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Average take home pay of 25-49 year olds in Ireland is €790!!!???

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    #152
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,765 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Except wouldn't it be better if we had a more or less equal salary society, like, say, Japan, and homes sold and rented for rational prices?

    It would - in terms of rational house pricing anyway, not sure I agree on the salary bit! Where's the incentive to work harder/improve? - but this is Ireland where you're seen as a failure unless you own your own house. Sure renting is only for "poor people" or a temporary stepping-stone to ownership!

    Seeing as our government and media are busy making the most of the mini-bubble in SCD as some sort of return to form for the country I wouldn't expect change anytime soon either.


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    #153
    Calibos
    Registered Users Posts: 7,806 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

    Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

    On the surface and according to those figures, this household is a wealthy one. We'd have gone stir crazy if the family home wasn't a nice large 4 bed recently renovated Victorian home in a nice area (The debt we are all helping to pay down) However as far as disposable income outside of barely keeping on top of bills and keeping the business afloat and feeding ourselves goes, we as a household are dirt poor.

    How many families are in a similar situation. SFA disposable income but the household pulling in over a hundred grand and pulling that average figure from this study way upwards???


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    #154
    folan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭folan


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    Except wouldn't it be better if we had a more or less equal salary society, like, say, Japan, and homes sold and rented for rational prices?

    so, no motivation to improve and do better to get higher wages?

    whats a rational price for a house based on? Size? location? proximity to amenities? what people are prepared to pay for it?


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    #155
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Calibos wrote: »
    Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

    Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

    Over 7 adults, the equivalent disposable income per person is 18,570 pa.

    This means that you are by no means "rich".


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    #156
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    The figures sound unlikely. There's a thread on here about working for Apple from home, and they're paying €23,000 to €26,000, for instance.
    I'm glad to hear that some young people are well paid, but doubt very much that the average cited is correct.

    That would be a fairly low tier skill job, but anyway if grads start around that in jobs it by no means reflects their earnings at 49, it's such a huge gap


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    #157
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭elefant


    NTMK wrote: »
    you have to remember there is probably a lot more 21-24 working full time jobs earning about that if not more than 16-20 years as most in that age group dont work

    i assume this was carried out on 16-24 year olds that are currently employed the numbers working in the upper half would greatly skew the result

    im 24 and my take home pays is around €2200, other course mates from Uni are on about the same and grad jobs pay around 15-1800 net a month so its not completely un-realistic

    We're in similar situations, but you'd have to think the number of teenagers earning buttons would be much, much higher than young adults in their early twenties earning over 2000 a month!


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    #158
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    elefant wrote: »
    We're in similar situations, but you'd have to think the number of teenagers earning buttons would be much, much higher than young adults in their early twenties earning over 2000 a month!

    How common do you reckon it would be to have, say, two 22 year olds living together on 24k each? That would be a household income of €790 per week, which would contribute to these figures and work to balance out those that are not working at all.


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    #159
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    It would - in terms of rational house pricing anyway, not sure I agree on the salary bit! Where's the incentive to work harder/improve?

    It's a matter of opinion, but I've never noticed that people worked harder for more money. My own observation is that people work hard when they enjoy and value their work and colleagues.
    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    That would be a fairly low tier skill job, but anyway if grads start around that in jobs it by no means reflects their earnings at 49, it's such a huge gap

    If they're hiring graduates and expecting them to be computerate and well-educated, scarcely.


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    #160
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭elefant


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    How common do you reckon it would be to have, say, two 22 year olds living together on 24k each? That would be a household income of €790 per week, which would contribute to these figures and work to balance out those that are not working at all.

    Yeah, when I wrote first I didn't really catch on it was a household thing. Don't see the point in including 16 year olds in the survey if that's the case!


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    #161
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    elefant wrote: »
    Yeah, when I wrote first I didn't really catch on it was a household thing. Don't see the point in including 16 year olds in the survey if that's the case!

    I suppose it's just because 16 year olds legally can work and even with a part time job at the weekend would technically contribute to the household income figure.


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    #162
    nelly17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭nelly17


    Calibos wrote: »
    Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

    Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

    On the surface and according to those figures, this household is a wealthy one. We'd have gone stir crazy if the family home wasn't a nice large 4 bed recently renovated Victorian home in a nice area (The debt we are all helping to pay down) However as far as disposable income outside of barely keeping on top of bills and keeping the business afloat and feeding ourselves goes, we as a household are dirt poor.

    How many families are in a similar situation. SFA disposable income but the household pulling in over a hundred grand and pulling that average figure from this study way upwards???

    Honestly I'd say most families are in a similar situation in one way or another the working class/poor or whatever you want to call it is not doing particularly well these days


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    #163
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Screw the Average - it's a useless measure since the distribution is badly skewed. What's the Median?

    (If you don't know what I mean, read this for example. )

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #164
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    bnt wrote: »
    Screw the Average - it's a useless measure since the distribution is badly skewed. What's the Median?

    (If you don't know what I mean, read this for example. )

    The figures quoted in the article are median.


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    #165
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    The figures quoted in the article are median.
    Which article? The one linked by the OP is all about averages, no mention of medians there. I did check ...

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #166
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Greyian wrote: »
    If we have 3,999,999 people with 2 legs, and 1 person with 1 leg (because of some freak accident or whatever), that'd mean there's 7,999,999 legs (3,999,999*2 + 1) between 4 million people.

    That would mean that there are 1.99999975 legs per person in Ireland, or the average number of legs is 1.999999975. I think that was his entire point, the average (edit: in this case) isn't indicative of the norm.

    Thanks! I thought my one liner was obvious :D


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    #167
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    bnt wrote: »
    Which article? The one linked by the OP is all about averages, no mention of medians there. I did check ...

    Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.


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    #168
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.

    These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.


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    #169
    Buzz Killington the third
    Closed Accounts Posts: 938 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Jesus would you look at the age ranges

    16-24 : 8 years
    25-49: 24
    50-64: 14
    65+ : ?

    But sure if they had reasonably consistent ranges then there'd be no sensationalist headline.


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    #170
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Maximus Alexander wrote: »
    Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.
    Household makes a bit more sense, young people tend to live in shared accommodation, the middle aged have moved in with their parents and the OAPs all live together in nursing homes. Now I can see how they got to those numbers per household.


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    #171
    Qualitymark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Lots of OAPs live with their children, so their pension would be in the pot, a big load of money if it's a public service pension.


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    #172
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.


    Always go direct to the original source.

    Official earnings data here:

    http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/


    Official household income data here:

    http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/socialconditions/surveyofincomeandlivingconditionssilcmainresults/


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    #173
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

    Most recent earnings data from the CSO:

    http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq42013finalq12014preliminaryestimates/#.U5r8hPldWSo


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    #174
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

    Most recent household income data:

    http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2012/silc_2012.pdf


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    #175
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Qualitymark wrote: »
    These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.
    That's kind-of what I am getting at: the average (mean) might be €36,000, while the median might be €22,000. Using an Average calculation only really makes sense if the distribution is symnmetrical, that is, there just as many above-average as below-average households. I suspect there are many more below average than above average, if the high incomes are skewing the average upwards.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #176
    dcollins
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭dcollins


    Thanks for the labour stats, better to go to the source than get something that has been editorialized!
    Much appreciated.


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    #177
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,718 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Whats so special about a retail manager that requires a higher salary?

    It takes a special kind of person to pull off the cheap suit/complete prick combo.


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    #178
    chrysagon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭chrysagon


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    It takes a special kind of person to pull off the cheap suit/complete prick combo.


    we call them politicians!!


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    #179
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Anything to do with money should be discussed in terms of median. Probably already been mentioned, but still. Not even worth talking about averages IMHO


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    #180
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Looks like someone doesn't know about the standard deviation format of getting an actual average....


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    #181
    Skatedude
    Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    I'm 42 and a maintenance tech with a big mutli national. No one i know in the factory are on anything close to that. the vast majority of the techs would be on app 29 to 30k a year before tax.

    Where do they come up with these figures?


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