Eastenders [News, Spoilers and Discussion]

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 12:57PM

MistyCheese wrote: »

Finally we find out what Shabnam has been keeping under her hat.

Apparently it's a 'life or death secret'

Mysterious.

drugstore cowboy · 18-01-2015 02:03PM

ex MTV presenter to play the shows new bad boy.

fussyonion · 18-01-2015 02:28PM

To explain a bit better, it's Richard Blackwood who's the shows' new villain and makes his debut on the live episode:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/richard-blackwood-eastenders-new-villain-4996941#rlabs=4

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 18-01-2015 02:43PM

Who da man? I said who da man?

This is hilarious casting. Good grief.

yerwanthere123 · 18-01-2015 03:04PM

Oh dear.

emanresu esrever · 18-01-2015 03:04PM

clearly Kim's baby's father

CK73 · 18-01-2015 03:33PM

emanresu esrever wrote: »

bit different when a man that raped your wife is behind the bar. easy to say for you.

Sure he can tell Dean he is barred and tell him to leave in front of the other customers, it is his right to bar people, but you don't throw out paying customers and make it out like they are all in the wrong too. Likely they would not all know what happened or want to be part of it.

I don't really understand the rape thing either. I find the whole thing a little odd. He is part of the family and has always wanted a family, so it makes no sense that he would see her in that light and why would she not have just slapped him one or shouted downstairs. It's not like she didn't know him, so why freeze?

I'm not trying to sound unsympathetic (and lets not forget this is not real), but it just seemed totally out of character for both of them.

By the way I am a woman and I've been raped and nope I didn't report it, as it was quite surreal and no one that knew what happened believed me when I told them my side, so it was easier to forget it. Rape (thank God) has not discoloured my life or left me traumatised, so in that sense there are many greys to this topic and for many it's more of a feeling of guilt, vulnerability and violation that is the centre of the hurt, more than the act itself.

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 03:38PM

CK73 wrote: »

It's not like she didn't know him, so why freeze?

Rape (and the victims' reaction to it) are not logical. It is a horrific thing to happen to any person, and in that instant, it's not about thinking logically.

The majority of rapists are known to their attackers, and in many cases, the woman will just freeze. None of us will know how we will react until we're in that situation, and although it's happened to you, every case really is individual to that person.

In this instant, there was also the added complication that he was family. A lot of shock in that in itself. But also from what I remember a large element of trying to protect her family from what had happened.

Yes, Eastenders is fiction, but rape happens every day, and there is nothing to say that because the rape victim knows their attacker they won't free - in fact some may argue that they're more likely to freeze, precisely because they know them.

As you correctly say, there are many greys to the topic of rape.

JP Liz V1 · 18-01-2015 03:39PM

emanresu esrever wrote: »

clearly Kim's baby's father

Who Denise will sleep with

CK73 · 18-01-2015 03:45PM

Zippie84 wrote: »

Rape (and the victims' reaction to it) are not logical. It is a horrific thing to happen to any person, and in that instant, it's not about thinking logically.

The majority of rapists are known to their attackers, and in many cases, the woman will just freeze. None of us will know how we will react until we're in that situation, and although it's happened to you, every case really is individual to that person.

In this instant, there was also the added complication that he was family. A lot of shock in that in itself. But also from what I remember a large element of trying to protect her family from what had happened.

Yes, Eastenders is fiction, but rape happens every day, and there is nothing to say that because the rape victim knows their attacker they won't free - in fact some may argue that they're more likely to freeze, precisely because they know them.

As you correctly say, there are many greys to the topic of rape.

Omg! I just said I was raped and you still think you know better? I knew the person that raped me too. What I'm saying is that the relationship between them is of Aunt and Nephew. He was jealous of the love she gave to his Cousins, as he felt he didn't have it, but that is not the kind of love connected with sex.

He was never unstable before, so it was out of character for him to take it in that direction. He was hurt by the lack of love and care his Mum had given him in the past, but she was there and trying to make it up to him. It's not just rape, it's incest.

I do think the story line is too far fetched, but then they often change people's characters to suit the story line.

JP Liz V1 · 18-01-2015 03:53PM

CK73 wrote: »

Sure he can tell Dean he is barred and tell him to leave in front of the other customers, it is his right to bar people, but you don't throw out paying customers and make it out like they are all in the wrong too. Likely they would not all know what happened or want to be part of it.

I don't really understand the rape thing either. I find the whole thing a little odd. He is part of the family and has always wanted a family, so it makes no sense that he would see her in that light and why would she not have just slapped him one or shouted downstairs. It's not like she didn't know him, so why freeze?

I'm not trying to sound unsympathetic (and lets not forget this is not real), but it just seemed totally out of character for both of them.

By the way I am a woman and I've been raped and nope I didn't report it, as it was quite surreal and no one that knew what happened believed me when I told them my side, so it was easier to forget it. Rape (thank God) has not discoloured my life or left me traumatised, so in that sense there are many greys to this topic and for many it's more of a feeling of guilt, vulnerability and violation that is the centre of the hurt, more than the act itself.

So sorry to hear of your experience, stay strong CK73

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 03:55PM

CK73 wrote: »

Omg! I just said I was raped and you still think you know better?.

I did not say that I knew better. I'm truly sorry that it came across that way, and very sorry for your experiences.

My whole point was that literally every situation will be different. Some will be like yours, some like the fictional Linda, and some like every other possibility we can both imagine, and can't.

Hence there isn't really anything black or white about it, and neither of us is right or wrong.

JP Liz V1 · 18-01-2015 03:58PM

I think Shirley will be the one to get Dean to confess, he will slip up say something and blame Shirley for taking off so making that his excuse and then him and Shirley go on the run or she shops him to the cops

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 04:00PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I think Shirley will be the one to get Dean to confess, he will slip up say something and blame Shirley for taking off so making that his excuse and then him and Shirley go on the run or she shops him to the cops

Yep, I can definitely see Shirley playing some big part in it.

CK73 · 18-01-2015 04:03PM

Zippie84 wrote: »

I did not say that I knew better. I'm truly sorry that it came across that way, and very sorry for your experiences.

My whole point was that literally every situation will be different. Some will be like yours, some like the fictional Linda, and some like every other possibility we can both imagine, and can't.

Hence there isn't really anything black or white about it, and neither of us is right or wrong.

It's a weird situation for me for the reason I just gave and would you believe I think Dean looks a bit like my Son. I live away from home at the moment and I used to like watching the 'Dean' character, because it made me feel closer to him and I liked his character too. Despite not having a great childhood and the real emotion and hurt he felt for his Mum, he was doing good and successful. Then they had to ruin it

Maybe because he reminded me of my Son I paid more attention to his character and his personality and it really doesn't make sense that he would have done that and this is what bugs me. If they had chosen Ben it would have made more sense.

emanresu esrever · 18-01-2015 04:05PM

CK73 wrote: »

Sure he can tell Dean he is barred and tell him to leave in front of the other customers, it is his right to bar people, but you don't throw out paying customers and make it out like they are all in the wrong too. Likely they would not all know what happened or want to be part of it.

.

ok, i didn't want to do this but the below spoiler is between me and you.............

I read an interview with Danny dyer and apparently the whole "the party is over" scene was done for dramatic effect.

drugstore cowboy · 18-01-2015 04:07PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Who Denise will sleep with

He'll be more annoying than Dexter.

Innit.

dubstarr · 18-01-2015 04:09PM

Richard Blackwood i remember him as the poor mans version of Will Smith

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 18-01-2015 04:12PM

CK73 wrote: »

What I'm saying is that the relationship between them is of Aunt and Nephew. He was jealous of the love she gave to his Cousins, as he felt he didn't have it, but that is not the kind of love connected with sex.

He was never unstable before, so it was out of character for him to take it in that direction. He was hurt by the lack of love and care his Mum had given him in the past, but she was there and trying to make it up to him. It's not just rape, it's incest.

I do think the story line is too far fetched, but then they often change people's characters to suit the story line.

Dean was always unstable. Wasn't he involved in drugging Stacy at one point and tried to get Bradly to have sex with her when she was out of it? Not that that has lead to what he did to Linda but he was always a scrote.

It's not incest as he's not related to Linda.

He may well be messed up because of how his mum treated him growing up which makes it perfectly reasonable that he is mixed up about his feelings towards Linda and hers towards him. If he's never received love, as in the platonic kind, and his relationships in the past have always been about sex and what he, or the other person, can get out of it then it's not at all impossible that he wouldn't be able to look at Linda's concern for him as purely a family thing and convinced himself that she wanted the same as him.

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 04:16PM

CK73 wrote: »

It's a weird situation for me for the reason I just gave and would you believe I think Dean looks a bit like my Son. I live away from home at the moment and I used to like watching the 'Dean' character, because it made me feel closer to him and I liked his character too. Despite not having a great childhood and the real emotion and hurt he felt for his Mum, he was doing good and successful. Then they had to ruin it

Maybe because he reminded me of my Son I paid more attention to his character and his personality and it really doesn't make sense that he would have done that and this is what bugs me. If they had chosen Ben it would have made more sense.

Yep I can imagine with him looking like your son and your past experiences it must be quite odd and perplexing.

I think as far as the story goes, there are probably other characters that would have made more sense, but I think being a soap they will want maximum drama rather than what makes most sense. Frustrating, I know.

As for the rape thing, I've been raped, knew the person about 12 years and still froze. Another attempted rape with a stranger and I also froze. And got somewhat angry at myself afterwards for that. And I'll probably never quite understand it. I wasn't going to say that before, because I didn't want it to seem like we were scoring points, cos I don't see it that way. We both had negative, different, experiences, and I'm certain that those types of past experiences may give us strong feelings on watching a topic like this unfold on tv.

The fact that he was doing so successful, I'm not sure, but I think that may be a point that they may be trying to get across to people in itself. The many different dynamics to his character. How sometimes he's been so nice, so 'normal', so decent, yet behind that is what he did. And it maybe gives people a lot to think about itself, re the subject of rape.

But I completely get where you are coming from too, about how the character had been portrayed previously (and still is, I guess), and how there are other characters that may have made more sense.

Thinking about it, I think I probably took the Linda rape to be somewhat born from the rejection felt by Dean, and with rape being about power rather than sex, a desperate need for control, and perhaps they are showing him as a person on the outside with one front, but so many deeply rooted issues complex issues behind it, likely stemming from childhood.

Not excusing what he did for one second by saying that, obviously. More so pondering how they are trying to portray Dean.

Jeez, think I type too much - sorry

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 04:16PM

emanresu esrever wrote: »

ok, i didn't want to do this but the below spoiler is between me and you.............

I read an interview with Danny dyer and apparently the whole "the party is over" scene was done for dramatic effect.

haha could've told you that :P

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 04:17PM

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Dean was always unstable. Wasn't he involved in drugging Stacy at one point and tried to get Bradly to have sex with her when she was out of it? Not that that has lead to what he did to Linda but he was always a scrote.

It's not incest as he's not related to Linda.

He may well be messed up because of how his mum treated him growing up which makes it perfectly reasonable that he is mixed up about his feelings towards Linda and hers towards him. If he's never received love, as in the platonic kind, and his relationships in the past have always been about sex and what he, or the other person, can get out of it then it's not at all impossible that he wouldn't be able to look at Linda's concern for him as purely a family thing and convinced himself that she wanted the same as him.

That makes a lot of sense, I think.

Don't quite remember the Stacy / Dean / Bradley thing, but it rings a vague bell.

emanresu esrever · 18-01-2015 04:18PM

CK73 wrote: »

Omg! I just said I was raped and you still think you know better? I knew the person that raped me too. What I'm saying is that the relationship between them is of Aunt and Nephew. He was jealous of the love she gave to his Cousins, as he felt he didn't have it, but that is not the kind of love connected with sex.

He was never unstable before, so it was out of character for him to take it in that direction. He was hurt by the lack of love and care his Mum had given him in the past, but she was there and trying to make it up to him. It's not just rape, it's incest.

I do think the story line is too far fetched, but then they often change people's characters to suit the story line.

dean is one of the most unstable characters in the show?? He has spiked womens drinks with drugs, stolen, drunk drove, attacked his own mother, framed people for crimes out of revenge, been attacked and bullied in prison. There has always been an edge to him.

I really sympathise with your past experience but I don't think a soap opera is going to truly reflect such an event and comparing this to your own experience isnst a positive thing. It's best to throw a blind eye to it.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 18-01-2015 04:27PM

Zippie84 wrote: »

The fact that he was doing so successful, I'm not sure, but I think that may be a point that they may be trying to get across to people in itself. The many different dynamics to his character. How sometimes he's been so nice, so 'normal', so decent, yet behind that is what he did. And it maybe gives people a lot to think about itself, re the subject of rape.

But I completely get where you are coming from too, about how the character had been portrayed previously (and still is, I guess), and how there are other characters that may have made more sense.
)

I don't think any character being a rapist would make sense, as such. Unless they've written someone in with the sole purpose of being a rapist which is maybe a bit unhelpful.

There's a great blog written by the husband of Jill Maher, who was raped and murdered in Australia a few years ago, where he talks about the myth of the Rape Monster. If you've never experienced it or talked openly with someone who has been raped you would be forgiven for thinking rapists are creepy old men in trench coats who hide in alley ways and drag women into the dark to attack them. I'm sure that kind of rapist exists but there are plenty of perfectly ordinary, well respected, well liked, functioning and successful people who are also rapists. There is no way to tell just by looking at someone what they are capable of or what they think of as acceptable behaviour.

Point being I think the reason they did this story this way was to show just that. There are still so many misconceptions about what is or isn't rape and the confusion surrounding it allows attackers to get away with it and probably prevents victims from reporting it. Nobody wants to experience something like that and then be hauled over the coals by family, friend, police, lawyers maybe even the media and in the end be told they were at fault or it wasn't really rape. Again I think they've portrayed this brilliantly with Linda's initial reaction and reluctance to tell anyone never mind report it. Just look at the current case with Ched Evans as a real life example of this.

Also, and I can't speak from experience here, but I would assume it would be impossible to portray every single victim of rape's individual experience through one character and one story line. Some of Linda's story may not ring through for you but it may for someone else. I think even trying to generalize the experience would be doing a massive disservice to anyone who has suffered this themselves.

emanresu esrever · 18-01-2015 04:29PM

Anyway, re the fact that Mick exclaimed "THE PARTY IS OVER"............ The pub was at closing time, probably over time. 1 minute earlier Shirley had rang the bell and called "Time".

IE........ she had told them "THE PARTY IS OVER".

I would think that Mick and Linda had purposefully arrived back to return to an empty closed pub, but Shirley had gone a bit over time with the drag queens performance taking place.

So I reckon he arrived back, saw the pub was still open, after licence hours and declared "THE PARTY IS OVER"

Its all very simple to be honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf09mDINinU

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 18-01-2015 04:32PM

emanresu esrever wrote: »

Anyway, re the fact that Mick exclaimed "THE PARTY IS OVER"............ The pub was at closing time, probably over time. 1 minute earlier Shirley had rang the bell and called "Time".

IE........ she had told them "THE PARTY IS OVER".

I would think that Mick and Linda had purposefully arrived back to return to an empty closed pub, but Shirley had gone a bit over time with the drag queens performance taking place.

So I reckon he arrived back, saw the pub was still open, after licence hours and declared "THE PARTY IS OVER"

Its all very simple to be honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf09mDINinU

I don't think he actually kicked anyone else out either, did he? They showed Stacey's reaction, I think, but that's because she knows the truth. Don't think anyone else would be that bothered by it really. Plus I'm pretty sure he was directing it at Shirley anyway.

Zippie84 · 18-01-2015 04:33PM

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I don't think any character being a rapist would make sense, as such. Unless they've written someone in with the sole purpose of being a rapist which is maybe a bit unhelpful.

There's a great blog written by the husband of Jill Maher, who was raped and murdered in Australia a few years ago, where he talks about the myth of the Rape Monster. If you've never experienced it or talked openly with someone who has been raped you would be forgiven for thinking rapists are creepy old men in trench coats who hide in alley ways and drag women into the dark to attack them. I'm sure that kind of rapist exists but there are plenty of perfectly ordinary, well respected, well liked, functioning and successful people who are also rapists. There is no way to tell just by looking at someone what they are capable of or what they think of as acceptable behaviour.

Point being I think the reason they did this story this way was to show just that. There are still so many misconceptions about what is or isn't rape and the confusion surrounding it allows attackers to get away with it and probably prevents victims from reporting it. Nobody wants to experience something like that and then be hauled over the coals by family, friend, police, lawyers maybe even the media and in the end be told they were at fault or it wasn't really rape. Again I think they've portrayed this brilliantly with Linda's initial reaction and reluctance to tell anyone never mind report it. Just look at the current case with Ched Evans as a real life example of this.

On 'I don't think any character being a rapist would make sense, as such. Unless they've written someone in with the sole purpose of being a rapist which is maybe a bit unhelpful. ' yes definitely agree. Not sure 'makes sense' is the right words, but wanted to paraphrase what CK73 who I was replying to had said.

As for The Rape Monster myth, I think this is probably without a doubt one of the most dangerous misconceptions about rape. Totally damaging in so many ways.

This myth is something that so desperately needs challenging and changing in our society. Even recently on a facebook group in my local area a guy had been convicted of rape, and someone commented 'now if I'd had to draw a picture of a typical rapist.' This in itself got me so angry. There IS no 'typical rapist', be it in looks, personality or anything else. Chances are this person just said this for the laugh, but even in doing so, they are reinforcing this damaging myth that so many people do actually believe.

So I think that by picking Dean it gives a powerful message in itself.

And I also believe that both Eastenders, and Kellie Bright(?) did an amazing job with Linda's initial reaction, and the aftermath also.

emanresu esrever · 18-01-2015 04:42PM

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I don't think he actually kicked anyone else out either, did he? They showed Stacey's reaction, I think, but that's because she knows the truth. Don't think anyone else would be that bothered by it really. Plus I'm pretty sure he was directing it at Shirley anyway.

exactly. I think people clearly chose to forget it was closing time amidst the silly staged return line ie "The Party is Over".. I think it would of been far more poignant and less cheesy if they just finished the scene with Mick walking in and Mick and Linda catching Shirley and Dean's eyes. A split second shot, no words and then the Dum Dums.

It is just typical soap drama that they had to throw in that line. The commencement of the next episode could have been Mick asking punters to leave as it was past closing time.

CK73 · 18-01-2015 07:29PM

emanresu esrever wrote: »

dean is one of the most unstable characters in the show?? He has spiked womens drinks with drugs, stolen, drunk drove, attacked his own mother, framed people for crimes out of revenge, been attacked and bullied in prison. There has always been an edge to him.

I really sympathise with your past experience but I don't think a soap opera is going to truly reflect such an event and comparing this to your own experience isnst a positive thing. It's best to throw a blind eye to it.

I think I've missed more episodes than I thought, as I don't remember any of that or the spiking or Stacey thing.

I always thought that Eastenders was something you could dip in and out of and still pretty much know where you are as well and it appears I'm wrong on that one.

I think I'm doomed as the only other person on telly who looks like my Son is on the inbetweeners and he's a complete nightmare in that!!!

I wasn't comparing the rape to my situation by the way. You would never believe it if I told you, although I may write a book about my life one day, it could make interesting reading.

CK73 · 18-01-2015 07:33PM

Zippie84 wrote: »

Yep I can imagine with him looking like your son and your past experiences it must be quite odd and perplexing.

I think as far as the story goes, there are probably other characters that would have made more sense, but I think being a soap they will want maximum drama rather than what makes most sense. Frustrating, I know.

As for the rape thing, I've been raped, knew the person about 12 years and still froze. Another attempted rape with a stranger and I also froze. And got somewhat angry at myself afterwards for that. And I'll probably never quite understand it. I wasn't going to say that before, because I didn't want it to seem like we were scoring points, cos I don't see it that way. We both had negative, different, experiences, and I'm certain that those types of past experiences may give us strong feelings on watching a topic like this unfold on tv.

The fact that he was doing so successful, I'm not sure, but I think that may be a point that they may be trying to get across to people in itself. The many different dynamics to his character. How sometimes he's been so nice, so 'normal', so decent, yet behind that is what he did. And it maybe gives people a lot to think about itself, re the subject of rape.

But I completely get where you are coming from too, about how the character had been portrayed previously (and still is, I guess), and how there are other characters that may have made more sense.

Thinking about it, I think I probably took the Linda rape to be somewhat born from the rejection felt by Dean, and with rape being about power rather than sex, a desperate need for control, and perhaps they are showing him as a person on the outside with one front, but so many deeply rooted issues complex issues behind it, likely stemming from childhood.

Not excusing what he did for one second by saying that, obviously. More so pondering how they are trying to portray Dean.

Jeez, think I type too much - sorry

No one point scores with rape, so I wouldn't have thought that. It's scary how many people have experienced or brushed with it and I'm sorry you were talking from first hand experience too.

We are at least agreed that it is often someone you know, how ever vague that might be. It is rarely a total stranger, unless it's a drink being spiked or a date rape.

Eastenders [News, Spoilers and Discussion]

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