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I'm a tenant and my landlord is over his head

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,314 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Einstein? wrote: »
    Especially when we require a good reference for our next letting and when the sum of that deposit is substantial enough that we are partly relying on it for our next letting, I think he should cop on.
    You can do a PTRB complaint, and maybe get the money back in a year or so. Otherwise take drastic steps to sort the issue. Short term, only you will lose if he doesn't "cop on".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    Einstein? wrote: »
    Between my girlfriend and I, we've rented out over 30 rooms/ apartments in multiple countries including Australia, New Zealand and Spain.

    We have treated all of these the same and have had no issues drying clothes inside on a clothes horse. I've only experienced damp/mold build up once when I was a student and had a small single room that had a structural problem in the wall - admitted by the landlord, and we kept on removing it, and we got on well.

    I'm not anti landlord or anti any group of people. I think my current landlord is not being fair - especially after having a host of extremely nice landlords previously. Let me tell you, that after paying our substantial rent every month for the past year including this month's, and allowing him to do the work he should have done prior to letting the apartment again (he let it straight after a 5-year long let) throughout 2014 without any complaints or any objections; that he should then blame this mold build up on us and to then slyly suggest and hint that he may deduct or even withhold the deposit which we gave him without hesitation is not one bit fair. Especially when we require a good reference for our next letting and when the sum of that deposit is substantial enough that we are partly relying on it for our next letting, I think he should cop on.


    If you/ye are in yer 20/30's and have rented over 30 rooms/apartments, ye must be getting kicked out of some, or maybe have not stayed longer than 6 months in any and had ye stayed in any of these longer, dampness would probably have been a problem.

    I was told by a previous tenent that one of my properties was very damp in the back room, I asked them were they heating the room and opening the window during the day, they assured me they were. I moved back into the property myself before renovating, I cleaned the mould/damp spots. I never turned on the heating in that room, I opened the window to the 1inch opening that you can lock the small part of the window. Voila, 18 months and no damp!! I now have the place rented out again, I checked after 3 months, the bathroom window/wall was showing damp signs, I had provided a squeegee to wipe down the tiles after shower/bath and asked the open the window for 15 min when finished, to let out the excess moisture, I could tell they weren't doing this.

    I pointed out the damp and very sternly said the windows were to be opened daily!!! for a short period. If they didnt do that, I would not be able to extend the lease due to damage. They open the windows now and there is no damp, they're happy, I'm happy :) I did also say about the clothes horse in sitting room, as I know I don't like opening a window in the sitting roomto let the heat out. But told them use the airer in the utility room and leave the window open, job done.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If the property is properly insulated you would not need to be opening windows every day.

    My dads house is from late 50's build and insulation was a minimum to none.
    The house was dry lined about 15 years ago maybe more and there has never been any mould or damp since these improvements, saying improvements these were diy and not done on the outside.

    Clothes are dried inside mostly in winter and dryer going at times also along with the windows not been opened since I would guess August maybe even longer and they wouldn't be open every day either.

    I would guess a wash on at least 1 every day as the women in the house love washing everything.


    I live in a house built in last 20 years with alright insulation not the may west but there is no damp whatsoever and we only use a stove to heat the house.
    We have no drier and no way of drying clothes outside as they do not allow it in the area.

    We do not or would not open windows every day as work and that so security also. We do open when weather is'nt to bad and would every so often to air the house out anyway. During the summer it is a warm house so windows would be open a lot but winter not much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Talk of structural issues causing damp is best kept for the pub. If you really want to go down that path then its engineers reports etc. which is a waste of time/miney.
    The landlord knows that once you start the blame game then he'll keep the deposit and let you launch the big costly crusade hoping the PRTB will come to the rescue.

    The fact that the OP is making it difficult for the LL to view, only gives that LL one option to cover the vacancy that may follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 bobslifeforu


    Einstein? wrote: »
    What am I entitled to do in such situations?

    Neither my girlfriend or I have had bad experiences with landlords before and they were never so nosy.

    Truth telling -

    I had to lodge PRTB claim 4 yrs ago as a tenant, it was the most uninformative / uninteractive process I've ever been through. I submitted my claim and then nothing for 9 months (calls to their office were responded to with "it's being processed"). It took 9 months for me to get 75% of my deposit back and i was too exhausted to dispute the rest.

    The only advice i can give is if you think it's going to end up with the PRTB start documenting everything now. All correspondence should be done via text or email (backed up to email if it's a text (judge Judy don't care about lost phones) ). If the landlord says something serious as you're about to leave the property eg "before you go i need to get somebody in to look at the dampness that clothes horse is causing", try to end the conversation on the phone (subtly) and continue it in writing just for a paper trail.

    Take photos of all rooms and their problem spots now and every month until the lease is done.

    i don't know what the landlord is like so you'll have to judge how to approach them if they decide to contest the deposit. But don't get hostile, if they mention they're keeping it they've obviously thought about it. Tell them calmly you don't agree with their decision, list your reasons, remind them you were a good tenant for so long and if they still wont budge remind them that you're willing and prepared to bring it to the PRTB and that you've documented the state of the property over that last few months.

    Gods speed fellow tenant person.
    (PS: landlords and other defenders of any cause, i've been tenant for a long time and have never once damage a property or had a complaint from neighbors or guards... that landlord was just a d1ck)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If it doesn't suit the op/tenant for viewings it does have to be arranged as we all know this is their home(not thier own property) at suitable times and if it were me when all my things are in the property I would not allow viewings if I was not there as the risk of things just walking out the door.

    I suggested earlier to the op to look up threshold for advice and others said about sample letters which are all on their site and go the right way as if a case has to be brought to the PRTB then it will help the op case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    OP, did you raise the issue of dampness with the ll? Did he ever investigate it?

    Secondly, you are being unreasonable not allowing viewings. I suggest you review that decision. It only makes the situation worse in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Einstein? wrote: »
    I mentioned this age thing because he brought it up in his argument over the phone saying that he is much older than us and he has more experience about mold and dampness ...
    So it's been a regular problem then? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wonder op is he a cavan lad:pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    Wonder op is he a cavan lad:pac:
    :mad::D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,870 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Einstein? wrote: »
    But this doesn't correlate with the damness in the bedroom which is like a mile away from the clothes hoarse or the area in the kitchen

    The moisture (water vapour) being generated in the kitchen from the clothes horse (and other activities) is diffusing and seeking equilibrium concentration through the space available (i.e the whole apartment). This vapour is then condensing on any surface whose temperature is at or below the dew point of the air supporting the vapour. As bedrooms are generally cooler than the kitchen / living area, the dampness is showing up in the bedroom area. So distance from source to problem is immaterial in this context.
    Einstein? wrote: »

    I'm a scientist..

    Physics is action:)


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I don't understand why the wet clothes on the clothes horse is such a problem.

    If I leave a bucket of water on the ground will that lead to dampness? I wouldn't have thought so and in the places I've stayed any damp/mould on the ceiling is in the bathroom from the steam off the shower which is quite different then wet clothes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    I believe you need heat and ventilation to keep moisture in the air from turning to damp?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I don't understand why the wet clothes on the clothes horse is such a problem....

    the water from them has to go somewhere

    weigh your clothes before you put them on the clothes horse

    weigh your clothes again when you take them off

    the difference is more or less the amount of water you have released into the air in the flat


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Yeah I understand that but if the clothes are cold or cool they'll not give off steam, or much steam, so they'll drip dry (at best).

    When you take clothes from a washing machine they don't stay warm very long so that's why I came up with the bucket of water analogy.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,176 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    by law he should have given you a ber cert before you moved in. This ber cert would indicate how likely the apartment is to get a build up of mould


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    Your landlord is taking the piss, you're only there a year! there is no way drying clothing on a clothes -horse could cause that much damage you describe, you're a scientist, explain it to him, blind him with science;-)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Yeah I understand that but if the clothes are cold or cool they'll not give off steam, or much steam, so they'll drip dry (at best).

    When you take clothes from a washing machine they don't stay warm very long so that's why I came up with the bucket of water analogy.

    Are you for real?
    Okay, over time the bucket of water would evaporate in a warm room.
    The clothes definitely should not be 'drip dry' after coming from a washing machine.
    It is the air travelling through the clothes that dries them.

    Take a jar, put a piece of damp/wet tissue in it, put that in a warm place with the lid on, You see the moisture on the side of the jar? that is what happens in the apartment.
    Do the same thing in another jar with the lid off, there will be very little air going through the tissue, but it will dry and there will not be moisture on the jar, hence ventilation.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    by law he should have given you a ber cert before you moved in. This ber cert would indicate how likely the apartment is to get a build up of mould

    What law are you referring to? Is there a reg which states that for rental properties?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    garhjw wrote: »
    What law are you referring to? Is there a reg which states that for rental properties?

    You have to be told what the ber is also a copy if you ask.

    I was able to break my lease few years ago due to this among a lot of other faults, safety issues.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Are you for real?
    Okay, over time the bucket of water would evaporate in a warm room.
    The clothes definitely should not be 'drip dry' after coming from a washing machine.
    It is the air travelling through the clothes that dries them.

    Take a jar, put a piece of damp/wet tissue in it, put that in a warm place with the lid on, You see the moisture on the side of the jar? that is what happens in the apartment.
    Do the same thing in another jar with the lid off, there will be very little air going through the tissue, but it will dry and there will not be moisture on the jar, hence ventilation.....

    The OP said it's not a warm place though, that it's actually cold, so that's what's confusing me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    The OP said it's not a warm place though, that it's actually cold, so that's what's confusing me.

    I am sure it is room temperature at least, if it was a 'cold' place, the clothes would not dry without air.

    Cold is relative, I am sure it's warm enough that he can live there, if it is, then it is warm enough to dry clothes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    jester77 wrote: »
    Have you ever used a condenser dryer and looked at the amount of water that comes out after a load of washing, even after a spin cycle. There would be easily 3-4 litres of water, this has to go somewhere when clothes are left on a clothes horse in a room with windows closed.

    Not all clothes can go in a dryer, actually a LOT of clothes can't. They'd be wrecked, especially in the dryer that come in combination with washing machines as they often don't have a low heat dry option. Having a dryer in the house doesn't neatly solve the clothes drying issue. I don't think I've been in a house in Ireland, rented or owned, that didn't have a clothes horse on the go. Unrealistic and unreasonable to expect them not to be used.

    In rainy or stormy weather, you can't leave windows open. I've never had an issue with clothes dryers and damp anywhere I've lived, and I've used them with closed window a hell of a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Not all clothes can go in a dryer, actually a LOT of clothes can't. They'd be wrecked, especially in the dryer that come in combination with washing machines as they often don't have a low heat dry option. Having a dryer in the house doesn't neatly solve the clothes drying issue. I don't think I've been in a house in Ireland, rented or owned, that didn't have a clothes horse on the go. Unrealistic and unreasonable to expect them not to be used.

    In rainy or stormy weather, you can't leave windows open. I've never had an issue with clothes dryers and damp anywhere I've lived, and I've used them with closed window a hell of a lot.


    Which is why it is important to keep the room(s) ventilated, as jester77 said....
    You cannot dry clothes in the room without someplace for the moisture to go, just like in a shower-room/bathroom, there is always a fan or window that can be opened...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,239 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I am sure it is room temperature at least, if it was a 'cold' place, the clothes would not dry without air.

    Cold is relative, I am sure it's warm enough that he can live there, if it is, then it is warm enough to dry clothes

    I know we're going way off topic but the OP isn't there when they dry the clothes so it may not be room temp as the heating won't be on.

    If you take it the OP said they do use a dryer, they do use a balcony, and it's only when they're not there that they dry indoors so the amount of times they're drying clothes indoors isn't a huge amount.

    I dunno it just doesn't add up to me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭berger89


    Is the apartment adjoining other buildings? TBH, I've a feeling it must be partially a structural problem.

    If other adjoining building are damp also, its the walls…they're obviously not insulated, and so the cavities are damp. Before we got our house pumped with insulation, it was like an igloo and the gable end of the house was mouldy. None of that now since we got it done.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have my own house and i rent out a room to a couple. They do a lot more washing than I do.
    There's no where to dry clothes in this weather apart from either putting out a clothes horse or using a tumble dryer.
    We dont want huge electric bills, so we have to use a clothes horse.

    I don't have damp.
    Just saying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    You release 20 to 30ml of water per hour when your breath too. Sweat even more.

    Ireland's air is also normally very humid. Poor insulation and inadequate heat and lack of ventilation cause dampness. There's very little you can do to improve it without fixing those.

    Air hits cold surface, water condenses. To prevent that you need to deal with the cold surfaces


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭DukeOfTheSharp


    That clothes horse thing and wet clothes causing dampness is a pile of crap. I've heard this from multiple awful landlords who try to play tenants, making them take the blame for poorly sealed windows, leaks in piping and a lack of proper insulation and/or poor wall design. It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.

    Basically, he can't move your stuff without your permission, he's making stuff up about damp and is generally being a pain, more than likely you'll get a 'cleaning bill' after you move out, where far too much money will be taken from your deposit. My advice, go to the PRTB and get him checked out, and at least then they'll have fair warning that he has been difficult, and that he's generally unreasonable and prone to BSing tenants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    That clothes horse thing and wet clothes causing dampness is a pile of crap. I've heard this from multiple awful landlords who try to play tenants, making them take the blame for poorly sealed windows, leaks in piping and a lack of proper insulation and/or poor wall design. It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.

    Basically, he can't move your stuff without your permission, he's making stuff up about damp and is generally being a pain, more than likely you'll get a 'cleaning bill' after you move out, where far too much money will be taken from your deposit. My advice, go to the PRTB and get him checked out, and at least then they'll have fair warning that he has been difficult, and that he's generally unreasonable and prone to BSing tenants.

    OP said LL left the clothes horse in the place to be used. Looks like the LL knows how to play the 'tennant caused damp damage' game very well.
    Next tenant that moves in will probably find the LL moves the clothes horse towards the end of the lease as its 'causing damp'.

    OP, maybe get LL to make a list of all the things he's unhappy with now so you can 'make the place ready' for the next tenant. Any mention of damp damage then either scrub off or paint over.
    At this stage though getting a LL to commit anything to paper/email will be difficult. At least if you have a record of having sent this then he can't bitck about you doing nothing to fix it.

    Id also forget trying to blind him with science/logic/structural engineering .... this is just basically telling him you are more intelligent ergo he must be in the wrong. Turn on the charm and remember its about short term money. PRTB will suck a year from your life on this planet.. although some folk enjoy the whole challenge thing. Read up other folks experiences of PRTB before even mentioning the word to him.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Einstein?


    From the lease:
    Re deposit:
    On the signing hereof to pay to the landlord the Sum of EUR 1400 in respect of and as security for the payment of rent reserved and compliance with the terms of the said Lettings which said sum subject to such payment and compliance shall be refunded on the expiration of the said.

    Does this mean I must receive it when the lease expires and not after?
    Lease expires 31st Jan.

    Re: landlord agrees with tenants as follows

    That the Tenant paying the rent and performing and observing the Agreements hereinbefore contained may peaceably hold the premises during the term without ANY disturbance by the Landlord or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust of him.

    Might be a stupid question, but can I call the guards on this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Guards is nuclear option.

    Does it say anywhere about LL having a right to inspect the property?
    Surely there must be some mention about viewings to!

    But failing that it does look like you have a bit of a bargaining position if he tells you now that your deposit is at risk etc... but then again its orobably going to end up in PRTB with you minus a deposit (and reference!).

    Cool the jets OP. What do you want out of this situation?
    Dispute or deposit?
    Turn on the charm, leave your rational scientific mind behind and adopt the emotional blackmail. Ask him what can you do to get the place ready...

    I think the unwillingness for any viewings to take place is the nub of the whole situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Einstein? wrote: »
    From the lease:
    Re deposit:
    On the signing hereof to pay to the landlord the Sum of EUR 1400 in respect of and as security for the payment of rent reserved and compliance with the terms of the said Lettings which said sum subject to such payment and compliance shall be refunded on the expiration of the said.

    Does this mean I must receive it when the lease expires and not after?
    Lease expires 31st Jan.

    Re: landlord agrees with tenants as follows

    That the Tenant paying the rent and performing and observing the Agreements hereinbefore contained may peaceably hold the premises during the term without ANY disturbance by the Landlord or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust of him.

    Might be a stupid question, but can I call the guards on this?

    Mod Note:

    You can't seek legal advice here - asking for advice on specific clauses in your lease would fall foul of that rule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Einstein?


    There's no mention of such in the lease. He previously said it's up to us whether we wanted to allow viewings or not. He is coming on Sunday to do two things apparently:

    1) Assess 'damage' done to walls due to generated damp due to mold which he has told me is our fault for using the clothes horse inside with 'extremely' wet clothes that he found one day when he was invited to view the apartment with his daughter during our absence in order for his daughter to recommend some design changes for the future.

    On this, I informed him of the issue of dampness and mold build up in November and I asked him whether it was a recurrent problem. I invited him to come take a look, precisely at those areas I have pictured in earlier post, at which time I had removed mold and they were clean.

    He wants to do 1) because he wants to paint the walls and wants to know how much paint he needs to do a DIY job. I have said to him, the last thing we want is coming to an already damp apartment with the fresh smell of paint so we are not allowing him to paint while we are still living in the apartment - even though he has suggested this multiple times.

    2) He wants to get the dimensions for a door underneath the sink which is swollen with moisture. He also blames our kettle which he says is leaking. The kettle isn't even directly above said door. The sink is, and all the mold/dampness is inside adjacent cabinets.

    He wants to do 2) again for the same reason, to do a DIY job before we move out.

    I can obviously see that he wants to continue the tenancy as soon as possible with a new tenant. However, I mentioned to him on the phone that we've paid 16,800 EUR - and immediately he interrupted me saying I don't care if it's 160,000 EUR. (right?)

    I will deal with him tomorrow and come to an agreement, but I foresee that it will be difficult because he keeps on blaming us for 1) and 2).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    Why wont you let him paint or replace the door whilst you are living there? It sounds like the relationship between you has broken down completely. This is going to end up in PRTB, and he has a strong case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    He wants to disrupt op as it will cost him hardly anything as he is on op's time as in he is paying rent LL wants to do all work while op there and have new tenant in probably same day op leaves.

    Its a bit late for LL to be doing repair work now as op is leaving so no benefit to them.

    I am amazed at what some can get away with.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ....It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.....

    Not all places have the same level of ventilation. So just because it doesn't cause a problem in one place doesn't mean it won't cause a problem in another. Also it depends sometimes on how people live. Some people never open windows. Some people have them open all the time.

    There may not be be once cause. It might be a bunch of stuff all adding up, including peoples habit, to tip the moisture level over a tipping point, or to prevent it tipping over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    He is not doing this to disrupt OP, he is doing this to maximise profit. It is entirely normal business practice, normally the tenant allows limited viewings after they have given notice, and the new tenant is lined up to move in straight away. There is nothing wrong with this. OP, by denying viewings has made this impossible, and now they are refusing to allow a patch paint job. He is going out of his way to be obstructive. Totally daft and counterproductive when the LL holds the aces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Einstein? wrote: »
    Nope. Poor ventilation in kitchen and in room where area of dampness is. Unless windows are opened in the freezing winter cold, these areas receive little to no ventilation. I've pointed this out to him.
    I always find this British isles attitude to this subject interesting. Houses and apartments in continental Europe have no vents and yes you would open the windows wide for 10 minutes twice a day even if it's -10 outside.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    In my experience its usual (or at least it used to be) in the British isles to open windows on a regular basis. People seem to have got out of the habit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    beauf wrote: »
    In my experience its usual (or at least it used to be) in the British isles to open windows on a regular basis. People seem to have got out of the habit.

    Yeah, it slightly grosses me out that there are people who don't open their windows. The window in our bedroom is opened every day. Even if it's just for 10 minutes. It's only hygiene.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Einstein? wrote: »
    The apartment doesn't hold any heat windows closed or open. It's poorly insulated, and did not have an energy rating on daft. If I were to give it one, it might be Z (A being really good).

    Well, here's the irony....If it was so badly insulated - and by inference - far from airtight, there would be less likelihood of mould issues - not more!


    A few things...


    1. Those saying that those issues couldn't be caused by occupant behaviour are the ones that are deluded! That incorporates, use of clothes horses indoors and failure to ventilate properly. Not opening windows 'because it's freezing' in winter is bs! Every dweller has to deal with that - you open windows for a period in the mornings at the very least. That's your responsibility.
    Furthermore, presumably you both use a shower? How much water vapour does that produce if it's not being ventilated?

    2. All you had to do was drop a bit of bleach into a bucket of water and go round and sponge the areas in question - job done.

    3. If he is in his 60's then yes, he does have more experience with regard to such issues - regardless that you are a 'scientist'. Have a bit of respect for your elders!

    4. He was pissed off with the state of the property and expressed it - you retaliated - by not facilitating viewings (you say you're both very busy, yada, yada - but it's pretty clear how things rolled and that this is very much secondary). There's nothing grown up about that. Maybe because he's got a bit of life experience behind him, he's told you this isn't clever - he's pointed it out to you and yet you are stubbornly going the lose/lose direction and not the mutually beneficial one.

    5. Someone suggested that you should infer that you'd cause major damage - It's revealing about that poster and a nasty minority of people. The attitude and approach of a total scumbag.

    6. You complain about the heating system - but you knew that going in. People have to be responsible for their own actions and decisions.

    bublypop wrote:
    have my own house and i rent out a room to a couple. They do a lot more washing than I do.
    There's no where to dry clothes in this weather apart from either putting out a clothes horse or using a tumble dryer.
    We dont want huge electric bills, so we have to use a clothes horse.

    I don't have damp.
    Just saying.
    Interesting..
    I too did the rent a room gig over a 6 year period. During that time, the presence of mould was completely linked to occupant behaviour. i.e. there were guys that NEVER opened a window - ever - and there were guys who did. With the fomer, there were major blooms of mould. When it first occurred, the occupant told me - and said it must be a structural issue, water ingress, etc. At the time, I thought he's probably right. Next guy that took that room - there was no issue whatsoever. The guy after that, not only was there an issue, he never told me - and let it develop into a major 'bloom'.

    That room has been largely unoccupied for the last couple of years - and no sign whatsoever of any such issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    Well, here's the irony....If it was so badly insulated - and by inference - far from airtight, there would be less likelihood of mould issues - not more!


    A few things...


    1. Those saying that those issues couldn't be caused by occupant behaviour are the ones that are deluded! That incorporates, use of clothes horses indoors and failure to ventilate properly. Not opening windows 'because it's freezing' in winter is bs! Every dweller has to deal with that - you open windows for a period in the mornings at the very least. That's your responsibility.
    Furthermore, presumably you both use a shower? How much water vapour does that produce if it's not being ventilated?

    2. All you had to do was drop a bit of bleach into a bucket of water and go round and sponge the areas in question - job done.

    3. If he is in his 60's then yes, he does have more experience with regard to such issues - regardless that you are a 'scientist'. Have a bit of respect for your elders!

    4. He was pissed off with the state of the property and expressed it - you retaliated - by not facilitating viewings (you say you're both very busy, yada, yada - but it's pretty clear how things rolled and that this is very much secondary). There's nothing grown up about that. Maybe because he's got a bit of life experience behind him, he's told you this isn't clever - he's pointed it out to you and yet you are stubbornly going the lose/lose direction and not the mutually beneficial one.

    5. Someone suggested that you should infer that you'd cause major damage - It's revealing about that poster and a nasty minority of people. The attitude and approach of a total scumbag.

    6. You complain about the heating system - but you knew that going in. People have to be responsible for their own actions and decisions.



    Interesting..
    I too did the rent a room gig over a 6 year period. During that time, the presence of mould was completely linked to occupant behaviour. i.e. there were guys that NEVER opened a window - ever - and there were guys who did. With the fomer, there were major blooms of mould. When it first occurred, the occupant told me - and said it must be a structural issue, water ingress, etc. At the time, I thought he's probably right. Next guy that took that room - there was no issue whatsoever. The guy after that, not only was there an issue, he never told me - and let it develop into a major 'bloom'.

    That room has been largely unoccupied for the last couple of years - and no sign whatsoever of any such issue.

    I own my house. Almost always dry clothes indoors. Only open windows if it is too hot in summer. Never to "air room". I have no mould and have never had mould. A house that gets mouldy by drying clothes or people living in it doing normal activities is a crap house.

    The average person exhales about 400mls of water vapour a day. So a family of 4 breaths out about 1.5kgs of water a day or about half a ton of water a year. Add to that another 1kg a day in sweat from the 4 (only some of which is captured in clothes) and you quickly see how little effect a clothes horse has on the water vapour content of a house


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    What's the point of quoting something, then completely ignoring what was said in it.

    There no point making a sweeping generalisations when you could be talking about airtight well insulated modern house vs some relic from the 1920's. You'll have completely different problems in both. Likewise you have have a house with a design or construction flaw, or simply a leak. There so many variables. But if a house has no problems with numerous different tenants, but does with one tenant, it may something they are doing. That is just logic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If there there is a problem with damp letting the LL find out about almost a year later is going to cause problems. Even if its not your fault.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    beauf wrote: »
    What's the point of quoting something, then completely ignoring what was said in it.

    There no point making a sweeping generalisations when you could be talking about airtight well insulated modern house vs some relic from the 1920's. You'll have completely different problems in both. Likewise you have have a house with a design or construction flaw, or simply a leak. There so many variables. But if a house has no problems with numerous different tenants, but does with one tenant, it may something they are doing. That is just logic.

    Was this post directed at me? If so what did I ignore? Makeorbrake was making the point that it is how people live that dictates chances of mould developing. My point is that this is untrue and that a house that becomes mouldy by people drying clothes indoors is a crap house. Yes the house may be modern or from the 1920s in which cases it is either an old crap house or a modern crap house.

    Makeorbrake also gave the example of renting out a room and suffering damp in that room. In other words he was actually living in the house and presumably ventilating the house ("opening windows in all rooms in the mornings at the very least") but with 2 tenants he had damp issues. How airtight was that bedroom? How cut off was this bedroom from the rest of the well ventilated house? What could these 2 people possible be doing in that room that caused damp in an otherwise well ventilated house? Unless that room had a sauna in it there is no possibility that 2 people could have caused damp unless there was an issue with the actual room itself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    OMD wrote: »
    A house that gets mouldy by drying clothes or people living in it doing normal activities is a crap house.

    The average person exhales about 400mls of water vapour a day. So a family of 4 breaths out about 1.5kgs of water a day or about half a ton of water a year. Add to that another 1kg a day in sweat from the 4 (only some of which is captured in clothes) and you quickly see how little effect a clothes horse has on the water vapour content of a house

    Thanks for making my point for me! So effectively, this adds to the issue? Agreed. So add to that, the water vapour from 2x showers per day and clothes being dryed indoors - with the backdrop of a house whereby the op has admitted he hasn't ventilated as he should have done - and we arrive at the answer I've already given. i.e. it's as a result of occupant behaviour.
    OMD wrote: »
    A house that gets mouldy by drying clothes or people living in it doing normal activities is a crap house.
    A 'crap house' - is that your technical explanation? The issue with mould has been more of an issue in very recent times due to standards IMPRoVING! The more airtight a house becomes, the more of an issue there will be with mould (in the absence of the occupier facilitating ventilation).
    OMD wrote:
    How cut off was this bedroom from the rest of the well ventilated house? What could these 2 people possible be doing in that room that caused damp in an otherwise well ventilated house? Unless that room had a sauna in it there is no possibility that 2 people could have caused damp unless there was an issue with the actual room itself.
    Christ on a bike! Are you capable of rational thought or just simply blinded by your own coloured view of things???

    I explained that in the case of the two occupants that NEVER (you see that word "NEVER"?) opened a window, there was an issue with mould. In the case of ALL other occupants (who did ensure the room - THE VERY SAME RooM - was ventilated), there was no such issue. Furthermore, there has been no such issue in that room for 4 years now.


    Do you still want to keep maintaining that BLACK is WHITE?

    OMD wrote:
    I own my house. Almost always dry clothes indoors. Only open windows if it is too hot in summer. Never to "air room". I have no mould and have never had mould. A house that gets mouldy by drying clothes or people living in it doing normal activities is a crap house.
    You know what that means? I'll tell you...

    It means that my Celtic Tiger Era gaff is far superior to yours (and given the timeframe of build, that's saying something!)! If it had the faintest degree of airtightness, then you would have mould as a result of those practices. Evidently, there's enough of a breeze blowing through pipes, doors, windows, plug sockets, attic trap doors, air vents, unsealed walls, etc to mean that you don't need to open a ruddy window...


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Einstein?


    Tomorrow's judgement day for us.

    Bottom line is, we've kept the apartment in immaculate condition and have paid our rent of EUR 1400 on time for the past 12 months. There is mold growing in some areas, and we have a conflict of opinion on its source. I have not been supplied with a Building Energy Rating which, according to this (http://www.daft.ie/building-energy-rating-ber), is a legal requirement.

    The way our LL has carried himself is like we've been graffiting on the walls, and we've had enough

    And to the fella who said I should just let him come in and paint while we are STILL LIVING THERE AND HAVE PAID 1400 TO DO SO, this isn't student accommodation. The water boiler broke previously and flooded the hallway - that's different, I readily informed him and he fixed it as he should. But painting over mold so he can cover up a mess to try and get a tenant in as early as possible all so he PROFITS - no thank you.

    I will get every cent of my deposit back or there will be war :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Einstein? wrote: »
    Bottom line is, we've kept the apartment in immaculate condition and have paid our rent of EUR 1400 on time for the past 12 months.
    You want a medal for paying your rent on time? To normal people, it's an expectation - not an extraordinary event!
    Clearly, the two of you are at loggerheads as regards whether you kept the apartment in shape.
    Einstein? wrote: »
    I have not been supplied with a Building Energy Rating which, according to this (http://www.daft.ie/building-energy-rating-ber), is a legal requirement.
    With this, any respect I had for you is completely lost. You're just scrambling for cover! WHY bring this up now? I will bet my house on it that you have NEVER brought this up before! You're just looking for an angle to screw him over with. If you really had an issue with this, you would have brought it up before.
    Einstein? wrote: »
    But painting over mold so he can cover up a mess to try and get a tenant in as early as possible all so he PROFITS - no thank you.
    It depends on whether it's painting over a fundamental issue or painting over an occupant behavioural issue caused by YoU!? Either way, how are you so fixed as regards to his future 'profits'??....unless of course you are of the bitter and twisted mindset...

    Einstein? wrote: »
    I will get every cent of my deposit back or there will be war :pac:
    Based on your version of events alone, my prediciton is that there will be war - and to the detriment of both of you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Einstein?


    ^

    Well of course I'm looking for cover. He's got his 12 months rent in the bank, he owes us a deposit. The way I see it, he has us by the balls and thinks he can walk all over us by blaming this dampness on us. The BER rating seems to me like an interesting solution if it comes to that (hopefully not). I never brought it up before, but neither has he. He claims the apartment is well insulated and it's our laundrette behavior + normal breathing + our lack of opening windows + our lack of turning on heat (which we can back up from energy bills) which has caused the mold. I am saying it's the apartment, it's ****e for ventilation and maintaining heat basically and there's been a water tank breach on the roof, and a water boiler flood inside in the space of a few months.

    The BER calculation includes energy use for building fabric, space heating, water heating, ventilation and lighting and is calculated on the basis of standard occupancy. If I were to get an engineer in and do it for me, I'd guarantee you from actually living here that the result for ventilation is poor.

    We'll be reasonable and try to come to an agreement, that's why we accepted his 'self-invitation'.

    I don't get what your problem is. Landlords are not entitled to walk all over tenants. I'm paying to live in the apartment, and I didn't sign up to have the apartment painted inside while we're still living there. I mention the 1400 because it's what we pay and I mentioned this to him to which he replied on the phone I don't care if it's 160,000 I've received in the last 12 months. Then why does he not just leave us the **** alone, give us back our full deposit, and do whatever he wants with the apartment after we move out.


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