Off Topic Thread too point uh

Swiwi. · 04-02-2015 05:10PM

My 2c, but surely the drinks at issue are those sickly sweet alco-pops. The vodka + lollywater types. Purely out of good taste they should be banned...failing that a hefty price increase seems reasonable...

dregin · 04-02-2015 05:11PM

Swiwi. wrote: »

My 2c, but surely the drinks at issue are those sickly sweet alco-pops. The vodka + lollywater types. Purely out of good taste they should be banned...failing that a hefty price increase seems reasonable...

A unit is a unit regardless of how it's manufactured. A lot of craft beers would be higher percentage and suffer far more than bog standard beers.

Swiwi. · 04-02-2015 05:15PM

dregin wrote: »

A unit is a unit regardless of how it's manufactured. A lot of craft beers would be higher percentage and suffer far more than bog standard beers.

I havent read the details of the proposal but an amendment with exceptions for craft beers seems in order. If a TD runs on that issue he'll get my vote, no questions asked.

errlloyd · 04-02-2015 05:17PM

Swiwi. wrote: »

I havent read the details of the proposal but an amendment with exceptions for craft beers seems in order. If a TD runs on that issue he'll get my vote, no questions asked.

This law will have no affect on craft beers.

This law will literally only affect 24 can slabs, 20 bottle boxes and cheap wine. In supermarkets.

dregin · 04-02-2015 05:19PM

Sound.

errlloyd · 04-02-2015 05:21PM

From a rugby point of view you might see kick off times pushed back to allow for alcohol advertising post watershed.

dregin · 04-02-2015 05:36PM

errlloyd wrote: »

From a rugby point of view you might see kick off times pushed back to allow for alcohol advertising post watershed.

I heard on the wireless earlier that the restrictions won't affect sporting sponsorship.

awec · 04-02-2015 05:50PM

dregin wrote: »

I heard on the wireless earlier that the restrictions won't affect sporting sponsorship.

The wireless?

Are you 80? :pac:

OldRio · 04-02-2015 05:54PM

molloyjh wrote: »

I find that amusing tbh. Those people who are saying enough is enough are just sheep to a different section of parties.

From the river to the sea, Irish water will be free.

So in other words all works, resources and employees involved in the collection, storage, processing and distribution of water should be free. Eh......no. Another amazing example of people refusing to be bothered with thought.

Not that it's surprising, or a first. What SF and a lot of the socialist groups are doing now is no different to what the likes of Libertas and Declan Ganley were doing 6-7 years ago. Whip people up into a frenzy using simplistic and basic notions (regardless of their truth or legitimacy) packaged well that suggest they are in this fight against the establishment with us. They aren't. SF are simply trying to get themselves more seats just like FF, FG and Labour, using the water situation as their banner. Just like Libertas were trying to do with Lisbon.

Amusing? bless you.

It must really upset the chattering classes to see people of different ages and social classes from all parts of Ireland come together and protest. To think for themselves.
Imagine that. Terrible thought for the establishment.

To label all those protesters as 'not bothered with thought' says an awful lot about yourself.

Swiwi. · 04-02-2015 06:02PM

Time to discussion religion methinks :P

errlloyd · 04-02-2015 06:05PM

dregin wrote: »

I heard on the wireless earlier that the restrictions won't affect sporting sponsorship.

They won't directly, but no alcohol commercials before the watershed. So it will affect sports broadcasting.

molloyjh · 04-02-2015 06:21PM

OldRio wrote: »

Amusing? bless you.

It must really upset the chattering classes to see people of different ages and social classes from all parts of Ireland come together and protest. To think for themselves.
Imagine that. Terrible thought for the establishment.

To label all those protesters as 'not bothered with thought' says an awful lot about yourself.

Well I was actually just referring to those who thought water should be free, not all protesters. But maybe it is time to move on...

04-02-2015 06:28PM

All I'll say on the matter of drink, is that a person with a drinking problem will look at a social occasion and say "a normal person would drink so why shouldn't I?"

And they won't drink because they're not a normal person, they're an alcoholic.

As a country, we don't have a healthy or normal relationship with alcohol AT ALL and we can't look at what other countries do and think the same should apply. Ask any A&E nurse what they think about Ireland's relationship with Alcohol and they will tell you all about it. And not the down and outs that most people associate with drink, these people just ruin their health - they don't interfere with others. It's young people, 13 - 15+ that maim themselves in droves week in week out and students who drink so heavily and regularly that it seriously effects results. I guarantee you alcohol has robbed us of quite a few promising rugby players. These people aren't alcoholics but drink has derailed the course of their life.

Most experts say drink problems are related to habit and the gradual development of bad habits. I don't for a second think greater cost will amend these habits, it's something that will need to be done on a societal level with parents heavily involved in helping the next generation associate differently with alcohol. I don't actually think it's possible at all if I'm honest and reckon this conversation will be going on in 20 years time.

OldRio · 04-02-2015 06:34PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Well I was actually just referring to those who thought water should be free, not all protesters. But maybe it is time to move on...

.

I didn't even mention water in the first post you quoted me. Yet I amuse you.

I'm out.

awec · 04-02-2015 06:36PM

We're not debating Irish Water here. Politics is against the charter. Move on.

irishbucsfan · 04-02-2015 06:44PM

Lads let's stay off topic here. All this discussion is far too topical for my liking.

mfceiling · 04-02-2015 06:55PM

Just on the "drinking culture"...

Does increasing price equal a change in culture? We've always had a problem with drink as a nation. Raise the price seems to be every governments answer. Fcuk the rest of you who drink in moderation, let's ramp up the price to eradicate the problem. Still doesn't work - stick it up again. Still doesn't work - stick it up again. Totally unfair for the 80 - 90% who enjoy a moderate level of drink but sure who cares about them?

Doesn't seem to have worked with smokes? Tax take is down with people now bringing in cigs from spain or even dodgier ones from further afield.

We will be a "nanny state" in the next generation. Sugary drinks make you fat - better get a massive price on them. Fast food is unhealthy - tax the hell out of it. Common sense anyone? More education to let people make up their own minds - nah - more taxes, that's the answer to all life's problems.

And breathe....

irishbucsfan · 04-02-2015 07:01PM

I'm in Sofia right now. I spend about a week a month here as we run an office out here. It's a great city.

Alcohol prices here are nothing. I'm sure you've all heard of the 80 cent pints etc, even in the most expensive places in the city center you're paying less than 5 leva (2.50) for a decent pint. Binge drinking doesn't exist here though in nearly the same way. I don't think it has anything to do with price, not even slightly.

dregin · 04-02-2015 07:03PM

awec wrote: »

The wireless?

Are you 80? :pac:

Bringin it back, yo!

irishbucsfan · 04-02-2015 07:08PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'm in Sofia right now. I spend about a week a month here as we run an office out here. It's a great city.

Alcohol prices here are nothing. I'm sure you've all heard of the 80 cent pints etc, even in the most expensive places in the city center you're paying less than 5 leva (2.50) for a decent pint. Binge drinking doesn't exist here though in nearly the same way. I don't think it has anything to do with price, not even slightly.

I forgot to address the most important bit: supermarket prices.

You can buy 2 liters of Kamenitza here for less than 2 leva. That's 2 liters of local beer for 50 cent a liter. People buy them in the evening on a warm day and sit on little tables outside the petrol station outside our office building and share them around in plastic cups. It's like the outside of a coffee shop. If low prices encouraged binging this city would be unlivable.

chupacabra · 04-02-2015 07:12PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I forgot to address the most important bit: supermarket prices.

You can buy 2 liters of Kamenitza here for less than 2 leva. That's 2 liters of local beer for 50 cent a liter. People buy them in the evening on a warm day and sit on little tables outside the petrol station outside our office building and share them around in plastic cups. It's like the outside of a coffee shop. If low prices encouraged binging this city would be unlivable.

I find the same in estonia. Not as cheap as Bulgaria but still very very cheap and very little binge drinking going on aside from the town drunk

me.

Neil3030 · 04-02-2015 07:17PM

Looking at it from a purely egocentric perspective, I don't think price has ever dictated the amount I've drunk. I either want to drink or I don't. Can't say I've ever found myself thinking, 'wow, only 2 quid a pint, let's go nuts', the saving has always been an afterthought.

Buer · 04-02-2015 07:54PM

I think everyone knows that any affordable cost isn't the reason we binge drink. We all realise that it's a cultural scenario.

The question is how do you simply limit the prevalence of alcohol in our culture. The most obvious is limiting its accessibility.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to suggest a viable alternative. Raise the age? Limited impact and people will completely lose the plot. Increase education? We all know the impacts of alcohol already. Limit sponsorship? That has a negative impact on the recipients.

It's a remarkably difficult question and there's no easy solution.

CatFromHue · 04-02-2015 07:55PM

Unless the price is increased massively then it won't make much difference.

Once the price increase is manageable you can and will budget for it.

If you raise the age to 23 or 25 I think it would have a massive difference in how people drink. By that stage people will have formed different things that they like doing and may even.....brace yourselves here people.....dance sober!!!!

Swiwi. · 04-02-2015 08:00PM

Buer wrote: »

I think everyone knows that any affordable cost isn't the reason we binge drink. We all realise that it's a cultural scenario.

The question is how do you simply limit the prevalence of alcohol in our culture. The most obvious is limiting its accessibility.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to suggest a viable alternative. Raise the age? Limited impact and people will completely lose the plot. Increase education? We all know the impacts of alcohol already. Limit sponsorship? That has a negative impact on the recipients.

It's a remarkably difficult question and there's no easy solution.

Maybe increase the cafe culture?? My other half really missed cafe culture in Ireland. If I had the choice between a dingy pub or a decent cafe showing rugby, especially for afternoon matches, I might choose the cafe. But it would need to be rugby oriented, not trendy mums meeting friends for a gossip and a bit of breastfeeding on the side...

I think avoiding dirt cheap alcohol is a good step, but otherwise as you say a cultural shift would be needed.

OldRio · 04-02-2015 08:16PM

I feel sorry for the average couple who work hard all week. Possibly on minimum wage. Disposable income at the end of the week is not much.
They can't afford to go to a bar. So have a few drinks at home on a weekend.
Then this increase. Talk about kicking a guy when he's down.

Podge_irl · 04-02-2015 08:38PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

If you raise the age to 23 or 25 I think it would have a massive difference in how people drink

Yeah, 16-25 year olds will drink in secret/at home instead of 16-18 year olds.

The minimum price they mooted in Scotland would have had very limited impact of most drinks. It was 50p a unit so minimum £5 bottle of wine, £1 for a beer, £20 for a bottle of spirits. Not that unreasonable.

CatFromHue · 04-02-2015 08:45PM

It's alot harder for a 16year old to look 23 or 25 than it is for them to look 18 so fake IDs will be a waste.

errlloyd · 04-02-2015 09:03PM

Lads I think almost everyone here is missing the purpose of that legislation, which is fair because what is being said in the media or on facebook is mostly untrue. This will absolutely not increase the cost of alcohol in your local off license, spar, petrol station or pub. It almost exclusively affects supermarkets.

Imagine this, imagine McDonalds price their happy meals at almost nothing and sell below cost. They recoup the money because the parents who are attracted in by the deal on the happy meal are more likely to buy themselves the normal priced food. McDonalds are pumping children full of low cost **** food at a price that a healthy food vendor actually cannot compete with.

Supermarkets sell alcohol in the same way. But Supermarkets are kind of inconvenient to get to unless you happen to live close to one you're going to drive, and once you start drinking you can't drive. Because of that they make it significantly more economic to buy 24 cans, than to buy 6 - know that the consumer will buy too much, instead of too little. (how man times have you seen 6 cans for 12e, or 24 cans for 25e, sure it's double the price, but four times the cans). They use this predatory pricing model to encourage you to go the whole way to a supermarket to buy it, then when you get there to buy enough so that you don't have to go back.

That pricing strategy is irresponsible. It manipulates customers into buying more alcohol than they even want (nevermind need). I know you guys say it doesn't effect you, maybe it's because I am a student, but for the 6 nations this weekend, I will choose to buy 20 bottles of miller with the intention of drinking 8, because buying 8 makes no sense. I will then inevitably drink 16.

The minimum unit pricing will go up to 1:60 per can I think. So the price of a 6 pack will be basically unaffected. What it will mean, is that you'll be able to buy 4 6packs for much closer to the price of 1 24pack.

irishbucsfan · 04-02-2015 09:17PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Lads I think almost everyone here is missing the purpose of that legislation, which is fair because what is being said in the media or on facebook is mostly untrue. This will absolutely not increase the cost of alcohol in your local off license, spar, petrol station or pub. It almost exclusively affects supermarkets.

Imagine this, imagine McDonalds price their happy meals at almost nothing and sell below cost. They recoup the money because the parents who are attracted in by the deal on the happy meal are more likely to buy themselves the normal priced food. McDonalds are pumping children full of low cost **** food at a price that a healthy food vendor actually cannot compete with.

Supermarkets sell alcohol in the same way. But Supermarkets are kind of inconvenient to get to unless you happen to live close to one you're going to drive, and once you start drinking you can't drive. Because of that they make it significantly more economic to buy 24 cans, than to buy 6 - know that the consumer will buy too much, instead of too little. (how man times have you seen 6 cans for 12e, or 24 cans for 25e, sure it's double the price, but four times the cans). They use this predatory pricing model to encourage you to go the whole way to a supermarket to buy it, then when you get there to buy enough so that you don't have to go back.

That pricing strategy is irresponsible. It manipulates customers into buying more alcohol than they even want (nevermind need). I know you guys say it doesn't effect you, maybe it's because I am a student, but for the 6 nations this weekend, I will choose to buy 20 bottles of miller with the intention of drinking 8, because buying 8 makes no sense. I will then inevitably drink 16.

The minimum unit pricing will go up to 1:60 per can I think. So the price of a 6 pack will be basically unaffected. What it will mean, is that you'll be able to buy 4 6packs for much closer to the price of 1 24pack.

But I quite like drinking cheap alcohol. I am perfectly capable of buying 16 bottles and making them last a month. So why should your lack of will power increase the price of my alcohol consumption?

Off Topic Thread too point uh

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