Cork GAA Discussion Thread

commonsense. wrote: »

Yeah, shocking forecast. Games could be in doubt I'd say. If they all go ahead I hope the wind isn't too strong and gusty. I never minded playing in the rain myself but always hated wind.

Yeah I will say for sure I've never seen a game played in such bad conditions as the Hammies v Ard S Ris last year, the wind was unbelievable, to be honest for a Harty semi final it probably shouldn't have been played, don't think it would have changed the result. Looks like they're going to have to play in a storm again as from that day it showed the pitch in Mallow can take a lot of rain.

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Yeah I will say for sure I've never seen a game played in such bad conditions as the Hammies v Ard S Ris last year, the wind was unbelievable, to be honest for a Harty semi final it probably shouldn't have been played, don't think it would have changed the result. Looks like they're going to have to play in a storm again as from that day it showed the pitch in Mallow can take a lot of rain.

If I remember fight the Rochestown College / Doon game called off last minute sameday

weather will be leveller alright

Mallow will take a fair share of rain but caher and charleville very heavy ground

N20 wrote: »

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

I have no issue with a scientific approach to sport and undoubtedly it has advanced the game, improved player health, strength and performance

it the extremes, the makey up stuff, the over analysis that bugs me.

I was never a big fan of clipboard man but I accept stats have a place

it's when it takes over it gets ridiculous, and that's the point I think Anthony Daly was making. I wouldn't be in favour of analysts and medics running teams

it should primarily be all about the hurling - I don't think you can manufacture a hurler

Good to see you changed your attuide, fair play, quite understandable with logic clearly showing nonsense was being spoken just my opinion of course

Hurleratheart wrote: »

If I remember fight the Rochestown College / Doon game called off last minute sameday

weather will be leveller alright

Mallow will take a fair share of rain but caher and charleville very heavy ground

Will game go ahead in cahir do you think with the rain

Cu Baire wrote: »

Your original comments were quite clear N20 and you were particularly clear about finding a balance.
Your mistake was partially agreeing with Anthony Daly who cannot be given any credit on this forum as he is not one of the favoured ones.

Thank you for putting up clear concise and impartial posts. keep it up.

It would be great if you could then show us where where going wrong and give us reasons to understand and debate argument for daly side in a clear and concise post

Thank in advance

Nobody has proved daly has any bit of logic when all ireland winner including Kilkenney at school level play huge part in strength conditions

I could include their minors also but I surely have given enough examples

Daly you will find if your review the post here got credit many times in the past however over all ireland winners like o neill , o grady. Wallis , wall, flood the logical thought process from my view is to take all ireland winner as gospel over a guy that has actually never came close all ireland as manager

Ed coughlan didn't win all ireland but he's record is far more impressive than daly in scientific field

Daly was good but hardly great I mean great now really really great manager tbh

dcrosskid wrote: »

I think you are being fairly harsh on Daly there ttm1. No one has claimed he was/is a really great manger in fairness but what he has done is brought Dublin to new levels and made them a far more competitive team. Something that I didn't think I would ever see was them beating Kilkenny in championship hurling & following it up with a win over Galway, as well as a league where they blew KK away.

I havn't read that article but taking what has been said here, he said a 90-10 split should be hurling. I might be coming from the wrong angle here but he is now in charge of the Limerick underage academy or whatever you call it, but I think he would be right to be promoting this split in young kids coming through for Limerick. We do not need 14, 15 or even 16 year olds lifting weights or worrying about carbs, protein or the likes and perhaps thats the angle he was coming from. a 90/10 split seems logical to me in this case.

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

homeofhurling wrote: »

see Anthony Nash on about how goalkeepers will deal with the new penalty rule . well his to blame for the new rule the way he ran nearly onto the goalline before hitting it i see he was beaten by one last week he won't be a happy bunny i'd say when he is turn up sidedown a few times in the cork net now that only the keeper lines the goal.

Yes nash was the first ever to do it and no one else did

I don't think so and it's been well proven at this stage Davy john Fenton many others did it

If I was a Kilkenney man I'd actually be leaning towards nash old style as the wheel I fear will turn a full circle as now goalies have no chance save penalty and kilkenny now awesome jj retires will actually suffer imo hugely and their days stopping man and ball are long gone as any penalty will be a goal
Interesting as season prevail to watch Eddie keher change he's tune imo

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

As I have said I haven't seen the article, (did someone post the link?) but what I will say is that the Dubs have been one of the most powerful and fittest teams over the last few years, which imo was a huge factor in them being able to compete with KK fairly well on a good few occasions during Daly's tenure. So I would be very surprised if Daly wasn't embracing sport sciences given the athletic make up of the Dubs. In fact many thought they had gone over board with their fitness and not concentrated on enough hurling.

However I am slightly surprised that he would say its a 90/10 split at senior level (if that is what he said) because that is not the case. 50/50 would be a far more accurate estimate at the requirements a player needs now. Considering the amount of time spent in gyms, physio tables, pools, ice baths, stretching, foam rolling, watching their diets, that would accumulate to an awful amount of time. Having seen many Tipp players in my own local gym I can testify to the long hours they put in off season, as i'm sure every serious county player is doing now.

Therefor I would conclude that Daly was referring to his new role of looking after younger players by promoting a 90/10 split focusing on hurling.

dcrosskid wrote: »

As I have said I haven't seen the article, (did someone post the link?) but what I will say is that the Dubs have been one of the most powerful and fittest teams over the last few years, which imo was a huge factor in them being able to compete with KK fairly well on a good few occasions during Daly's tenure. So I would be very surprised if Daly wasn't embracing sport sciences given the athletic make up of the Dubs. In fact many thought they had gone over board with their fitness and not concentrated on enough hurling.

However I am slightly surprised that he would say its a 90/10 split at senior level (if that is what he said) because that is not the case. 50/50 would be a far more accurate estimate at the requirements a player needs now. Considering the amount of time spent in gyms, physio tables, pools, ice baths, stretching, foam rolling, watching their diets, that would accumulate to an awful amount of time. Having seen many Tipp players in my own local gym I can testify to the long hours they put in off season, as i'm sure every serious county player is doing now.

Therefor I would conclude that Daly was referring to his new role of looking after younger players by promoting a 90/10 split focusing on hurling.

That's the ist actual logic post I read here among other jargon be fair It's balanced views


Nobody ever wanted athletes over hurling but it's impossible be hurler on modern game unless your an athlete first and foremost

Daly spoke a huge amount nonsense when like you said he actually befitted from strength and conditions at dublin


Every team won all ireland at any level has had huge part in strength conditions etc
If daly can prove one team done this with just ten per cent split I'd take notice but it's like looking for needle in a haystack he won't find one where a team won all ireland with ten per cent split over team with fifty fifty


It all about balance

No team will won all ireland without balance of speed work agility and strength conditions and nutrition and basic skills game combination of real real tactical nous in management and game flow management


I agree in development squads must be balanced but you got start young as proven starting at nineteen is too late
Science proves it
Problem is not the strength and conditions or gym work problem is how and when it's done

Like there is a cork under age team at moment that currently do cardiovascular training and gym work some times same nights
That's wrong as even average gym goer tell you you don't do weights same day as running etc as muscles are tired and you strain them increase risk of injury


It has huge part of the game once done correctly and not like something you see out of a rocky movie

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

What proof is there that science is the vital ingredient. I have seen no Leitrim, cavan, Wicklow coming on leaps and bounds with new scientific approaches. The same counties are coming out on top in the science era and the pre science era. Nothing magic happened in Kerry when O Neill was there but its just that the media have a love affair with the new phenomenon. I think Joe Brolly is talking a lot of sense on this whole issue.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/brolly-warns-of-donegal-shock-205341.html

Brolly spoke many times in awe Donegal approach he actually lauded and said others should go that way
He was impressed by Donegal training
Now he gone other way
He speaks sense at times but he is he'll bent on being controversial imo and I admire brolly for what he does for kidney cause in ireland greatly but he runs hair chases hound at times with gaa views


He'll go against kerry now wait and see
He will preach next phenomenon but then just then get attention he will change tack so manytimes he forgets which side he's actually on

Joe I'm sorry but you can't sit on both sides of the fence

Moyna actually has degree and knows field he talking about with respect to joe he doesn't have expertise in the field

Smith614 wrote: »

What proof is there that science is the vital ingredient. I have seen no Leitrim, cavan, Wicklow coming on leaps and bounds with new scientific approaches. The same counties are coming out on top in the science era and the pre science era. Nothing magic happened in Kerry when O Neill was there but its just that the media have a love affair with the new phenomenon. I think Joe Brolly is talking a lot of sense on this whole issue.

Sorry to butt in here now, but Kerry's approach to training, Strength & Conditioning changed completely under O'Neill. Pat Flanagan before him had taken things up a notch but O'Neill has taken it up a level again. When you hear the Gooch say he's the best trainer he ever worked with, then you know there's something special there. He is excellent for players also in that he doesn't flog them for 6-8 months. As can be seen by Kerry's league results in recent years, the aim is to have a mini-peak in fitness in July for Munster Final, then a lull (results dependant) followed by hitting peak fitness for the year in August.
I have to laugh at the lads scoffing at Sports Science here given that there are still counties flogging players with Stone age training methods out there. I saw an interview recently with a Westmeath player going on about the "old school" approach of their current trainer and how he reckoned it was good..loads of laps etc..That said 2 things to me. 1. The trainer is a dinosaur with no clue how to train a modern team. 2. Players do not necessarily know what is best for them and in a lot of cases need to be told.
Some people scoffing at the Ed Coughlan interview, specifically his mention of "weak eye" training. Now, fair enough, that is never going to be done except with a rare few high level teams and it certainly isn't a priority, but if you think its bullsh*t, you are mistaken. Coughlan has the academic credentials to back up what he is saying, whether you like him or not.
All that being said, I do wonder where we are going with all this in terms of getting kids to keep playing our games. It's becoming less and less enjoyable to play at any level, even club level with all that's going on. I think a properly structured club and county calendar would help enormously for one thing but I don't trust the GAA to do it. The current proposal of "oh just finish everything in the calendar year" is head in the sand stuff and unrealistic.

N20 wrote:

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

Seems to be a bit of this on this forum from what I can see. I'd say 'deliberate misinterpretation' for whatever reason. I suppose some people have nothing better to do and like to be controversial just for the sake of it.

commonsense. wrote: »

Seems to be a bit of this on this forum from what I can see. I'd say 'deliberate misinterpretation' for whatever reason. I suppose some people have nothing better to do and like to be controversial just for the sake of it.

Touche

N20 wrote: »

This argument is really getting bogged down

Firstly Hurling and Football require different skill sets so what works for one may not work for another but depends on a player - I'm not sure these methods has advanced hurling in Kerry ? but I'm being a little churlish

everyone agrees that science has advanced sport and improved things hugely for players, with knock on benefits for teams, clubs, spectTors etc, no one is suggesting we return to archaic methods of flogging players, no hydration, S&C, nutrition etc

it's the guys who are making careers out of exploiting it to ridiculous levels and the managers that get suckered into placing too much emphasis on it versus the skills of the games, that I for one was raising questions about

the irony is with all the science and progression we have, BURNOUT remains a huge issue for our players and the science and it's application does not seem to be addressing that

The deliberate stupid interpretation of some posts has really dragged this argument into the mire

You were the one started the debate and a selection of few decided that science in sport was wrong
You are right certain few here alright brought argument to absolutely ridiculous views

With reference to mention of stupidity Only stupirdly on the topic s imo people actually don't bar few know understand concept science in sport