Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

CatFromHue · 07-02-2015 10:11PM

The ice pack on his hamstring would be standard and wouldn't be related to the seriousness of the injury.

aimee1 · 07-02-2015 10:11PM

Fireball07 wrote: »

ROG is very good, I think... not saying everything he says is right, but it is interesting to hear his insights.

The stuff about the fear of relegation possibly having an impact upon the psychology of the French players was very interesting, particularly among the likes of the Castres players they have now who are involved in a relegation. I don't know if there is substance to it, but it is an interesting theory. I remember ROG seemed very frustrated at how some French teams seem to just give up away from home, and how their mindset going into away games is quite defeatist.

ROG, Horgan, O'Shea are good because they are involved in the game. Even Pope is good because he forms intelligent opinions with reasoning, Hook just spouts crap all the time. It would be good to have Horgan or COS in place of Hook.

errlloyd · 07-02-2015 10:13PM

Thought Zebo was great today. Can't see the backline changing for next week bar sexy. I presume Heaslip will come in, hopefully SOB. Marty Moore might start? Otherwise as your were.

David900 · 07-02-2015 10:16PM

Watching the game today I couldn't help thinking I'd love to see Fitz in beside Henshaw. Payne was good good, had a couple of nice touches and was pretty solid in defence but I think Fitz offers a lot more offensively and also arguably a better defender at 13. I think his form for Leinster warrants inclusion too.

I can see it from Joe's perspective, that he wants to bed down a partnership and it worked pretty well in the Autumn but as as many Ulstr fans would mention, Payne's best position isn't 13!

Clareman · 07-02-2015 10:23PM

Defensively wise I think Henshaw/Payne are our best partnership, unfortunately at the moment that is limiting our attacking options a lot, I have no doubt that the likes of Luke F or Madigan could bring a lot to our game attack wise but that would mean we'd be sacrificing in defense, considering we had a rookie 10 starting today I think it was a no-brainer to have Henshaw/Payne in there, having a guy coming back after 3 months with concussion means I'd be surprised if there's any change there next week, especially with the battering rams the French call centers.

aimee1 · 07-02-2015 10:24PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Thought Zebo was great today. Can't see the backline changing for next week bar sexy. I presume Heaslip will come in, hopefully SOB. Marty Moore might start? Otherwise as your were.

I cant see too many changes. We need some continuity in the team. I do think we might see a backrow of POM, Jordi and Heaslip. TOD did very well and took his try well but [no disrespect to TOD] Masi's tackle attempt was pathetic.

David900 wrote: »

Watching the game today I couldn't help thinking I'd love to see Fitz in beside Henshaw. Payne was good good, had a couple of nice touches and was pretty solid in defence but I think Fitz offers a lot more offensively and also arguably a better defender at 13. I think his form for Leinster warrants inclusion too.

I can see it from Joe's perspective, that he wants to bed down a partnership and it worked pretty well in the Autumn but as as many Ulstr fans would mention, Payne's best position isn't 13!

I agree with this, but think Fitz wont feature much which is a pity because I think his form merits a start

David900 · 07-02-2015 10:25PM

Clareman wrote: »

Defensively wise I think Henshaw/Payne are our best partnership, unfortunately at the moment that is limiting our attacking options a lot, I have no doubt that the likes of Luke F or Madigan could bring a lot to our game attack wise but that would mean we'd be sacrificing in defense, considering we had a rookie 10 starting today I think it was a no-brainer to have Henshaw/Payne in there, having a guy coming back after 3 months with concussion means I'd be surprised if there's any change there next week, especially with the battering rams the French call centers.

Fits is a fantastic defender at outside centre imo. I don't think swapping him for Payne would be a negative at all.

vienne86 · 07-02-2015 10:25PM

Clareman wrote: »

Defensively wise I think Henshaw/Payne are our best partnership, unfortunately at the moment that is limiting our attacking options a lot, I have no doubt that the likes of Luke F or Madigan could bring a lot to our game attack wise but that would mean we'd be sacrificing in defense, considering we had a rookie 10 starting today I think it was a no-brainer to have Henshaw/Payne in there, having a guy coming back after 3 months with concussion means I'd be surprised if there's any change there next week, especially with the battering rams the French call centers.

Fitz is pretty good in defense too.

Tox56 · 07-02-2015 10:27PM

Clareman wrote: »

Defensively wise I think Henshaw/Payne are our best partnership, unfortunately at the moment that is limiting our attacking options a lot, I have no doubt that the likes of Luke F or Madigan could bring a lot to our game attack wise but that would mean we'd be sacrificing in defense, considering we had a rookie 10 starting today I think it was a no-brainer to have Henshaw/Payne in there, having a guy coming back after 3 months with concussion means I'd be surprised if there's any change there next week, especially with the battering rams the French call centers.

With Madigan at 12 we'd be sacrificing something in defence certainly, but not with Fitzgerald at 13, he defends that channel very well

Clareman · 07-02-2015 10:30PM

Fair enough, Luke wouldn't be a bad option, 13 is probably a position we have options in (Bowe, Payne, Earls, Fitz), big problem is none of them will be as good as the last guy to hold the jersey.

bilston · 07-02-2015 10:34PM

Clareman wrote: »

Fair enough, Luke wouldn't be a bad option, 13 is probably a position we have options in (Bowe, Payne, Earls, Fitz), big problem is none of them will be as good as the last guy to hold the jersey.

They have different strengths to O'Driscoll though. We have been spoilt by our centre partnership over the last decade and more, but in a funny way having the likes of Henshaw and Payne there, or indeed Fitzgerald or Bowe would give me more confidence against the likes of the Welsh backline. I think it was mentioned in November, but next week with Sexton back we will have a very big backline.

phog · 07-02-2015 10:41PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

He has been rushed back ? He hasnt played in a year.
Is he more likely to tweak a hamstring warming up for Ireland than if he were turning out for 50 minutes for Leinster or a game for Carlow even ?
Or has an 'rush' to get him back mean he has put pressure on the rest of his body now that the shoulder is OK ?

If we were playing France today and Italy next week would SOB have been rested until next week? I think he might have been. In saying that his hamstring could have tightened at any time.

Tox56 · 07-02-2015 10:44PM

phog wrote: »

If we were playing France today and Italy next week would SOB have been rested until next week? I think he might have been. In saying that his hamstring could have tightened at any time.

? If anything they'd be more likely to play him against France if they had the chance than in a game against Italy that they know they should win regardless. They wouldn't have named him to start if he wasn't ready, I think he was perfectly capable of playing just unlucky

.ak · 07-02-2015 10:46PM

Regarding sob I wouldn't think anyone is rushing him back. The shoulder is 100% I'd say. The thing is when you get a long lay off like that the hardest thing to get right is the legs. The running, stepping, falling, sprinting etc is very hard on the legs, and you often see it with players after a long lay off. It could feel worse than it was. We might well see him in the 23 for France... Although I doubt it, and Schmidt would've wanted to see him play this game first.

Quint2010 · 07-02-2015 10:57PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

He has been rushed back ? He hasnt played in a year.
Is he more likely to tweak a hamstring warming up for Ireland than if he were turning out for 50 minutes for Leinster or a game for Carlow even ?
Or has an 'rush' to get him back mean he has put pressure on the rest of his body now that the shoulder is OK ?

Point is he has been out for so long he should have been given game time with Leinster. Build up his match fitness. He played for 50 minutes last weekend and in the warm up today he had a reaction. Is it purely a coincidence that he barely plays for a year has 50 minutes game time and then suffers another injury? He should have been nursed back.

SaveOurLyric · 07-02-2015 11:08PM

Quint2010 wrote: »

Point is he has been out for so long he should have been given game time with Leinster. Build up his match fitness. He played for 50 minutes last weekend and in the warm up today he had a reaction. Is it purely a coincidence that he barely plays for a year has 50 minutes game time and then suffers another injury? He should have been nursed back.

But nursed back is what, not playing games ? How do you know it was rushed ?

phog · 07-02-2015 11:15PM

Tox56 wrote: »

? If anything they'd be more likely to play him against France if they had the chance than in a game against Italy that they know they should win regardless. They wouldn't have named him to start if he wasn't ready, I think he was perfectly capable of playing just unlucky

He was named to start so that he could get a run out and be subbed when he had no more to offer. Joe said as much after the team was announced. I think his game time today was all about getting him ready for France and that is why I think he'd have been rested today if we had France today and Italy next week. Anyway, the important thing is that he's not out injured again

Quint2010 · 07-02-2015 11:17PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

But nursed back is what, not playing games ? How do you know it was rushed ?

No...nursed back is 20 mins here, 30 mins there. Even for Leinster A and Clontarf if that's who he is affiliated to. Build up his match fitness and not just his fitness. Ease him back in.

sydthebeat · 07-02-2015 11:30PM

I really think fitz would tear bastareaud a new one if he faced off against him. There were holes all over that French back line today.

Do You Even Squat · 07-02-2015 11:45PM

Did anyone get a shiver down their spine when George Hook mentioned "loyalty" today with regards to Schmidt's selection of the centres? It just echoed the Kidney era. God knows we dont want to go down that road again. Payne gets little game time in the 13 jersey after the AIs and looked pretty average in the games he has played at 13 but somehow gets back in the starting lineup. Fitzgerald rips teams apart in a poorly coached team with disillusioned players inside and outside of him and doesn't even get a look in for the 13 shirt, let alone the match day 23. I know this has been debated to death but what use is Jones in the 23 jersey? He's an average Champions Cup player and is a specialist full back. It's pretty obvious Joe likes him, for whatever bizarre reason which frightens me. Now it's pretty obvious Payne is a top class 15, no point in arguing about it, but he hasnt set the world alight at 13. The sensible thing is to have him, Earls or Zeebs at 23 (with either of Earls or Zeebs starting, until Trimble returns). Payne>Earls>Zeebs in terms of quality imo. If the centre combo still stands by the Wales game, I wouldnt be too optimistic about our chances at the RWC and beyond.

Clegg · 08-02-2015 12:21AM

The more I think about it, the more content I am with todays performance. We weren't at 100% but we beat Italy with minimum fuss and will welcome back two of our best players for the French game. I'm also assuming we were holding back some of our set plays with France in mind so we didn't show our hand.

08-02-2015 12:42AM

Wasn't especially happy watching the game but it's a decent win, they rarely threatened, we were miles off our best XV, so you'd have to take it and move on. Need a big improvement for next weekend though.

SaveOurLyric · 08-02-2015 12:45AM

Clegg wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more content I am with todays performance. We weren't at 100% but we beat Italy with minimum fuss and will welcome back two of our best players for the French game. I'm also assuming we were holding back some of our set plays with France in mind so we didn't show our hand.

Minimum of fuss ? Zero cut in attack against the weakest team in the championship. Based on todays performance, compare to Scotland - the second weakest team in the championship : is it a stretch to say that all 7 backs were more threatening and superior to their Irish counterparts ? Thinking not.

SaveOurLyric · 08-02-2015 12:47AM

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

Wasn't especially happy watching the game but it's a decent win, they rarely threatened, we were miles off our best XV, so you'd have to take it and move on. Need a big improvement for next weekend though.

A crucial one, but many probably only one back missing from a perfectly healthy squad (yes he might prefer Trimbers to the Zeebster, but many would say X-Factor is a better option anyway).
So we looked all over the shop due to our pack ?

Clegg · 08-02-2015 01:14AM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Minimum of fuss ? Zero cut in attack against the weakest team in the championship. Based on todays performance, compare to Scotland - the second weakest team in the championship : is it a stretch to say that all 7 backs were more threatening and superior to their Irish counterparts ? Thinking not.

Minimum of fuss as in the team bossed the Italian's from start to finish. Obviously the execution was poor as evidenced by a very slow first half, but we were playing to a game plan which worked quite well I thought.

Ireland improved in the second half and would've racked up a few more scores if not for some poor handling errors. We lacked two brilliant players in Heaslip and Sexton who are fundamental to the way we attack and Murray was quite rusty at times too. With a game under his belt and the other two to return I think we'll imprive by quite a bit. I can understand being frustrated by the game but we really weren't at 100% by any means.

vienne86 · 08-02-2015 10:24AM

Do You Even Squat wrote: »

Did anyone get a shiver down their spine when George Hook mentioned "loyalty" today with regards to Schmidt's selection of the centres? It just echoed the Kidney era. God knows we dont want to go down that road again. Payne gets little game time in the 13 jersey after the AIs and looked pretty average in the games he has played at 13 but somehow gets back in the starting lineup. Fitzgerald rips teams apart in a poorly coached team with disillusioned players inside and outside of him and doesn't even get a look in for the 13 shirt, let alone the match day 23. I know this has been debated to death but what use is Jones in the 23 jersey? He's an average Champions Cup player and is a specialist full back. It's pretty obvious Joe likes him, for whatever bizarre reason which frightens me. Now it's pretty obvious Payne is a top class 15, no point in arguing about it, but he hasnt set the world alight at 13. The sensible thing is to have him, Earls or Zeebs at 23 (with either of Earls or Zeebs starting, until Trimble returns). Payne>Earls>Zeebs in terms of quality imo. If the centre combo still stands by the Wales game, I wouldnt be too optimistic about our chances at the RWC and beyond.

I missed that 'loyalty' quote from Hook and I'm glad I did. That drove me round the twist with Kidney.....e.g. picking DOC (of whom I am a fan and admirer BTW) when he was well beyond is best before date. I just don't think Schmidt operates like that at all. Whenever I hear him interviewed, particularly about his selections, I get this strong sense of egality and fairness.

We have played one match in a tough series of five. We are going to need a lot more that 15 good players, and there will inevitably be some chopping and changing is some positions. While I would love to see Fitz (and others) get a run, I am sure that it will happen if it is supposed to happen.

SaveOurLyric · 08-02-2015 11:38AM

vienne86 wrote: »

I missed that 'loyalty' quote from Hook and I'm glad I did. That drove me round the twist with Kidney.....e.g. picking DOC (of whom I am a fan and admirer BTW)

Hook did say it. And I think its true there is an element of loyalty with Schmidt within a campaign. Sure, the like of O'Brien or Sexton coming back from injury will see players dropped without doubt. But for closer calls, I think he does have a tendency to leave a man in place unless he is making mistakes, and reward execution of Plan Joe. Someone playing out of their skin probably has to wait for an injury or the next campaign to get a chance.

rrpc · 08-02-2015 11:56AM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Hook did say it. And I think its true there is an element of loyalty with Schmidt within a campaign. Sure, the like of O'Brien or Sexton coming back from injury will see players dropped without doubt. But for closer calls, I think he does have a tendency to leave a man in place unless he is making mistakes, and reward execution of Plan Joe. Someone playing out of their skin probably has to wait for an injury or the next campaign to get a chance.

That's not loyalty though, that's pragmatism. Loyalty would be sticking with a player even though he's not playing well. Changing out players because there's a possibly better player waiting in the wings is a gamble. You'd need to be very sure that the replacement would provide an improvement (such as with SOB and Sexton).

sydthebeat · 08-02-2015 12:17PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Hook did say it. And I think its true there is an element of loyalty with Schmidt within a campaign. Sure, the like of O'Brien or Sexton coming back from injury will see players dropped without doubt. But for closer calls, I think he does have a tendency to leave a man in place unless he is making mistakes, and reward execution of Plan Joe. Someone playing out of their skin probably has to wait for an injury or the next campaign to get a chance.

Coaching selection shocker, picks player who doesn't make mistakes and implements his game plan as he would like it, culminating in a 92% win rate. ....

Oh the travesty !!!

OldRio · 08-02-2015 12:21PM

Hook? The spouting's of the ill informed?
I find the use of the mute button a great companion when George is in the pulpit.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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