off. Concussion protocols being observed but will be available to play again Ireland.
I don't understand how a player can be knocked out cold and play again so quickly.
BTW you shouldn't be hoping for the non appearance of a player due to injury/fitness.

Hunterbiker · 17-02-2015 10:01AM

rrpc wrote: »

If you look at the Italian tries, they were all relatively soft..

3 tries away from home is some achievment in anyone's book (including Ireland's).To suggest that these scores were 'soft' (and so not as good) is doing the Italians a dis-service.

Italy (and especially those named) took their chances.

total former · 17-02-2015 10:06AM

England

Hadn't noticed but Finn Russell has been cited. He'd be a massive loss for Scotland.

English Lurker · 17-02-2015 10:11AM

They're expecting Brown back, but he might not make it, in which case it's Goode.

Lawes might be fit. He's meant to be back around mid-late February i.e. now but I haven't heard an update recently. Launchbury is out for the whole season though.

England's defence was pretty complacent and short of intensity for that match, but Morisi looked awesome.

Burrell is something of a defensive liability, but I'd be wary of judging England by missed tackle stats. England a very aggressive blitz that will happily throw two or three players at a man to chop him down before the gain line - the style results in plenty of misses but is effective. The best place to attack England, if you can, is out wide - England play very narrow - and with the chip as we rarely have a sweeper.

Podge_irl · 17-02-2015 10:36AM

Hunterbiker wrote: »

3 tries away from home is some achievment in anyone's book (including Ireland's).To suggest that these scores were 'soft' (and so not as good) is doing the Italians a dis-service.

Italy (and especially those named) took their chances.

The implication that were soft is more to do with commenting on England's ropey defence that Ireland can look to take advantage of.

.ak · 17-02-2015 10:48AM

total former wrote: »

Hadn't noticed but Finn Russell has been cited. He'd be a massive loss for Scotland.

For what?

Zzippy · 17-02-2015 10:52AM

England

.ak wrote: »

For what?

The tackle on the player in the air that he was binned for I'd say...

Edit: Yep

17-02-2015 11:10AM

England

Zzippy wrote: »

The tackle on the player in the air that he was binned for I'd say...

Edit: Yep

Saw it at the time and thought it was very very soft.

Viewing again now I can't believe he has been cited for that.

.ak · 17-02-2015 11:53AM

Zzippy wrote: »

The tackle on the player in the air that he was binned for I'd say...

Edit: Yep

Are you serious? I presume Davies was cited also then?

awec · 17-02-2015 11:55AM

Davies was nowhere near as bad. I actually think the Scotland player milked that one a bit. He landed on his feet and wasn't rotated at all.

.ak · 17-02-2015 12:14PM

awec wrote: »

Davies was nowhere near as bad. I actually think the Scotland player milked that one a bit. He landed on his feet and wasn't rotated at all.

He wrapped his arms around a player in the air and didn't contest for the ball. I don't care what the Scottish player did, for me Davies was waaaay worse. He intentionally took a man out in the air. Beggar just ran into Russell, who did his best to try and avoid taking him out once he noticed him.

jacothelad · 17-02-2015 12:26PM

I see Ritchie Gray is out for the rest of the season with an arm injury.

Zzippy · 17-02-2015 12:58PM

England

.ak wrote: »

He wrapped his arms around a player in the air and didn't contest for the ball. I don't care what the Scottish player did, for me Davies was waaaay worse. He intentionally took a man out in the air. Beggar just ran into Russell, who did his best to try and avoid taking him out once he noticed him.

Ah you can't say Biggar ran into Russell. He contested a high ball, got great height in his jump and won the contest. Russell pulled out of the contest but was too late and in doing so took Biggar's legs in the air by colliding with him and caused him to land on his upper body/head - it was far worse than Davies tackle - he actually looked like he was trying to contest for the ball and Beattie wasn't tipped past the horizontal by his contact.

You can say Russell did his best to avoid him but you can also argue he has a duty of care to other players and he didn't observe that by deciding too late to pull out of contesting the ball.

AFAIK refs have been instructed to take the outcome into account - Biggar could have sustained a serious injury the way he landed whereas Beattie landed feet first, and landing head first is always going to be treated more seriously. That's why the Russell tackle is being looked at again.

errlloyd · 17-02-2015 01:03PM

England

Russell really shouldn't get banned for that. I tend to side with Ak on this one.

Davies actually tackled a player in the air, Russell was just standing in the wrong place. The result was completely different, but that's not because of the action at all, it's just because the jumpers got different height. If Beattie had got as high as Biggar, and if he was as light as Biggar then he would have landed on his head. Similarly if Biggar had been Beattie I think he would have got hardly any air time and it wouldn't have been a penalty.

.ak · 17-02-2015 01:10PM

Yep for me Davies wraps his arm around the player, he's tackling him in the air, it's clear cut imo.

Zzippy · 17-02-2015 01:24PM

England

If you tackle a player in the air by wrapping the upper body there's a low likelihood of injury. If you tackle someone in the air by taking their legs out that's the same as a tip tackle but from a much greater height, so it's much more dangerous. I see the point that he didn't do it deliberately and tried to pull out, but the citing officials probably do have to clamp down on the latter to set an example.

.ak · 17-02-2015 01:29PM

Zzippy wrote: »

If you tackle a player in the air by wrapping the upper body there's a low likelihood of injury. If you tackle someone in the air by taking their legs out that's the same as a tip tackle but from a much greater height, so it's much more dangerous. I see the point that he didn't do it deliberately and tried to pull out, but the citing officials probably do have to clamp down on the latter to set an example.

For me that's madness. One guy intentionally takes a player out in the air, the other guy doesn't, but the other guy is somehow more culpable. I thought what Davies did was dangerous in the extreme.

errlloyd · 17-02-2015 01:30PM

England

Zzippy wrote: »

If you tackle a player in the air by wrapping the upper body there's a low likelihood of injury. If you tackle someone in the air by taking their legs out that's the same as a tip tackle but from a much greater height, so it's much more dangerous. I see the point that he didn't do it deliberately and tried to pull out, but the citing officials probably do have to clamp down on the latter to set an example.

I think that he should get cited and not banned. I am sick of the citing hearing being used as a sentencing hearing. I think it's worth having an official chat about what happened, putting something on his record. Discussing why this isn't a ban but what could have made it a ban.

b.gud · 17-02-2015 01:33PM

England

Here are the 2 incidents for comparison

Zzippy · 17-02-2015 01:36PM

England

.ak wrote: »

For me that's madness. One guy intentionally takes a player out in the air, the other guy doesn't, but the other guy is somehow more culpable. I thought what Davies did was dangerous in the extreme.

I don't know if Davies was intentional, he put his right hand up as if he was contesting the ball and ended up with his left hand pulling the jersey, I'd say it was instinctive and he didn't try to take the man out. As instinctive as Russell pulling out and trying not to get a boot in the head. You could say neither were intentional, but the refs do look at the outcome.

errlloyd wrote: »

I think that he should get cited and not banned. I am sick of the citing hearing being used as a sentencing hearing. I think it's worth having an official chat about what happened, putting something on his record. Discussing why this isn't a ban but what could have made it a ban.

I think it does need clarification re intent, duty of care, likelihood of injury, but I don't see him not getting at least a week or two if they're going to be consistent (Jared Payne incident etc)

Webbs · 17-02-2015 01:42PM

.ak wrote: »

Yep for me Davies wraps his arm around the player, he's tackling him in the air, it's clear cut imo.

Davies made no attempt to wrap his arm around Beattie. He just had his right arm stuck up in the air.
The slight nudge from the scottish player pushed him a step further than he intended I would say after seeing the video, whereas Finn showed a lack of duty of care in mistiming his challenge. In both cases YC should suffice and move on. There was no malice in either case

sydthebeat · 17-02-2015 01:59PM

England

if russell is banned, scotland are in serious trouble.

Duncan Weir is out of the 6 nations... so is ruaridh jackson.

so thats leaves matt scott who is predomiantly a centre and greig tonks, who is a utility player.
maybe Tom Heathcote will be brough in

maybe Laidlaw will switch to 10 with the exciting, but very inexperienced, Hildago Clyne at 9

although its a home game against italy and one theyd expect to win, its still most likely a wood spoon play off again.

rrpc · 17-02-2015 02:08PM

England

Webbs wrote: »

Davies made no attempt to wrap his arm around Beattie. He just had his right arm stuck up in the air.
The slight nudge from the scottish player pushed him a step further than he intended I would say after seeing the video, whereas Finn showed a lack of duty of care in mistiming his challenge. In both cases YC should suffice and move on. There was no malice in either case

I'd agree except that the outcome from Russell's challenge could well have been worse and he'll probably get a ban. Davies challenge was somewhat the same as Russell's but was not as dangerous and was barely a yellow.

Zzippy · 17-02-2015 02:15PM

England

Having looked at it again, I'd say Russell is lucky Biggar got up quickly and didn't make a meal of it. If he had the ref could quite possibly have issued a red card. No difference between that challenge and Payne's last year except for the outcome

total former · 17-02-2015 03:49PM

England

Mike Brown still suffering concussion symptoms, won't train at all this week.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/17/mike-brown-england-ireland-six-nations-concussion

Would be a huge blow to England.

Hagz · 17-02-2015 04:07PM

England

Call me old fashioned but I don't think either of them should be cited and I don't think either of the incidents warranted a yellow card. Certainly Davie's was a penalty, but that's it for me. Personally I think they're coming down too hard on this area.

rrpc · 17-02-2015 04:18PM

England

Hagz wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I don't think either of them should be cited and I don't think either of the incidents warranted a yellow card. Certainly Davie's was a penalty, but that's it for me. Personally I think they're coming down too hard on this area.

I don't. It's a very dangerous situation and there have been a lot of cynical 'tackles' of guys in the air. Dave Kearney was on the end of one of them not so long ago.

2015 RBS Six Nations General Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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