‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

Kiwi in IE · 04-02-2015 04:58PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Ah I'll defend him here, we're all female originally

Probably not what he meant but ya know, fun fact for the day I guess

You can give him the benefit of the doubt but I am highly sceptical that was the motivation behind the use of term.

liam24 · 04-02-2015 05:00PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

"What Does Human Life Begin?"
By Maureen L. Condic
Senior Fellow
Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person
Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy
at the University of Utah School of Medicine

I can't post links, but here's an extract:

"Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
or of human embryos."

Any more questions?
Fact.

I'm afraid you misunderstand how science works.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:00PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You can give him the benefit of the doubt but I am highly sceptical that was the motivation behind the use of term.

As am I but here's to hoping.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:02PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Awesome! One paper that we get an extract from by one author. Still stating things as fact when a) there's no such thing as fact and b) you've only given a tiny bit of one paper.

You're in denial.
You wanted a paper, I gave you one.
You have the authors name, the study's name, but you complain that it's only one study.
You still won't bother to find and read it because you don't agree with the science.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:03PM

liam24 wrote: »

I'm afraid you misunderstand how science works.

How so?

smash · 04-02-2015 05:07PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

Did you even read that? "characteristic of a human organism" does not equal fully human as you have stated over and over!

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:07PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

You're in denial.
You wanted a paper, I gave you one.
You have the authors name, the study's name, but you complain that it's only one study.
You still won't bother to find and read it because you don't agree with the science.

I want evidence. One paper is not evidence. I said you haven't given one paper, not that one paper (not even one paper) would suffice.

Also, as you are making the claims, it is your job to back it up. One paper is not enough and doesn't prove anything.

I don't agree with science? My god, someone tell my college! Take away my degree!

liam24 · 04-02-2015 05:07PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

How so?

Every conceivable position on every issue is published by somebody. You can find a scientific paper to back up any position. What matters much more is the consensus in the community.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:08PM

smash wrote: »

No doubt he'll back that up with "All zygotes are female until it develops male organs", and completely deny that he's doing it for emotional affect.

It's appropriate to call a Zygote a 'she'.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:08PM

liam24 wrote: »

Every conceivable position on every issue is published by somebody. You can find a scientific paper to back up any position. What matters much more is the consensus in the community.

Can you provide a scientific paper that refutes anything in the one I've outlined?

Didn't think so.

liam24 · 04-02-2015 05:09PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

It's appropriate to call a Zygote a 'she'.

Well it is in German.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:11PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Can you provide a scientific paper that refutes anything in the one I've outlined?

Didn't think so.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140814175559/r2d/images/9/92/Facepalm_stick_figure.jpg

liam24 · 04-02-2015 05:11PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Can you provide a scientific paper that refutes anything in the one I've outlined?

Didn't think so.

I'm not sure many reputable scientists are going to spend their valuable time refuting the semi-theological ramblings of the National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:12PM

smash wrote: »

Did you even read that? "characteristic of a human organism" does not equal fully human as you have stated over and over!

You've quoted from the section on behaviour. It reads further "a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.” "

Conveniently mis-reading a science paper when it suits you?

smash · 04-02-2015 05:14PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

You've quoted from the section on behaviour. It reads further "a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.” "

Conveniently mis-reading a science paper when it suits you?

This still DOES NOT equal "fully human" as you keep stating. The very meaning of the word foetus is something that's still developing. A zygote is even before this stage. Therefore, not fully human.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:15PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

You've quoted from the section on behaviour. It reads further "a zygote is a human organism and that the life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of conception.” "

Conveniently mis-reading a science paper when it suits you?

You're complaining people are misreading an article, but you've demonstrated an awful understanding of science...

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:19PM

liam24 wrote: »

I'm not sure many reputable scientists are going to spend their valuable time refuting the semi-theological ramblings of the National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly.

Here's a few more references for you to check out, should keep you busy for a week or 3..

"At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm , represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p.

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29

Ash.J.Williams · 04-02-2015 05:19PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

again:
And what are we to do about the silient genocide that is all the concieved but not implanted zygotes? Are you going to stand by the toilet with a tea-strainer in the homes of every fertile woman in Ireland?

what?

gosplan · 04-02-2015 05:20PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

You're in denial.
You wanted a paper, I gave you one.
You have the authors name, the study's name, but you complain that it's only one study.
You still won't bother to find and read it because you don't agree with the science.

You produced an essay by someone with a PHD published by a catholic think tank.

bodice ripper · 04-02-2015 05:22PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

"What Does Human Life Begin?"
By Maureen L. Condic
Senior Fellow
Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person
Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy
at the University of Utah School of Medicine

I can't post links, but here's an extract:

"Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
or of human embryos."

Any more questions?
Fact.

"In 1998 he founded the Westchester Institute for Ethics and the Human Person, a Catholic think-tank dedicated to fundamental research on the Western moral tradition."

http://fatherberg.com/bio/

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:23PM

smash wrote: »

This still DOES NOT equal "fully human" as you keep stating. The very meaning of the word foetus is something that's still developing. A zygote is even before this stage. Therefore, not fully human.

Human Organism isn't fully human? What science are you quoting?

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:24PM

sup_dude wrote: »

You're complaining people are misreading an article, but you've demonstrated an awful understanding of science...

Where, exactly, have I demonstrated that?

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:24PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Here's a few more references for you to check out, should keep you busy for a week or 3..

"At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm , represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p.

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29

A week or two?

You've found a heap of papers that prove that fertilisation can produce a human. We know this.

Actually, is this what you used: https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

Delirium · 04-02-2015 05:24PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

"What Does Human Life Begin?"
By Maureen L. Condic
Senior Fellow
Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person
Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy
at the University of Utah School of Medicine

I can't post links, but here's an extract:

"Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
or of human embryos."

Any more questions?
Fact.

From the very little I can find that institute seems to be Catholic think-tank. It's hardly surprising that paper lends support to those opposing abortion.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 05:25PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Where, exactly, have I demonstrated that?

Just about every "scientific" post you've posted thus far.

bodice ripper · 04-02-2015 05:26PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

what?

you said life begins at conception. half of these fail to implant. won't someone think of the tragic loss of life?

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:29PM

SW wrote: »

From the very little I can find that institute seems to be Catholic think-tank. It's hardly surprising that paper lends support to those opposing abortion.

It's conclusions agree with atheist scientists.
You opinion is based on anti-religion, not science.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:29PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

you said life begins at conception. half of these fail to implant. won't someone think of the tragic loss of life?

Yes it is, but it's death by natural causes, not deliberate killing.

DuffmanGuy · 04-02-2015 05:30PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Just about every "scientific" post you've posted thus far.

Any specifics?

B_Wayne · 04-02-2015 05:30PM

DuffmanGuy wrote: »

Where, exactly, have I demonstrated that?

Grand job,this is also fully human and you place the exact same value on it as any life?
https://edc2.healthtap.com/ht-staging/user_answer/reference_image/8093/large/Zygote.jpeg?1386670086

‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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