‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

Kiwi in IE

To be honest the circumstances in which I would have an abortion myself would be very limited (sexual assault, risk to life, FFA). I would even consider continuing a pregnancy that posed a permanent risk to my health depending on the severity and likelihood of negative outcome and impact on my existing family (and in fairness I am saying this as someone financially secure in a stable relationship). Despite that, I am staunchly pro choice because none of us have the right to insist that how we would personally respond to a particular circumstance, be applied to the entire population based on subjective phenomena like personal values and beliefs. This is what I don't get about abortion/marriage equality/euthanasia arguments. Why do so many people think that they should be entitled to force their values and beliefs on everyone? If you are opposed to abortion don't get one!

Shrap

humanji wrote: »

Mod: stop trolling

Oh, oops! I thought that was some fairly Irish satire! My bad....

Kiwi in IE

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

I believe that all women who have abortions should be executed by firing squad.
All their accomplices should also be shot.
If this means we should send drones to kill doctors and nurses in foreign countries then so be it.
If foreign nations respond by declaring war and lay waste to this country and we all die of famine at least we will all die knowing that Irish babies were not dying in British abortion clinics and that young people being shot down on the streets in defense of the unborn just like the youth of Derry who were shot on Bloody Sunday in protest against internment would die knowing they died in the tradition of the Robert Emmet, Patrick Pearse and Michael Collins.
No British doctor who kills an Irish baby should escape a bullet.
Tiocfaidh ár lá!

I have to say I also took that to be satire. If it was trolling then clearly a very unconvincing troll :P

gormdubhgorm

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Everyone is not a winner. Birthmothers don't walk away unscathed - for some, at that point, alifetime of heartache and emotional distress has just begun. Please don't be so flippant about a subject you clearly have little understanding of. Lucky you.

Well there will be more winners then losers then put it that way.

a lifetime of heartache and emotional distress

could also be caused by having an abortion at least this way the child gets a chance and the mother survives.
If the upcoming referendum on gay marriage passes there will be even more couples looking to adopt a child into a married family unit.

Ave Sodalis

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well there will be more winners then losers then put it that way. could also be caused by having an abortion at least this way the child gets a chance and the mother survives.
If the upcoming referendum on gay marriage passes there will be even more couples looking to adopt a child into a married family unit.

Except I provided links that showed that adoption is worse on mental health than abortion. I'm fairly sure that gay people (as a whole) would not want to force an unwanted pregnancy just so they could have a child.

viper006

Zippie84 wrote: »

Where were the people admiring her for the act? I heard many speak of her being brave for speaking out etc? But for speaking out. That's something different than admiring her for the abortion.

Ya zippie, your 100% right. That comment didnt come out right at all. By act i meant the process of telling the world about her experience . I was trying to say i simply dont get how people can admire or call this lady brave for the telling us her story when she had in full knowledge of the difficult steps required to have the abortion from the onset , a process she puts herself through in order to continue her lifestyle (saving for her apartment and make that road trip they are planning).

Coming out and telling people about her journey when the reason for it in the first place is to perverse a lifestyle and make sure you make that road trip just erodes to goodwill for many id imagine.

gormdubhgorm

sup_dude wrote: »

A fetus child ??? isn't capable of making any choice

:cool:

Zippie84

viper006 wrote: »

Ya zippie, your 100% right. That comment didnt come out right at all. By act i meant the process of telling the world about her experience . I was trying to say i simply dont get how people can admire or call this lady brave for the telling us her story when she had in full knowledge of the difficult steps required to have the abortion from the onset , a process she puts herself through in order to continue her lifestyle (saving for her apartment and make that road trip they are planning).

Coming out and telling people about her journey when the reason for it in the first place is to perverse a lifestyle and make sure you make that road trip just erodes to goodwill for many id imagine.

It wasn't just about a roadtrip / lifestyle, it was clear from what she said that that's not the case. I'm not sure why people keep painting it as such. I know many see it as so black and white, but it's clearly not.

volchitsa

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'll take this.

I've been through an abortion with an ex. I never really had a concrete position on abortion in my teenage years but that changed when I went through it.

Pro-choice. Completely agree with the idea that the prospective parents have a "choice". It's a nice idea.

In reality, from a male perspective, there is no choice. I wanted to keep the baby, she didn't.

People only talk about the woman because brutally it does not matter one iota what the father-to-be "chooses". Of course, in a stable loving relationship the mans wishes, desires, opinions and feelings will be heard and taken on board.

Ultimately though, there is no "choice". In theory it is a 3-party situation - man, woman, baby. Only one of us have a choice.

The rights of fathers to children is shockingly unequal after birth and before birth there isn't a single right.

Abortion is very rarely easy mentally for anyone who goes through it but as usual there's hardly any empathy, sympathy or focus on how it affects the men.

Pro-choice = a womans decision. End of.

I agree that it must be very tough on a man who wants to have a baby if his girlfriend doesn't, but I don't think there's a whole lot more empathy or sympathy available for the woman, going by this thread and some of the online comments I've seen elsewhere.

The problem is though that the man "wanting to keep the baby" in reality means the woman carrying and giving birth to it.

And also her believing that he will actually stick around until it's grown up (how many men who are "heartbroken" at their partner (or ex-partner) having an abortion would really still be there 15 years later? Many who plan a baby don't manage to do that.)

So how exactly would a man exert this choice? By imprisoning the woman?

gormdubhgorm

sup_dude wrote: »

Except I provided links that showed that adoption is worse on mental health than abortion. I'm fairly sure that gay people (as a whole) would not want to force an unwanted pregnancy just so they could have a child.

Well to me it is selfish unless there are serious, serious mental health risks to the mother. I just find it hard to believe that 9 months of having a baby and giving it up for adoption is harder in the long run then abortion in the majority of cases, unless it is rape. Why exterminate something/someone when somebody else can care for them?

Its a waste in my view when there are so many childless couples struggling to conceive.Whats wrong with bringing someone else happiness out of an unfortunate situation?

Frito

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Whats wrong with bringing someone else happiness out of an unfortunate situation?

At the expense of your own? Dont think I would.
It amazes me that women are expected to do this when some people wouldn't even make a charitable donation to Save the Children for nine months.

gandalf

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Its a waste in my view when there are so many childless couples struggling to conceive.Whats wrong with bringing someone else happiness out of an unfortunate situation?

Well if you want to act as an incubator to produce children for Childless couples then please knock yourself out.

LashingLady

Haven't seenthe show yet but plan to watch at the weekend. I listened to Tara and her story on the radio this week and can really relate to her.

I was Tara 13 years ago when I had a termination in the same Ealing Marie Stopes clinic. I was 23 and at the time it was the most agonisingly difficult situation I had faced in my life, not least because my boyfriend (now husband) and I had to go to wait 3 weeks after we found out I was pg because they won't do procedure on irish women before 7.5 weeks . If you're in UK you can take a pill to have a medical abortion at an earlier date but not irish women as you can't be flying the day of or day after taking the pill.

I find it funny that 13 years later it's still such a taboo and a Tara's story is still such a big deal. I have many female friends with the same experience as me.

For about a year after I was pretty affected and sad about it but I always knew it was the right thing for us at the time.

Now we have two children ages 6 and 4 and, I have to say, now I often forget about my experience. That very brief pregnancy (termination was at 7.5 weeks) was a million miles from carrying a baby to full term. For most others I know, while it was difficult at the time, having an abortion doesn't result in severe mental or emotional distress for life.

Zippie84

LashingLady wrote: »

Haven't seenthe show yet but plan to watch at the weekend. I listened to Tara and her story on the radio this week and can really relate to her.

I was Tara 13 years ago when I had a termination in the same Ealing Marie Stopes clinic. I was 23 and at the time it was the most agonisingly difficult situation I had faced in my life, not least because my boyfriend (now husband) and I had to go to wait 3 weeks after we found out I was pg because they won't do procedure on irish women before 7.5 weeks . If you're in UK you can take a pill to have a medical abortion at an earlier date but not irish women as you can't be flying the day of or day after taking the pill.

I find it funny that 13 years later it's still such a taboo and a Tara's story is still such a big deal. I have many female friends with the same experience as me.

For about a year after I was pretty affected and sad about it but I always knew it was the right thing for us at the time.

Now we have two children ages 6 and 4 and, I have to say, now I often forget about my experience. That very brief pregnancy (termination was at 7.5 weeks) was a million miles from carrying a baby to full term. For most others I know, while it was difficult at the time, having an abortion doesn't result in severe mental or emotional distress for life.

Thanks for sharing your first hand experience Lashing Lady.

And yes 13 years down the line for you, I also find it mad that Tara's story is even such a big deal in the first place.

Morag

https://www.abortionsupport.org.uk/get-help/ are a charity who's volunteers help women trying to travel, with information about clinics and booking flights and if they are short a small sum of money they can sometimes help.

It's 20 years from when I travelled to the UK like Tara did to have an abortion.
I too have gone on to have kids and be happy, more Irish women have abortions then have their tonsils removed, it is for Irish women a very common medical procedure despite the restrictions.

RobertKK

Did Suzanne have permission to put up her abortion pill stickers, if not she should be fined for spreading litter.

bodice ripper

Really?

RobertKK

bodice ripper wrote: »

Really?

Yes.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/litter_law.html

It is illegal to put up posters or signs on poles or other structures in public places, unless you have the written permission of the owner of the pole or other structure before you put them up. Any article or advertisement must carry the name and address of the person:

• Who is promoting or arranging the meeting or event being advertised, or
• In any other case, on whose behalf the article or advertisement is being exhibited

Suzanne was using stickers which is worse than posters. Dublin needs to enforce it's litter laws, I don't believe Suzanne would have permission to promote illegal activities, so she should be fined under the litter laws.

I have a thing against litter, and I do report stuff to my own council if I think it is unsightly. Last week it was horrible black and white posters around Kilkenny city, with some reference to a Greek political party.

I also had to get the Gardai out when I found someone dumping a skip load of rubbish on my land.

We need litter rules enforced to keep our country clean and looking good.

bodice ripper

I can't tell you how glad I am to know that pisses you off so much.

RobertKK

bodice ripper wrote: »

I can't tell you how glad I am to know that pisses you off so much.

Good for you.

Smidge

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/litter_law.html



Suzanne was using stickers which is worse than posters. Dublin needs to enforce it's litter laws, I don't believe Suzanne would have permission to promote illegal activities, so she should be fined under the litter laws.

I have a thing against litter, and I do report stuff to my own council if I think it is unsightly. Last week it was horrible black and white posters around Kilkenny city, with some reference to a Greek political party.

I also had to get the Gardai out when I found someone dumping a skip load of rubbish on my land.

We need litter rules enforced to keep our country clean and looking good.

Robert, you need to get a grip.....Littering???

Lets go down that route then shall we?

I, and a lot of other people, as per the programme were offended by the images used in public by the YD.

Distribution or display in a public place of material which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene
While Section 6 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 deals with words or behaviour, Section 7 of the 1994 Act deals with distribution or display of offensive material. The penalty for this offence is a class D fine and or a prison sentence of 3 months maximum. The main difficulty which arises in section 7 is the fact that while something may be obscene to one person it might be thought to be quite normal by another person.

I reckon anyone who comes across the YD displays in the future request they be arrested under the above act.

RobertKK

Smidge wrote: »

Robert, you need to get a grip.....Littering???

Lets go down that route then shall we?

I, and a lot of other people, as per the programme were offended by the images used in public by the YD.

Distribution or display in a public place of material which is threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene
While Section 6 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 deals with words or behaviour, Section 7 of the 1994 Act deals with distribution or display of offensive material. The penalty for this offence is a class D fine and or a prison sentence of 3 months maximum. The main difficulty which arises in section 7 is the fact that while something may be obscene to one person it might be thought to be quite normal by another person.

I reckon anyone who comes across the YD displays in the future request they be arrested under the above act.

I would encourage you to report to the authorities if you find images of an abortion to be something threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene.
We should keep abortion hidden given how offensive the images of it are.
While we are at it, offensive pictures shouldn't be allowed on cigarette packages. People shouldn't see the reality.
Yes to censorship...

btw Suzanne was officially littering Dublin with her stickers if she had no permission.

Smidge

A two cent response......
I watched the programme and for the majority of people it was no news.
Its time immemorial here.

I travelled with a friend to the UK 14/15 years ago for her termination.
Her family was catholic and would have went spare. Also, the guy wouldn't have been the type to stand by her anyway. Didn't matter though, she knew she couldn't continue with it.
I remember to this day sitting in the waiting area(tiny) with her.
There was us and 4 couples waiting(all of the other couples were male and female)
3 of those 4 couples were wearing wedding rings. One of the women cried constantly. 2 of the married couples were Irish.
When my friend went down, I was left with the guy of the crying wife.
He was heartbroken but was holding it together as best he could.
They had tried for ages to get pregnant. They found out the pregnancy wasn't viable and the feotus would never develope and would either die late term of early after birth. His wife couldn't bear it.
The thought, he told me. of going full term to deliver a dead baby was too much and this was the lesser of two evils for them. I still remember them and the heartbreak they were going through.
When my friend returned she was white and shocked.
I wonder how many people understand how much guts it takes to do this without the added pressure from deluded bible bashers and self righteous prigs.

To give the flip side.....
Another friend of mine was pregnant 18 years ago. Second child and after the initial shock, was happy. Pregnancy went along ok, but she did say to me on several occasions that she felt something wasn't right.
Went for first scan. Saw the face of the scanner and new something wasn't right. scanner went out and got the DR. Dr said he thought the child wasn't developing fully but lets "wait and see". She trusted him.
Went to 28 weeks and things went downhill.
LSS, she gave birth preterm.
The child was horrifically disabled. She was told after giving birth that he would live a few days.
He lived 3 months. 3 months of hell for both her and the baby. There was never a chance that the child would live a full life(organs never developed. skull never formed and no brain development. No development of limbs etc)
She had to watch her child die in front of her EVERY SINGLE DAY for 3 months.
She was latter told that these abnormalites would have been seen at the scan and that the DR on that day should have disclosed this to her.
If he had, she would not have continued.
I remember her saying that it was the cruelest thing she had ever seen and was heartbroken that she had brought him into the world to endure such suffering.

Make of the above what you will.

Smidge

RobertKK wrote: »

I would encourage you to report to the authorities if you find images of an abortion to be something threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene.
We should keep abortion hidden given how offensive the images of it are.
While we are at it, offensive pictures shouldn't be allowed on cigarette packages. People shouldn't see the reality.
Yes to censorship...

btw Suzanne was officially littering Dublin with her stickers if she had no permission.

I have every intention of reporting it if it crosses my path in the future.
I would also encourage everyone else to do so.

RobertKK

Smidge wrote: »

I have every intention of reporting it if it crosses my path in the future.
I would also encourage everyone else to do so.

Yes, littering should be reported, it is people like Suzanne who give Dublin the name of being a dirty old town, and stickers are hard to remove.

Smidge

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes, littering should be reported, it is people like Suzanne who give Dublin the name of being a dirty old town, and stickers are hard to remove.

Oh jesus Robert, if thats the strongest point you can make, well then that goes to show where the pro life side are coming from.

"A womans right to choose how her life should go....suck it up"
"Stickers stuck to a public thoroughfare...shocking and something must be done"

Thems some priorities right there folks.

RobertKK

Smidge wrote: »

Oh jesus Robert, if thats the strongest point you can make, well then that goes to show where the pro life side are coming from.

"A womans right to choose how her life should go....suck it up"
"Stickers stuck to a public thoroughfare...shocking and something must be done"

Thems some priorities right there folks.

They showed a woman who imported illegal drugs, who sells illegal drugs, advertising illegal drugs and littering.
Suzanne could be pulled up for at least three to four offenses, she was not the brightest to appear on TV.

RobertKK

Also Peter Boylan said these drugs should only be taken under medical supervision.
Suzanne is potentially putting the lives of women at risk.

BlaasForRafa

RobertKK wrote: »

I would encourage you to report to the authorities if you find images of an abortion to be something threatening, abusive, insulting or obscene.
We should keep abortion hidden given how offensive the images of it are.
While we are at it, offensive pictures shouldn't be allowed on cigarette packages. People shouldn't see the reality.
Yes to censorship...

btw Suzanne was officially littering Dublin with her stickers if she had no permission.

I find catholics writing against censorship to be quite ironic given the history of this country.

BlaasForRafa

Smidge wrote: »

Went to 28 weeks and things went downhill.
LSS, she gave birth preterm.
The child was horrifically disabled. She was told after giving birth that he would live a few days.
He lived 3 months. 3 months of hell for both her and the baby. There was never a chance that the child would live a full life(organs never developed. skull never formed and no brain development. No development of limbs etc)
She had to watch her child die in front of her EVERY SINGLE DAY for 3 months.
She was latter told that these abnormalites would have been seen at the scan and that the DR on that day should have disclosed this to her.
If he had, she would not have continued.
I remember her saying that it was the cruelest thing she had ever seen and was heartbroken that she had brought him into the world to endure such suffering.

Make of the above what you will.

The church and religious types don't give a crap about the suffering of families just as long as foetuses are protected at all costs.