‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 04:35AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I find catholics writing against censorship to be quite ironic given the history of this country.

I never looked for anything to be censored once it was the truth or from the arts.

Censorship of the truth is what allows wrongs to happen.

Smidge · 05-02-2015 04:37AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Also Peter Boylan said these drugs should only be taken under medical supervision.
Suzanne is potentially putting the lives of women at risk.

She wouldn't need to if they were available here.
Its ironic, isn't it that these tablets are freely available in so many other countries around the world, but not here.

I remember watching a doc about the introduction of the pill.
It terrified the fukc out of men at the time. How dare women have the right to their own bodies and ergo their sexuallity?
And lets be honest about it, thats what this really boils down to.
Women are the only sex who MUST abstain to avoid pregnancy 100%.
I always laugh at the "Well just don't have sex" mantra. That only applies to women.
If we were to tell ALL MEN who were unmarried to abstain abortion would be passed in the morning.

Smidge · 05-02-2015 04:43AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Also Peter Boylan said these drugs should only be taken under medical supervision.
Suzanne is potentially putting the lives of women at risk.

You're clutching at straws now mate.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 04:45AM

Smidge wrote: »

She wouldn't need to if they were available here.
Its ironic, isn't it that these tablets are freely available in so many other countries around the world, but not here.

I remember watching a doc about the introduction of the pill.
It terrified the fukc out of men at the time. How dare women have the right to their own bodies and ergo their sexuallity?
And lets be honest about it, thats what this really boils down to.
Women are the only sex who MUST abstain to avoid pregnancy 100%.
I always laugh at the "Well just don't have sex" mantra. That only applies to women.
If we were to tell ALL MEN who were unmarried to abstain abortion would be passed in the morning.

You have no right to speak for all men.

Sorry but if you got sex education you would know it applied to men. If women are the only sex to have to abstain to avoid pregnancy 100%, you forget she can only get pregnant if she has sex with a man, so the man has to abstain too.
You were doing it wrong :P

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 04:49AM

Smidge wrote: »

You're clutching at straws now mate.

That would be you. Peter Boylan was on Newstalk last year talking about the dangers of taking these pills unsupervised and how women appear for treatment when they are suffering from things like excessive bleeding.

Smidge · 05-02-2015 04:50AM

RobertKK wrote: »

You have no right to speak for all men.

Sorry but if you got sex education you would know it applied to men. If women are the only sex to have to abstain to avoid pregnancy 100%, you forget she can only get pregnant if she has sex with a man, so the man has to abstain too.
You were doing it wrong :P

Eh, I think your doing it wrong. Men can have sex without getting themselves pregnant.
The don't need to abstain.
People always say "Well, if she didn't want to get pregnant she shouldnt have had sex" True. So by this logic, women should abstain as NO contraception is 100% and runs the risk.
Only the woman needs to abstain to avoid pregnancy.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 04:54AM

Smidge wrote: »

Eh, I think your doing it wrong. Men can have sex without getting pregnant.
The don't need to abstain.
People always say "Well, if she didn't want to get pregnant she shouldnt have had sex" True. So by this logic, women should abstain as NO contraception is 100% and runs the risk.
Only the woman needs to abstain to avoid pregnancy.

How can a woman abstain unless you are having sex with a man.

BlaasForRafa · 05-02-2015 05:24AM

RobertKK wrote: »

That would be you. Peter Boylan was on Newstalk last year talking about the dangers of taking these pills unsupervised and how women appear for treatment when they are suffering from things like excessive bleeding.

Stop talking like you actually give a crap about women, all you care about is trying to find spurious justifications to force pregnant women to bear foetuses against their will.

NachoBusiness · 05-02-2015 06:30AM

Morag wrote: »

abortionsupport.org.uk/get-help/ are a charity who's volunteers help women trying to travel, with information about clinics and booking flights and if they are short a small sum of money they can sometimes help.

It's 20 years from when I travelled to the UK like Tara did to have an abortion.
I too have gone on to have kids and be happy, more Irish women have abortions then have their tonsils removed, it is for Irish women a very common medical procedure despite the restrictions.

The emboldened has little if anything to do with the discussion and the comparison is quite obviously only made in a trite effort at trivializing abortion. Women don't grieve the loss of their tonsils. It matters not a jot that more Irish women have one over procedure over the other. I'm sure there are many activities which are illegal here in Ireland which Irish citizens travel abroad to partake in regularly, but it would hardly be argument enough to legalize whatever the fcuk these activities are, just because it involves more people than there are having their tonsils out back home. Ridiculous comment.

I support abortion here in Ireland for up to 14 weeks (no real issue with higher for medical reasons either) but it's quite clear to me that for many people the abortion issue has very little to do with the potential life of the embryo / fetus, as when they take part in these discussions all focus is instead solely focused on the potential 'mother'. For far too long the debate has focused the wishes and needs of that potential 'mother'. I wouldn't mind if the focus was balanced with pros and cons of the decision being highlighted, but it never is and almost always it just seems to be purely from a standpoint of 'women's rights' and body autonomy. The abortion debate should be a debate for humanity but it has unfortunately long since been hijacked by overly by either over religious bigots on one side and (It's my body!! Down with the oppressive patriarchy!) feminists on the other and it's about time they both got those giant chips of their shoulders and stopped using the abortion debate as either, just yet another opportunity to bible thump, or continue on with their never ending gender war (which at this stage, it's quite clear many have let define them).

As I say, I would support abortion in Ireland for sure but I really think the more high profile "advice" and "support" organizations out there currently are wholly inadequate as they don't give the full picture to the women. The possibility of regret is only briefly touched on during any counseling which is availed of and if abortion is ever legal in Ireland, I hope that the this area in particular is not left to private and voluntary organizations, as is mostly the case in the UK (mostly).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShKUFhwH-Rw

volchitsa · 05-02-2015 07:50AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Also Peter Boylan said these drugs should only be taken under medical supervision.
Suzanne is potentially putting the lives of women at risk.

Yeah, cos protecting women is really what is motivating your posts, isn't it? :mad:

The abortion pills, even taken without medical supervision are no more dangerous than the average pregnancy and birth.

But since there are a few women they might cause harm to, that could be fixed by legalising abortion. Is that what you would do, to keep women safe?

Or is your pretence of caring about women just a facade, and not a very good one at that?

swampgas · 05-02-2015 07:55AM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

I don't believe in gods or elfs.
And so you ignore all the other science papers I've referenced, and the multitude more that exist on the subject.

I smell a carefully worded bit of mental reservation here. Maybe you don't believe in "gods", is that perhaps because you believe in "God" ?

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 08:47AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Stop talking like you actually give a crap about women, all you care about is trying to find spurious justifications to force pregnant women to bear foetuses against their will.

Read your own post and start off by stop talking as if you actually know me.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 09:08AM

volchitsa wrote: »

Yeah, cos protecting women is really what is motivating your posts, isn't it? :mad:

The abortion pills, even taken without medical supervision are no more dangerous than the average pregnancy and birth.

But since there are a few women they might cause harm to, that could be fixed by legalising abortion. Is that what you would do, to keep women safe?

Or is your pretence of caring about women just a facade, and not a very good one at that?

Honestly.

It is very dangerous ordering drugs over the internet from maybe suspect sources. They are not guaranteed to be what they claim to be, they are designed to be prescribed by a doctor.
How do you know you aren't simply talking paracetamol dressed up as an abortion pill or a bit of rat poison?
There is a reason why drugs are regulated.

Abortion is not about caring for women, proper services like the best care and support for women who are pregnant is caring for women.
Safe abortion is also a lie, it is not like women have not died from free 'safe' and legal abortion.
child birth is more dangerous than abortion, but that doesn't mean women don't die from having a legal and supposedly safe abortion.

You won't hear the same fuss of a pregnant woman dying from an abortion that was supposedly safe and legal as you would when a woman dies like Savita.
The hypocrisy of pro-choice, where were the candle lit vigils for the Irish woman who died from an abortion at a Marie Stopes clinic three years ago?
Oh yeah they argued the law should have been changed and she should have had her abortion here.
Always using women and tragic situations as a means for campaigning.
That is the real facade of caring, a tragic situation equals a woman who can be used.

Shrap · 05-02-2015 09:21AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is very dangerous ordering drugs over the internet from maybe suspect sources. They are not guaranteed to be what they claim to be, they are designed to be prescribed by a doctor.
How do you know you aren't simply talking paracetamol dressed up as an abortion pill or a bit of rat poison?
There is a reason why drugs are regulated.

Abortion is not about caring for women, proper services like the best care and support for women who are pregnant is caring for women.
Safe abortion is also a lie, it is not like women have not died from free 'safe' and legal abortion.
child birth is more dangerous than abortion, but that doesn't mean women don't die from having a legal and supposedly safe abortion.

And yet, knowing all this, women with unwanted pregnancies are desperate enough to try anything to end their pregnancy. If the proper facilities are not available, even more desperate measures are commonly taken. Regardless of how stringent abortion restrictions are, women in such crisis will abort. That's the point you are missing entirely and by a wide mile.

Ave Sodalis · 05-02-2015 09:21AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

:cool:

Did you read that post you edited? Or did you just pick a random one with the word foetus in it to change? The reason I ask is because you've just made the post incorrect by your change, where it was correct beforehand.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well to me it is selfish unless there are serious, serious mental health risks to the mother. I just find it hard to believe that 9 months of having a baby and giving it up for adoption is harder in the long run then abortion in the majority of cases, unless it is rape. Why exterminate something/someone when somebody else can care for them?

Its a waste in my view when there are so many childless couples struggling to conceive.Whats wrong with bringing someone else happiness out of an unfortunate situation?

Well, I mean, you can go back and read those links again. One of them looked at over 50 papers and still concluded that adoption is harder than abortion.
Mainly due to the fact that carrying a child for nine months means nine months of bonding and that is very difficult to let go off. It also means nine months of being pregnant. Not forgetting giving birth to it at the end.
There's nothing wrong, not unless there's a big expense of your own mental health.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 09:31AM

Shrap wrote: »

And yet, knowing all this, women with unwanted pregnancies are desperate enough to try anything to end their pregnancy. If the proper facilities are not available, even more desperate measures are commonly taken. Regardless of how stringent abortion restrictions are, women in such crisis will abort. That's the point you are missing entirely and by a wide mile.

Better education is needed, combined with more support.

Shrap · 05-02-2015 09:35AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Better education is needed, combined with more support.

I totally agree. However, regardless of education and support, women still have crisis pregnancies (although studies have shown that the number of abortions can be dropped dramatically in places where a concerted effort has been made at state level in these areas). What do you propose for the women, who in spite of taking all precautions safely and responsibly, find themselves with a crisis pregnancy that they desperately don't want to continue?

Abortion services will ALWAYS be a necessity. Unfortunately.

Ave Sodalis · 05-02-2015 09:35AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Better education is needed, combined with more support.

Of what?

EDIT: Oh, sex ed? Contraceptive still fails. Wasn't it you who was claiming it didn't?

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes all contraception is foolproof

DuffmanGuy · 05-02-2015 09:38AM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

So FFA cases should be forced to carry to term as a medical experiment. The mind boggles.

So you disagree with Autopsys?

Shrap · 05-02-2015 09:40AM

Shrap wrote: »

I totally agree. However, regardless of education and support, women still have crisis pregnancies (although studies have shown that the number of abortions can be dropped dramatically in places where a concerted effort has been made at state level in these areas). What do you propose for the women, who in spite of taking all precautions safely and responsibly, find themselves with a crisis pregnancy that they desperately don't want to continue?

Abortion services will ALWAYS be a necessity. Unfortunately.

To add some facts to that assertion:

In a study published today (Oct. 4) in the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology, researchers provided free methods of reversible, reliable contraception to more than 9,000 teens and women in the St. Louis area. They found that the program reduced the abortion rate among these women by 62 percent to 78 percent

Among women in the free contraceptive program, the teen birth rate was 6.3 per 1,000 women, a huge difference from the national teen birth rate of 34.3 per 1,000 women.

Likewise, the abortion rate among women in the program was 4.4 to 7.5 per 1,000 between 2008 and 2010. Nationally, there are 19.6 abortions per every thousand women, a 62 percent to 78 percent difference. In the St. Louis area, the overall abortion rate in that time frame was between 13.4 and 17 abortions per 1,000 women.

http://www.livescience.com/23726-birth-control-abortion-rate.html

B_Wayne · 05-02-2015 09:41AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Better education is needed, combined with more support.

Switzerland has far fewer people having abortions than Ireland. However much you wish to boycott those travelling abroad. Great sex education but also recognises need to have legal abortion so the Swiss system is far superior to Ireland, no?

Penny Tration · 05-02-2015 09:42AM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

So you disagree with Autopsys?

Where did she say she disagreed with autopsies? Are you just making things up as you go along to try discredit people?

She disagrees with using a woman's body as an incubator for a foetus which will not survive outside of the womb, building a bond with what will ultimately be a dead child, all so the body can be cut up and examined. That's not disagreeing with autopsies, that's disagreeing with a horrible level of cruelty towards the woman, and protecting her emotional/mental well-being.

Ave Sodalis · 05-02-2015 09:42AM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

So you disagree with Autopsys?

Do you mind providing these studies now that you're back?

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 09:46AM

B_Wayne wrote: »

Switzerland has far fewer people having abortions than Ireland. However much you wish to boycott those travelling abroad. Great sex education but also recognises need to have legal abortion so the Swiss system is far superior to Ireland, no?

I never boycotted anything. Saying I wish to is simply making up stuff.

Shrap · 05-02-2015 09:48AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I never boycotted anything. Saying I wish to is simply making up stuff.

But you wish to continue the hypocritical and prohibitively expensive export of our women to abortion services abroad, as it suits YOU not to let abortion services be provided here? Same thing really.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 09:49AM

sup_dude wrote: »

Of what?

EDIT: Oh, sex ed? Contraceptive still fails. Wasn't it you who was claiming it didn't?

No I was just showing how contraception is used in arguments.
In abortion arguments, the condom bursts.
In HIV/AIDS arguments, the condom is the protector.

I was just having a bit of fun with how the argument changes to suit the point of view.

Grayson · 05-02-2015 09:50AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Honestly.

It is very dangerous ordering drugs over the internet from maybe suspect sources. They are not guaranteed to be what they claim to be, they are designed to be prescribed by a doctor.
How do you know you aren't simply talking paracetamol dressed up as an abortion pill or a bit of rat poison?
There is a reason why drugs are regulated.

Abortion is not about caring for women, proper services like the best care and support for women who are pregnant is caring for women.
Safe abortion is also a lie, it is not like women have not died from free 'safe' and legal abortion.
child birth is more dangerous than abortion, but that doesn't mean women don't die from having a legal and supposedly safe abortion.

You won't hear the same fuss of a pregnant woman dying from an abortion that was supposedly safe and legal as you would when a woman dies like Savita.
The hypocrisy of pro-choice, where were the candle lit vigils for the Irish woman who died from an abortion at a Marie Stopes clinic three years ago?
Oh yeah they argued the law should have been changed and she should have had her abortion here.
Always using women and tragic situations as a means for campaigning.
That is the real facade of caring, a tragic situation equals a woman who can be used.

people die in lots of procedures. Abortion is an awful lot safer than childbirth. Some studies have found that it is 13-14 times safer. (0.6 per 100000)

Legal, safe abortion is one of the most safe medical procedures in the world.

let me put it this way. You are more likely to die from a colonoscopy. (0.006% Chance)

Penny Tration · 05-02-2015 09:51AM

RobertKK wrote: »

No I was just showing how contraception is used in arguments.
In abortion arguments, the condom bursts.
In HIV/AIDS arguments, the condom is the protector.

I was just having a bit of fun with how the argument changes to suit the point of view.

What are you on about?

Condoms are a good protection against both HIV and pregnancy. They're not foolproof, however.

But, your chances of contracting HIV when a condom splits is far, far lower than your change of getting pregnant, which is why it isn't mentioned much with regards to HIV.

RobertKK · 05-02-2015 09:51AM

Shrap wrote: »

But you wish to continue the hypocritical and prohibitively expensive export of our women to abortion services abroad, as it suits YOU not to let abortion services be provided here? Same thing really.

No, I never boycotted anything, posting lies about me doesn't mean I support boycotting something.
People voted to restrict abortion here, do you want things brought in against the will of the people?

Penny Tration · 05-02-2015 09:52AM

RobertKK wrote: »

No, I never boycotted anything, posting lies about me doesn't mean I support boycotting something.
People voted to restrict abortion here, do you want things brought in against the will of the people?

A previous generation voted.

It should be put to a vote where the people whose lives it can affect, can ALSO have their vote.

‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

Comments