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‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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Comments

  • #602
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    liam24 wrote: »
    People really are all over the place aren't they.

    Nope, I've stated this already. In fact, I gave two links to extensive peer reviewed papers that analyse multiple studies which show what I said.


  • #603
    liam24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭liam24


    kylith wrote: »
    We went through this a few pages back; there are nowhere near enough adoptive homes for the 5,000+ aborted Irish pregnancies each year.

    Undoubtedly. No point having a bunch of unwanted children around.


  • #604
    DuffmanGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭DuffmanGuy


    smash wrote: »
    No, it really isn't.


    It is completely subjective. It's an opinion and it is not fact. To compare a pre-teen's humanity because it's still developing, to a foetus is just ludicrous.


    This is just daft!

    No daft, biological fact.
    Not opinion, verifiable science.


  • #605
    liam24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭liam24


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Nope, I've stated this already. In fact, I gave two links to extensive peer reviewed papers that analyse multiple studies which show what I said.
    Yes of course you did.


  • #606
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    No daft, biological fact.
    Not opinion, verifiable science.

    Wrong on both accounts.


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  • #607
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Biologist explain that 2 mammals of the same species only can reproduce their own species. Simple.

    No ****.
    I'm glad there were no mules there or you'd be rightly stumped.


  • #608
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Your words, not mine.
    Exactly how do you think medicine develops?

    It shouldn't force a patient to take part against their will for a start. It'd be a pretty unethical way to go about the research.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #609
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    No daft, biological fact.
    Not opinion, verifiable science.


    Stop. Stop right there. Nothing you have said has been verified. You have not provided one single link to anything you said. No one. In fact, you refused to do so. You have no understanding of science when you cannot find a single peer reviewed study to what you've stated. I'm going to go right ahead and assume that despite your claims of science this, and science that, you don't have access to any science papers. Stop saying fact. Science doesn't even recognise the word fact.


  • #610
    DuffmanGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭DuffmanGuy


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Of course insisting a pregnancy where anencephaly is detected goes to term, and once birth is achieved using the child as a medical study is totally ethical!

    The child doesn't benefit from being killed. Death by natural causes is a fact of all life.


  • #611
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    liam24 wrote: »
    Yes of course you did.


    Yes, I did.
    sup_dude wrote: »
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1049386709001595 http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/abortion/mental-health.pdf


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  • #612
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Science does prove that we are fully human from fertilisation.
    You assume incorrectly.

    I'd have to disagree with you there. Until very late in gestation a foetus does not have fully developed lungs or a fully developed brain. The difference between an infant and a foetus is that all the infant's organs work and the foetus' do not. The only difference between the organs of a newborn, a child, a teenager, and an adult is size.


  • #613
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,029 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    The child doesn't benefit from being killed. Death by natural causes is a fact of all life.

    How does a woman or foetus benefit from the woman carrying a brain-dead foetus to term against her wishes?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #614
    gosplan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,828 ✭✭✭gosplan


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    The child doesn't benefit from being killed. Death by natural causes is a fact of all life.

    If you're going to use the word 'child', you really need to produce the science bit.


  • #615
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    The child doesn't benefit from being killed. Death by natural causes is a fact of all life.

    Serious question: In a case where there is no hope (missing brain stem etc), what is the issue with offering the option to induce labour at 20-24 weeks rather than carrying to full term with the same result?


  • #616
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    gosplan wrote: »
    If you're going to use the word 'child', you really need to produce the science bit.


    He won't do that.


  • #617
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    gosplan wrote: »
    If you're going to use the word 'child', you really need to produce the science bit.

    Before you know it, he'll be calling the zygote/embryo/foetus by a name for maximum emotional affect!


  • #618
    liam24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭liam24


    People just don't realize that human beings are gods.


  • #619
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    liam24 wrote: »
    There's such a thing as adoption.

    Not much of an option if you don't want to be pregnant.


  • #620
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    The child doesn't benefit from being killed. Death by natural causes is a fact of all life.

    And how does it benefit from being born despite being unable to survive and then used as a medical experiment as you suggested?


  • #621
    liam24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭liam24


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Not much of an option if you don't want to be pregnant.

    You never read the rest of what I said.


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  • #622
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    smash wrote: »
    Before you know it, he'll be calling the zygote/embryo/foetus by a name for maximum emotional affect!

    He has referred to it several times as 'she' already.


  • #623
    batnolan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭batnolan


    Brave and courageous woman. Fair play to hher.


  • #624
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,046 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    There is nothing good about abortion, and it's terrible that you have to defend it in arguments in order to give Irish women the right to have one. There is nothing good about abortion, it's terrible for all involved there are after affects both psychological and sometimes physical, and life really does begin at conception.....(cmon....tell any new future parent that the organism inside them is not a living entity??? you'd be laughed at.)

    but the fact is it's available in most other countries and our women have to travel to England and beyond to have it done...Sometimes back on the same day....Nobody would allow a relative travel after major surgery and it's a disgrace that our women have to do this.


  • #625
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    He has referred to it several times as 'she' already.
    No doubt he'll back that up with "All zygotes are female until it develops male organs", and completely deny that he's doing it for emotional affect.


  • #626
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    He has referred to it several times as 'she' already.

    Ah I'll defend him here, we're all female originally :D

    Probably not what he meant but ya know, fun fact for the day I guess


  • #627
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    and life really does begin at conception.....(cmon....tell any new future parent that the organism inside them is not a living entity??? you'd be laughed at.)

    While you're pro-choice, you must realise that this is subjective because there's an emotional investment there on the part of the parents.


  • #628
    DuffmanGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 99 ✭✭DuffmanGuy


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Stop. Stop right there. Nothing you have said has been verified. You have not provided one single link to anything you said. No one. In fact, you refused to do so. You have no understanding of science when you cannot find a single peer reviewed study to what you've stated. I'm going to go right ahead and assume that despite your claims of science this, and science that, you don't have access to any science papers. Stop saying fact. Science doesn't even recognise the word fact.

    Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

    "What Does Human Life Begin?"
    By Maureen L. Condic
    Senior Fellow
    Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person
    Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy
    at the University of Utah School of Medicine

    I can't post links, but here's an extract:

    "Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
    events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
    development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
    or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
    evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
    life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
    conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
    independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
    or of human embryos."

    Any more questions?
    Fact.


  • #629
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    There is nothing good about abortion, and it's terrible that you have to defend it in arguments in order to give Irish women the right to have one. There is nothing good about abortion, it's terrible for all involved there are after affects both psychological and sometimes physical, and life really does begin at conception.....(cmon....tell any new future parent that the organism inside them is not a living entity??? you'd be laughed at.)


    again:
    And what are we to do about the silient genocide that is all the concieved but not implanted zygotes? Are you going to stand by the toilet with a tea-strainer in the homes of every fertile woman in Ireland?


  • #630
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,046 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    smash wrote: »
    While you're pro-choice, you must realise that this is subjective because there's an emotional investment there on the part of the parents.
    Exactly, but at the same time it's sad people have to demote life to allow people to have the same right people in the UK have.


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  • #631
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    DuffmanGuy wrote: »
    Here's a Peer-reviewed Scientific Paper that explains everything I've said in relation to the beginning of human life

    "What Does Human Life Begin?"
    By Maureen L. Condic
    Senior Fellow
    Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person
    Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy
    at the University of Utah School of Medicine

    I can't post links, but here's an extract:

    "Upon formation, the zygote immediately initiates a complex sequence of
    events that establish the molecular conditions required for continued embryonic
    development. The behavior of the zygote is radically unlike that of either sperm
    or egg separately and is characteristic of a human organism. Thus, the scientific
    evidence supports the conclusion that a zygote is a human organism and that the
    life of a new human being commences at a scientifically well defined “moment of
    conception.” This conclusion is objective, consistent with the factual evidence, and
    independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life
    or of human embryos."

    Any more questions?
    Fact.


    Awesome! One paper that we get an extract from by one author. Still stating things as fact when a) there's no such thing as fact and b) you've only given a tiny bit of one paper.


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