‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

gctest50 · 04-02-2015 04:39AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

.............

A terrible waste of raw material which is more valuable then water which will soon be charged for.:eek:

amazing - bringing Irish Water into it

TheBeardedLady · 04-02-2015 07:39AM

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. 4000 women on average are travelling to the UK to get one. If they couldn't get one internationally, women would be doing it themselves some way. I'm not "pro abortion" and I don't think anyone is but I am pro not ignoring the problem because it's always been there and always will be there and it should be carried out in the safest way possible because that's the right and just thing to do in a civilised society.

pwurple · 04-02-2015 08:09AM

I really feel for that couple. I think they are going to get mountains of abuse over this. Awful.

I think the UK laws are far too lax. Gendercide has even become a problem there, aborting females.

eviltwin · 04-02-2015 08:23AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

An an abortion is far easier both physically and emotionally?

No second chances with an abortion its finite.

Having done both I'd say yes it is a lot easier mentally and physically to have an abortion.

A lot of that would depend on the circumstances though. If you are forced into having an abortion later than you want because you have to raise the money to travel that's going to probably affect you, being forced to have a surgical abortion rather than the less invasive medical abortion is harder but Irish women don't have much of a choice in that unless they can have an extended stay in the UK. Coming back to a country which has virtually no support services and a massive issue with women who have abortions probably does affect some women mentally.

wonderfullife · 04-02-2015 08:38AM

eviltwin wrote: »

Women have abortions for all sorts of reasons. You have no right to judge.

Though if one of the main "gripes" the girl has is the cost of the abortion then there is every right to judge.

Anyway you can get a Sail-Rail ticket from Dublin to London via Holyhead for less than 50 euros and hostels in London for a tenner a night. Whole gig re: travel costs can be accomplished for less than a serious night out on the town in cork (or anywhere).

But the key point for me is the facetiousness in complaining about the cost of it all. Irrespective of her "taking a human life" with her actions; she should know the abortion situation in this country before getting pregnant - not moan about the costs thereafter.

Its like getting done for speeding and complaining about the fine and wishing we had cheaper fines like other countries.

If you don't want to pay a fair whack of money then maybe:

1. Don't get pregnant.....

And/or

1a) having been careless/reckless/unfortunate enough to get pregnant, don't play the "poor me" card at having to pay the cost of a procedure that is fundamentally your own decision. You don't have to pay it. Have the baby....or quit moaning.

RDM_83 again · 04-02-2015 08:38AM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

The same people who want all of these unwanted pregnancies carried to term, are the same ones who give out about "welfare scroungers" when the baby is sent into the system or the mother relies on social welfare and services because she wasn't financially or mentally ready for a child.

Thats a cheap and pointless shot that doesn't even stand up to examination, the rate of abortion in the UK is aprox 20% of pregnancies if abortion actually served to stop children being bad parents or into deep disadvantage the UK should be a paradise compared to the ROI, thing is its worse though.
Its nearly as bad as that debunked freakanomics theory that always gets trotted out.
I've never get how some people on the pro-choice side seem to have an magical ability to know exactly why women have abortions whereas when the pro-life side make those statements its rightly called.

Its easy enough to make a reasonable argument
for some changes in Irish law but its always easier to snipe

eviltwin · 04-02-2015 08:45AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Though if one of the main "gripes" the girl has is the cost of the abortion then there is every right to judge.

Anyway you can get a Sail-Rail ticket from Dublin to London via Holyhead for less than 50 euros and hostels in London for a tenner a night. Whole gig re: travel costs can be accomplished for less than a serious night out on the town in cork (or anywhere).

But the key point for me is the facetiousness in complaining about the cost of it all. Irrespective of her "taking a human life" with her actions; she should know the abortion situation in this country before getting pregnant - not moan about the costs thereafter.

Its like getting done for speeding and complaining about the fine and wishing we had cheaper fines like other countries.

If you don't want to pay a fair whack of money then maybe:

1. Don't get pregnant.....

And/or

1a) having been careless/reckless/unfortunate enough to get pregnant, don't play the "poor me" card at having to pay the cost of a procedure that is fundamentally your own decision. You don't have to pay it. Have the baby....or quit moaning.

Are we reading the same thread? I'm not seeing much judgement over the cost issues. What I'm seeing is judgement over the decision to have the abortion in the first place.

jaja321 · 04-02-2015 08:54AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Though if one of the main "gripes" the girl has is the cost of the abortion then there is every right to judge.

Anyway you can get a Sail-Rail ticket from Dublin to London via Holyhead for less than 50 euros and hostels in London for a tenner a night. Whole gig re: travel costs can be accomplished for less than a serious night out on the town in cork (or anywhere).

But the key point for me is the facetiousness in complaining about the cost of it all. Irrespective of her "taking a human life" with her actions; she should know the abortion situation in this country before getting pregnant - not moan about the costs thereafter.

Its like getting done for speeding and complaining about the fine and wishing we had cheaper fines like other countries.

If you don't want to pay a fair whack of money then maybe:

1. Don't get pregnant.....

And/or

1a) having been careless/reckless/unfortunate enough to get pregnant, don't play the "poor me" card at having to pay the cost of a procedure that is fundamentally your own decision. You don't have to pay it. Have the baby....or quit moaning.

Wow. Hope your life works out for you just as you've planned it.

wonderfullife · 04-02-2015 08:58AM

princesstrixie wrote: »

why is everyone only mentioning the mother? Because she carries the fetus?

I'll take this.

I've been through an abortion with an ex. I never really had a concrete position on abortion in my teenage years but that changed when I went through it.

Pro-choice. Completely agree with the idea that the prospective parents have a "choice". It's a nice idea.

In reality, from a male perspective, there is no choice. I wanted to keep the baby, she didn't.

People only talk about the woman because brutally it does not matter one iota what the father-to-be "chooses". Of course, in a stable loving relationship the mans wishes, desires, opinions and feelings will be heard and taken on board.

Ultimately though, there is no "choice". In theory it is a 3-party situation - man, woman, baby. Only one of us have a choice.

The rights of fathers to children is shockingly unequal after birth and before birth there isn't a single right.

Abortion is very rarely easy mentally for anyone who goes through it but as usual there's hardly any empathy, sympathy or focus on how it affects the men.

Pro-choice = a womans decision. End of.

thee glitz · 04-02-2015 08:59AM

Eutow wrote: »

I find it more sad that somebody has to travel to another country to have an abortion whatever the reason.

Nobody has to travel anywhere to have an abortion.

wonderfullife · 04-02-2015 09:02AM

eviltwin wrote: »

Are we reading the same thread? I'm not seeing much judgement over the cost issues. What I'm seeing is judgement over the decision to have the abortion in the first place.

OP mentioned this girl tara complaining about the cost of travel aand other comments have mentioned travel costs as being unfair. I dont believe that is a legitimate complaint.

sunshine and showers · 04-02-2015 09:11AM

Are people seriously using the term "pro-abortion"? No sane person is "pro-abortion" - the implication of that phrase is you are for people having abortions all damn day, that you go around actively encouraging them as the only option for pregnancy. Abortion is generally not a totally simple choice to make.

It's pro-CHOICE, ie in favour of a woman having the right to choose to have an abortion if that's what she wants. Or in favour of her not having an abortion if she chooses not to.

Basically in favour of women/couples doing what's right for them, without judgement.

Serious pet peeve of mine, especially since "pro-abort" is the insulting moniker of choice from the more sinister part of the anti-choice/pro-life movement.

Fizzlesque · 04-02-2015 09:21AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Humane is the only word I saw in this post and it instantly made me think wouldn't it be far more humane to go through with the pregnancy and put the child up for adoption everyone is a winner for the sake of nine months!I am sure plenty of childless couples would like to adopt the child.

Everyone is not a winner. Birthmothers don't walk away unscathed - for some, at that point, alifetime of heartache and emotional distress has just begun. Please don't be so flippant about a subject you clearly have little understanding of. Lucky you.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 09:25AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

OP mentioned this girl tara complaining about the cost of travel aand other comments have mentioned travel costs as being unfair. I dont believe that is a legitimate complaint.

I don't think it's the main problem but in fairness, if I got pregnant tomorrow, I don't have the money for abortion and won't be able to save up for it. I would need a loan which may or may not be granted. If it's not, I'm going to have to have the child and hope for the best.

caustic 1 · 04-02-2015 09:29AM

I couldn't do it myself but I wouldn't judge anyone who did or would. Different strokes for different folks.

liam24 · 04-02-2015 09:36AM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Are people seriously using the term "pro-abortion"? No sane person is "pro-abortion" - the implication of that phrase is you are for people having abortions all damn day, that you go around actively encouraging them as the only option for pregnancy. Abortion is generally not a totally simple choice to make.

It's pro-CHOICE, ie in favour of a woman having the right to choose to have an abortion if that's what she wants. Or in favour of her not having an abortion if she chooses not to.

Basically in favour of women/couples doing what's right for them, without judgement.

Serious pet peeve of mine, especially since "pro-abort" is the insulting moniker of choice from the more sinister part of the anti-choice/pro-life movement.

I'm pro-abortion. The world is overpopulated.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 09:43AM

Woman's life, her body made up of cells, her choice.
The unborn life, it's body made up of cells, no choice.

Sometimes people say, 'woman's body, her choice',
Then nothing about the unborn as if it didn't exist, and it being called a termination, because a life is being terminated.

Pro-choice sometimes call pro-life anti-choice, but each side could be called that, what choice does an unborn life have if it's mother decides to terminate that life?

Nicki Minaj talked about her abortion when she was a teenager, she told Rolling Stones magazine that she thought she was doing the right thing at the time, but it has haunted her ever since.

That is the problem with abortion, it is a final solution to a problem, there is no going back if one changes how they feel after the event, and I don't believe it is a straightforward thing for a woman to have an abortion unless she is a very cold individual.

Tara admitted her abortion was for selfish reasons: "We have a road trip planned for the states next year, we are saving for a new apartment… I am just not ready … it’s not the best time for me right now…"

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 09:45AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Woman's life, her body made up of cells, her choice.
The unborn life, it's body made up of cells, no choice.

Sometimes people say, 'woman's body, her choice',
Then nothing about the unborn as if it didn't exist, and it being called a termination, because a life is being terminated.

Pro-choice sometimes call pro-life anti-choice, but each side could be called that, what choice does an unborn life have if it's mother decides to terminate that life?

Nicki Minaj talked about her abortion when she was a teenager, she told Rolling Stones magazine that she thought she was doing the right thing at the time, but it has haunted her ever since.

That is the problem with abortion, it is a final solution to a problem, there is no going back if one changes how they feel after the event, and I don't believe it is a straightforward thing for a woman to have an abortion unless she is a very cold individual.

Tara admitted her abortion was for selfish reasons: "We have a road trip planned for the states next year, we are saving for a new apartment… I am just not ready … it’s not the best time for me right now…"

A fetus isn't capable of making any choice so your argument doesn't make sense.

AudreyHepburn · 04-02-2015 09:46AM

I couldn't do it myself, and I make no apologies for that, but I don't judge anyone for their choices.

I do think abortion should be legal but I don't think it should be available 'on demand'. I think each case would need to be assessed individually and obviously in cases where the mother's life is in danger or if she has been raped and doesn't want to keep the pregnancy or is too young, or where the child would not have any quality of life for whatever reason it should be allowed no question.

What I wouldn't like to see would be for abortion to become just another form of contraception.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 09:48AM

sup_dude wrote: »

A fetus isn't capable of making any choice so your argument doesn't make sense.

Neither does a baby, we can allow infanticide so.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 09:51AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Neither does a baby, we can allow infanticide so.

Babies make choices all the time. They decide to move, they decide to investigate. Up to six weeks, there isn't even brain activity in a fetus.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 09:54AM

sup_dude wrote: »

Babies make choices all the time. They decide to move, they decide to investigate. Up to six weeks, there isn't even brain activity in a fetus.

Without those six weeks we wouldn't exist so those six weeks are every bit as important as the rest of the time we existed/exist.

daUbiq · 04-02-2015 09:55AM

How any self righteous dick believes they have the right to tell someone how they should live their life is beyond me... Ireland seems to have a lot of these people living in it.

eviltwin · 04-02-2015 09:56AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Neither does a baby, we can allow infanticide so.

Once a child is born it is its own person. An embryo is not. A foetus is not. That's not just a pro choice argument its a social one too. We don't place the same value on the unborn, we don't tend to see miscarriage for example as devastating as the death of a newborn, early losses are not marked by a funeral, a foetus isn't entitled to a death cert as its not a legal person. Totally different if the child is born though. Having an abortion, while illegal in this country, is not classed as murder.

traprunner · 04-02-2015 09:56AM

Kenya Most Gout wrote: »

Abortion is the ultimate exercise is selfishness - "My happiness is more important than another human being's life".

It's a parasite until a human is born.

Ave Sodalis · 04-02-2015 09:56AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Without those six weeks we wouldn't exist so those six weeks are every bit as important as the rest of the time we existed/exist.

You could apply that logic to every time contraception works. You could even apply that logic to periods and to masturbation.

Egginacup · 04-02-2015 09:58AM

qt3.14 wrote: »

I think it should be freely available up to 20 weeks, not so sure i adhere with her that should be free.

All necessary medical procedures should be free and if you start harping on about your fcking taxpayers pennies....no thanks. There's always going to be some expense that someone grumbles about at it usually pales in comparison the money sucked down the hole as a result of waste cronyism or corruption. Bitch about that and give this girl a break. With her attitude she strikes me as intelligent....the kind of young woman who will make a positive contribution to society. You'd be grumbling a hell of a lot more about your precious taxes going to her as a single mother raising a kid. Your 1000 would be chewed up in nappies in the first couple of months of the child's life.

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 10:00AM

traprunner wrote: »

It's a parasite until a human is born.

really?

So a baby breastfeeding off the mother is not a parasite given it is living off it's host?
Just going by your understanding...

RobertKK · 04-02-2015 10:01AM

sup_dude wrote: »

You could apply that logic to every time contraception works. You could even apply that logic to periods and to masturbation.

But we are talking about life that has been created, not life that has not been created.

daUbiq · 04-02-2015 10:06AM

Egginacup wrote: »

All necessary medical procedures should be free and if you start harping on about your fcking taxpayers pennies....no thanks. There's always going to be some expense that someone grumbles about at it usually pales in comparison the money sucked down the hole as a result of waste cronyism or corruption. Bitch about that and give this girl a break. With her attitude she strikes me as intelligent....the kind of young woman who will make a positive contribution to society. You'd be grumbling a hell of a lot more about your precious taxes going to her as a single mother raising a kid. Your 1000 would be chewed up in nappies in the first couple of months of the child's life.

Is this a reference to the many bastard children of Ireland? Kevin Myers best article!

‘People think I’m the devil for having an abortion, but it’s the only option that&

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