Cork GAA Discussion Thread

N20 wrote: »

This argument is really getting bogged down

Firstly Hurling and Football require different skill sets so what works for one may not work for another but depends on a player - I'm not sure these methods has advanced hurling in Kerry ? but I'm being a little churlish

everyone agrees that science has advanced sport and improved things hugely for players, with knock on benefits for teams, clubs, spectTors etc, no one is suggesting we return to archaic methods of flogging players, no hydration, S&C, nutrition etc

it's the guys who are making careers out of exploiting it to ridiculous levels and the managers that get suckered into placing too much emphasis on it versus the skills of the games, that I for one was raising questions about

the irony is with all the science and progression we have, BURNOUT remains a huge issue for our players and the science and it's application does not seem to be addressing that

The deliberate stupid interpretation of some posts has really dragged this argument into the mire

Regards hurling in Kerry it's nothing to do with failure being associated with science in fact down to resources and playing numbers as you will realise football is actually king in kerry

In fact linxnsw under Carey who you like to mention a lot and foley really bought on to s and c side of the game their and in fact they physically blew ballyhea out of the game and also have given bruff lines with ex limerick minors and talented limerick minor this year kyle dillon huge game
If it wasn't for s and c side of things wouldn't done so well

Wallis coached kilmoey also and hugely improved their fitness and won county


Getting number in kerry problem and when bernine o connor went there he found that and he was a great great I mean really really great coach

Cork man actually I think ex newton man linehan involves in over seeing development under age their doing great work but football will always take precedent understanbly so you

seventh7 wrote: »

100% agree. I have seen underage players at 15 and on the current Cork squads that have undergone very heavy gym work. I have seen bodies on some of these kids that have been sculpted by intensive weight training. I have also noted also that some of the kids have hip problems and logic tells me that this may be coming from squatting with weights. This puts extreme pressure on the labrum which results in tears and excessive wear on still developing tissue. Incorrect use of weights in teenagers has very rapid short term results but long term consenquences. I can see extremely driven kids doing inappropiate things with regards to weight training with little or no supervision. The hurling must come first, the motor skills have to be developed, hand eye coordination is paramount. Build in a good stretching and mobility program and we start to build a player from the ground up. let them hurl day and night if they wish as long as they are not running around with weights they will come to no harm.

Your a huge advocate of this seventh and your always bang on regards it


I think you told us you have degree in this or studied it so when someone like yourself speaks I tend to listen

Am I correct in saying Killan Aherne is classic example of good strength and conditions and wonderful hurling mixed together??

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Always sign of a lad looses debate when goes off tangent regards other players no relevant to the game
Debate the point in question which is Kilkenney will suffer from new rule
They can't have it all their own way
We have actually replaced those players bar the rock

Obviously not yet achieved same standard as rest but cork just need a full back
You need to do more research from the home of hurling surely you know frank murphy is actually a Kilkenney man I belive originally

Kilkenney may well find a full back but there going have huge trouble in holden is not a full back and glynn lad with ucc certainly isn't
I do agree kilkenny won't take age fill full back like cork

why would kilkenny suffer from the new rule, do you not think skill and guts and blood didn't play any part in all the all irelands well the 10 under Cody anyway. who said Holden would be fullback for kilkenny maybe with Ballyhale.

the only ones making noise about kilkenny not getting there own way would be most corkmen, and cork refs alot of it would be now that we are gone well ahead of cork on the roll of honour , as for Glynn lad fullback with ucc whats the story here, tell you he couldn't be any worse than Shane O'Neill has been for cork the last two years
i suppose with Micheal Cussen back with the footballers he might get a run at fullback for the hurlers best of luck in 2015.cheers.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You were the one started the debate and a selection of few decided that science in sport was wrong
You are right certain few here alright brought argument to absolutely ridiculous views

With reference to mention of stupidity Only stupirdly on the topic s imo people actually don't bar few know understand concept science in sport

TTM, what did Daly ever do to you. Your condescending manner in which you try to to get your argument across is fairly pathetic. People are entitled to their opinion, whether you like it or not. If your way of winning an argument, is to bore people to death with your essays, then you are right, most people wont bother responding.
What Daly said is (not exact quote, but the same idea(read the book)) "that you have to go 90:10 split in favour of Hurling over the other stuff. In 2012, Dublin did it the other way round, and no matter how much stuff you do outside Hurling, if you don't get the ball first, none of the rest of it matters"
Every single team in the world has an element of "science" to their preperation. But unless you get the stuff on the field right, no amount of science will win you the game. Are you counting "Psychological" as a science, i have no doubt you are. Because Daly is one of the best Psychological Managers in the Business.
It was interesting that you lauded Niall Moran in one of your earlier quotes about "science" and today he is on about how it was getting too much in schools.
What you regard as "science" appears to be a very very broad term that covers everything outside of the drills and exercises done on the pitch. Just because a college offer a course on a subject, doesn't make it a "science".

As regards, your method of belittling others "knowledge" with your comments. If YOU were so knowledgeable on the aspects of the game, then i suggest you go down to your local club (are you a member of one??) and give a hand on the training field.

p.s. Less is more sometimes.

ontheditch2 wrote: »

TTM, what did Daly ever do to you. Your condescending manner in which you try to to get your argument across is fairly pathetic. People are entitled to their opinion, whether you like it or not. If your way of winning an argument, is to bore people to death with your essays, then you are right, most people wont bother responding.
What Daly said is (not exact quote, but the same idea(read the book)) "that you have to go 90:10 split in favour of Hurling over the other stuff. In 2012, Dublin did it the other way round, and no matter how much stuff you do outside Hurling, if you don't get the ball first, none of the rest of it matters"
Every single team in the world has an element of "science" to their preperation. But unless you get the stuff on the field right, no amount of science will win you the game. Are you counting "Psychological" as a science, i have no doubt you are. Because Daly is one of the best Psychological Managers in the Business.
It was interesting that you lauded Niall Moran in one of your earlier quotes about "science" and today he is on about how it was getting too much in schools.
What you regard as "science" appears to be a very very broad term that covers everything outside of the drills and exercises done on the pitch. Just because a college offer a course on a subject, doesn't make it a "science".

As regards, your method of belittling others "knowledge" with your comments. If YOU were so knowledgeable on the aspects of the game, then i suggest you go down to your local club (are you a member of one??) and give a hand on the training field.

p.s. Less is more sometimes.

I debates the point with articles that proved points and others agreed

People gave a post I replied
It's same old scenario here though people like you pick and choose what you see
My style debating is give logic and examples
I would appreciate that your talking about belittle posts you actually look at please one post here that actually insulted me personally where no need for it

Please be fair and equal if your going to judge
I'm huge fan moran coaching you are correct
He Brough science in to Ard scoil and super coach


Daly made a comment regards science in gaa
I debates it as another poster said it was wrong suggest it has little effect when o neill mcguinness kinnerks actually won stuff among others with it

Now I never belittle daly
I said a fact yes a fact he's good manager but never won senior all irelands as coach

In terms belittle will you please be good to review the mocking comments regards ed coughlan and say others not belittle man proven in science as another poster correctly said rather than single me out
Please be fair and equal if you criticse my style have courtesy judge others by same merits please

Some great news I belive on the way for cork gaa in the next week great great news.

and by the way on his day Noel Hickey was one of the best fullbacks in the game better than JJ, who was one of the best wing backs in the game along with offalys Brian Whelehan.

Cork hurling panel will be finalised pretty soon for the league

I'd have im my panel

Goal keeper nash and Mccarthy
I had great concerns regards him as a half forward for cork and I think he has showed nothing to suggest he's inter county
Don't mind this give it time lark
On panel few years and also playing club hurling there so imo no excuses
Should be sub goalie but collins county him unlucky hes been brillant
Certainly on the radar and will be under twenty next year

Full back
Cahalane but he's injury record is poor and he had double hip replacement so cover must be got
Colm Barry is not full back neither is shane o neill nor is mcdonnell or butler or sullivan etc imo
Dennehy should got call up and nagle also

Huge worry going forward in cork not only need full back need cover too

Eddie gunning should got games imo as he has everything imo for senior full back and should be groomed like the rock at nineteen was at corner back if available
Colm Spillane if he recovers from the new treatments he is getting with injury

I hope he is not lost to the game at full back like darragh roger was at full back due to injury
As for cork full back coming up the ranks just watch sean o leary hayes as massive potential for minor next year
Everything you want in a full back
Such a natural instinct for full back play. Has pace and balance of feet also.
Tremendous attuide on the field.

Collins and meade and o donughe and lee were used and meade and lee still in school hurling gunning imo should have been
I still don't believe jbm realises the gravity of the situation at cork full back we have imo at present.

Corner backs
O neill
O Sullivan
Mcdonnell
Burke
I'd have him there in mcdonnell could play half back or even midfield in possessions game and played their as minor
Stephen murphy must be injured as was on panel never got game so far

Half back line

Colm Barry
Joyce
Ellis and Cormac Murphy
Lorchan mcloughlin

Midfield
Kearney and o shea
Walsh and coughlan
It was said here Murray could be developed in time
How much times does he need
He's been cork minors and under twenty one teams and subbed and with ucc and he's been poor and inconsistent
No where near senior imo
Impressive last year canon Michael o brien final yet sub standard for ucc against elite opponents had been taken off
Im sorry but if people can't see this we'll then they should look at Kilkenney midfield play.
Kevin hennesy said cork need battlers as well as hurlers
Murray is the fast tippy hurler but won't do in the coal face of modern midfield play

Half forward

Lehane
Shane o keoffe
John cronin
Alan Frahill o connor
Seamie harnedy
Bill Cooper

Daire lordan never got game time despite in panel hopefully v cit will and much better trying develop young guy than playing walsh who at he's age won't improved and had two games already
Not fair lordan doesn't get chance
Cian mac I don't care who son is he or how much hurling he has  he is lacks mobility for senior elite intercounty county and has been given plenty chances since 2010
No one can say he didn't get a fair crack at it to be fair
But this is he's fifth year in all fairness.

Lawton didn't do enough unless he does it v WExford challenge and ballyhale. Last chance saloon imo for a few cork players

To be fair to john horgan tonight he said lawton and haughey should be making a greater impact in there around a while the panel now

Horgan, he's castle matyra man but he realises lawton must start making a mark now
I always admire honesty within

Imo he had plenty chances, totally unfair others not getting same chance like outstanding john cronin who done everything asked for minor, under twenty one and junior and intermediate football hurling for corl He always give a work rate and honesty and consistency in any cork game he ever played imo.
Yes he needs be developed but imo would with good coaching

Full forward

Anthony Spillane
Cadogan
Cronin
Farell
Paudie
Horgan
Moylan

Carry big panel and try and mix and match for league and Every one yes that includes patrick horgan the undoubted talents of cork hurling but in some eyes that seems to be immune criticism unlike cronin and kearney who got unfair criticism at times by fans imo,
No reason why if manager cork I wouldnt drop him

Every player. Must gets fair chance and I don't give a care where there from,or what ethic group they represent, or whether they are  gay   heterosexual , bio asexual,Whether they wear pink, black, green,yellow, a red even tights  (tights were mentioned here last week cork player wore them,I see no issue with it ) or if they wear none  at all , whether they have figi roots or other non irish roots etc or from east corl , West. North or south or mid cork it imo doesn't matter at the end of the day once they can play hurling and are the best available in cork at any given time.
All other stuff is immaterial just my opinion.
There being judged soley and purely as cork hurlers ability wise nothing more nothing less.
I hope some day cork will continue the way in modern ethic ireland and have   players from different ethics groups in senior football and hurling teams for cork and I'd love see such players win all ireland with cork


Sean og was a wonderful example by cork in bringing in sean og a great really really great player with figi roots

There's few outstanding prospect in hurling and football imo not from ireland originally but living here now,  two in particular in hurling that are young but imo huge potential and one in football I expect be playing senior club football soon and these lads immense credit are really fantastic ambassador for their clubs and school and county of origin.

There living in ireland now and we're lucky to have these talent imo. We should avail of their talents on the field of play if they choose to stay playing gaa and are not lost to other sports

That simple when judging a player. Talent all you judge on. That's all you ask is player X best available player in cork this moment in time in this potential and if not has he more scope for potential than Mr y
Treat it like a mathematical complex problem in applying logic and common sense and breaking it down you will always always find a solution that actually works imo
Same concept of thought and reasonable logic must apply in my opinion.

And we're gone from three year development plan with jbm that I advocated give time as be fair took over cork in a shambles due to neglect at under age but look three years are gone now every year from here on in is about winning an all ireland, as set base now to work off and let's not  revel in moral victory or munster titles land or rely on divine inspiration cork can control their own destiny if they choose

Canon Michael o brien (rip) was a hugely religious man and yes went mass before games but he never really relied on divine inspiration he actually was imo the hurling genuis that provided inspiration and in 1990 he drove in cork car reg 1990 27c in to ist training session of the year
He made a wonderful statement of intent

That was the year cork won the twenty seventh all ireland in their roll of honour
he controlled what he could control
Paul o connell in munster rubgy says control the controllables

Cork hurling attuide imo must be like the greats I mean now the really really greats of gaa Kilkenney and kerry and corl ladies football always wanting more, and can never imo have limerick attuide imo

As for cork football moving on swiftly to matters closer to home cork rating of players again imo I'd ls too soft at times in no ruthless annalise and that's bad imo as managers never put under any pressure so selector never justified and no case of any responsibility or ownership ever taken imo

O donoughue like I said deserved praise
However again not complete judgement when the ptich as I said before game the day before clonmel is poor after rain and imo was like a bog sunday
Cork are heavily training for the last twelve weeks around and flangan as boys physically and fitness tip top shape

Donoughue was turned easily at times by sweemey and in fast ptich like portlaoise ot Thurles or killarney o donoughue kerry or burke Galway, Wallace meath will absolutely destroy him for pace and make a great centre back look poor

Tipperary are just back half that time training wise and no where up to cork fitness yet

Cork physically blew them yesterday but on a footballing sense with game plan cork imo were way off . Midfield and a defined system play and scoring from play were not much better
Both tipp and cork got eight points from play and cork have better scoring forwards but never got quality ball also huge worry tipp scores play in both half cork failed to score once from play in the second half.
Yes cork FAILED TO SCORE FROM PLAY IN AROU THIRTY SEVEN MINUTES in the second half.
Against the wind is no excuse imo.
It was bad but Christ it was hardly a hurricane imo.

Collins said tonight cork have been under flangan running a lot
I said before I heard flangan fitness wise has them super shaper
Problem imo is lacking coach in football sense
Here like argument earlier fitness and strength conditions must be balanced no point one with out the other
Car can't run on petrol or disel alone needs other components, same concept

Cork last year went long spells in games without scoring and the Same problem again clearly evident in the mcgrath cup

But this is what you get when you have no defined coach.
A senior elite team with aspirations of all ireland finals, Now I don't mean sligo with respect to them, and with respect to cuthbhert may think their our all ireland final, I'm sorry their not, this imo is simply not on imo
Cork grassroots fans have high standard for cork football.we know it can do better.

Loughrey was good At times
but as I said physically powerful and yesterday game suited him but I'n faster game he'll be taken at corner back as he's one v one defending is poor again any top corner forward in the game

Hazel was okay and is soild club player but huge gap to intercounty
Imo he wasn't he turned over loads ball and was never as be fair said tested defensive wise but he's no where near senior Imo.
It's an unfair ask imo in never played underage for cork at any level and I don't think starter on ucc teams


Is he better than white. Crowley. Clancy boys, Dorman. Loughrey, O driscoll etc.
No he is not imo.

Cussen got game even though they knew he had hamstrings but thought it was fine
Anyone has hamstrings problem I had them myself means your don't risk it in heavy ground especially
Midfield was just okay as a unit but majestic collins carried them
Modern midfielder must win aerial ball but be mobile to chase down opponent short kick outs, an engine like a Ferrari to cover huge milage. Hunger of a wolves and the bravery of shea fahyOr Aidan walsh or teddy maccsrthy , etc to contest balls and even with no  hamstrings he imo won't do these requirements in big big games imo

Cork football some see him as the saviour and it'd unfair on him imo expect him do jobs he won't simply be able to so.

It was must be remembered that o brien was pivot there last year for tipp yet absent and Colm o riordain is half back or midfielder not full forward
Clancy was in trouble at times and one such mistake gave o riordain a goal chance that he took poorly
Do that to Michael murphy, Sean cavanagh , brogan, the star , there will be only one result make no mistake about it.
That's a given fact imo.

cork play hazel and sullivan at half back yet we have loughrey o donughe and clancy yet we play them full back
Thank god Dorman is with ucc or he would be full back
This talk of experimenting for cork is wrong in cork need a settled team and imo can't chop and change like last year and with shields likely to be out for the league full back line must be settled imo not this nonsense of musical chairs
some I talk to at match believe also not worry regards system in go orthodox while you give new lads game time
I don't agree, if your trying new lads you must play them in the system you will play in championship to test are their game adaptable to that particular type of system you are implementing.

Cork team being announced Thursday night now it seem to have changed from early announcement of last year

Midfield huge huge concern going forward

Desmond had full twenty minutes make impact.
I'm sorry now but he kicked away aimless ball at times

Durrant had thirteen minutes yes not much but he didn't stand out in terms of when he had the ball he had no killer pass

As for George durrant he's good club man but imo cork have much better than him in collins, o rourke, Vaughan much much much better, sugrue, kelly brian o driscoll ten times better if played as half forward
I remember five years ago munster final minors cork won when hurley gave a beautiful dink mike Gibson be proud of, and got goal time up cork win,best way beat kerry is by a point, o rourke absolutely destroyed durrant at midfield with Jamie burns also from barrs so much so durrant was with drawn.
O rourke imo is dogged like durrant in he's commitment is fine but o rourke has guile and creative instinctive durrant doesn't have
I just don't see creativity in him.
Man of the match is fine in county final??? Who was he's opponent??
Hardly elite With greatest respect to he's opponent in senior elite intercounty level
Though he was  okay v Dr crokes and offered little creativity in that game
Okay won't do in killarney v kerry.

Now durrant has obviously got physically stronger and being a physical trainer himself fitness won't be a problem but still I just don't see he's potential to senior elite, a soild club player I have no doubt, i could be wrong of course with him and I love to be wrong with him

The best people to ask regards durrant are kerry people and anyone I ask say would not be kerry senior so for that reason imo not cork potential

He's living in cork but ballincollig isn't far training in killarney and short drive in respect alan o connor who had nearly four hour round trip In cork to train etc so if he's that good could played with kerry
He's good club player and to be fair out of cussen. Hodnett, Desmond, then hazel, etc he's not huge wild card like them imo and fine club player no doubt.

If durrant was best cork I wouldnt have care n he kerry man I'd still pick him, my concern is he is picked over notion he's kerry blood by management
Yes argument he got mom county final picking on form I'f so why didn't others get fair trial Like at midfield etc

Some balloncollig fans at the match sunday I talked to, you can see with respect but not all them I talked to think this management has turned a corner simply cause cuthbhert picking lads like sullivan. Jennings and durrant and imo should be no where near the panel but there In very happy as there club men are being picked

If there were with any other club they would say there not best in cork
The same people are the very ones to wonder then why kerry always beat us and will always questions then when kerry win as cork football has huge problems
But they won't say a thing not a whisper content as their club men are on the panel and all I heard was yesterday was be positive. Row in behind team new season yet during the year they wanted cuthbhert make changes

All the same how some views just cause balloncollig have a major share in the cork senior football panel and they never had it so good
Classic example of all that what is wrong imo with cork football.
Once it is not on your doorstep nobody cares.
What a difference a year makes all the same in some eyes.
Kelly donoughue kiely deserve to be there on merit imo
Rest are not the best available in cork currently imo



Jbm said will pick same team if he can for cit
It's being named Wednesday

He should give lordan Stephen Murphy etc games
He can't play team started if beat cit for tipp or clare imo in tippeeary or clare will have strong core out
Tippeeary beat WExford in a challenge and has strong core out

Its been good three games for cork in three wins but the tipp clare game has to be fine tuned for Kilkenney game and Spillane ineligible for game so imo must start v WExford in challenge for Kilkenney game
I said last year cadogan would be fine and had to start

My two young hurling stars I feel could make huge impressive contribution to cork are Anthony Spillane and Cormac Murphy
I guarantee anyone hear if Spillane starts v Kilkenney he will absolutely Be brilliant against there full back line as we have seen nothing compared to what we will see with Spillane yet in Kilkenney game he'd relish and he would simply go above another level.
He's attuide is exactly what you want against them, oozes send belief, breathes self confidence and is bullish tough no nonsense hurlers with awesomeric skill imo with lovely balance and by has he pace.
Awesome talent imo. A hurler but a warrior also.

I watched him a lot through the years the real deal like Cormac murphy
They don't need chance after chance like some they hit the ground running
Murphy has got stronger physically and is hugely different player two years ago and has awesome hurling on both sides and aggressive hurling he has
He now has the confidence and knows he made for this level
Imo cork player intermediate all ireland winning team last year despite playing just four out of the five games


Yes there will be different cases like lee and meade just out minor who done exceptional in their games so far that these young lads need abs must get time to develop so cork need be patient information about
They imo two huge prospect for the future but imo should training with senior panel but imo not in league considerations when others imo are ahead of their development at this time but imo their time will come
No need to rush them



It was referenced here  Tracy Kennedy is huge loss to cork gaa twitter and imo I totally agree she really brought cork gaa twitter in to a new world
Her word press every week report on killeagh imo outstanding Role model all club should aspire to
Unfortunately it's robbing the rich and give to the poor imo as the huge gains in her at vice chairperson will undoubtedly be felt at pro in my opinion and Tracey set the standard others imo owe it to her legacy as pro to follow in her footsteps
She was a great I mean great now really really great pro for cork and will be a wonderful chair person and hopefully chair some great great I mean really really great day in the future now.

homeofhurling wrote: »

and by the way on his day Noel Hickey was one of the best fullbacks in the game better than JJ, who was one of the best wing backs in the game along with offalys Brian Whelehan.

No doubt hickey was great and huge fan he's a hurling man inside out
He played with response inter firm charville last year win all ireland medal and played most games this year bar the cork final that thry lost

I don't doubt him as full back I felt jj was better though

homeofhurling wrote: »

if you look back to last years draw game seamus callianan gave JJ the run around and if it had of been anyone else fullback Cody would have took him off Richie Hogan saved our arse in that final.

I think jj had good game and made one awesome hook on callinan

I don't think it'd true with Cody he's proven many times reputation mean nothing he'd take off any player

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your a huge advocate of this seventh and your always bang on regards it


I think you told us you have degree in this or studied it so when someone like yourself speaks I tend to listen

Am I correct in saying Killan Aherne is classic example of good strength and conditions and wonderful hurling mixed together??

Yes I do have a backround in the subject matter. I dont want to focus on any individual players but I will name you three underage players which in my opinion have been left to develope at there own pace with no resort to gym work. John Sullivan, Blackrock, Paul Lyons Mallow and Killian Aherne Na Parasaigh. If you watch all three play you will see the similarities. All three are late developers, the three have excellent touch and awareness they have flirted with Cork underage squads without ever being considered A Grade. Two have been very impressive In the Harty despite their young age. They are yet not as explosive as some of the underage stars but their natural games are intact. Lyons has impecable movement and striking. O' Sullivan has a great hand and is a natural reader of the game. Aherne strikes equally as well off both sides and has very good control of the sliothar for a big lad. Being considered not good enough for Cork A sides over the last 2 years has left these kids off winter training panels ect. This in my opinion has saved them from the inevitable overtraining and hyberbole which accompanies inclusion in Cork underage squads.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-gaa-star-mulcahy-comes-out-to-help-others-306782.html

Unbelievable courage by Valerie
Fair play to her for breaking the silence
Cork are proud and lucky to have her

Figsy32 wrote: »

The three Harty games are called off!

I knew mallow would be last night the game ptich was rock frozen

Unsure others
Thanks

Ard scoil had peter casey out and ronan lynch was injured with back injury so likely they may be fit Next day

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/1401150735-aidan-walsh-vows-to-right-the-wrongs-of-2014/

Great great I mean really really great read here

Walsh hurling will improve by another ten per cent this year
He imo will be contention for an all star

I hope you are right as in my opinion he has made too many mistakes on the field of play in both codes to merit all these column inches.
He sure is a media darling.