I'm a tenant and my landlord is over his head

MicktheMan

Einstein? wrote: »

But this doesn't correlate with the damness in the bedroom which is like a mile away from the clothes hoarse or the area in the kitchen

The moisture (water vapour) being generated in the kitchen from the clothes horse (and other activities) is diffusing and seeking equilibrium concentration through the space available (i.e the whole apartment). This vapour is then condensing on any surface whose temperature is at or below the dew point of the air supporting the vapour. As bedrooms are generally cooler than the kitchen / living area, the dampness is showing up in the bedroom area. So distance from source to problem is immaterial in this context.

Einstein? wrote: »

I'm a scientist..

Physics is action:)

CatFromHue

I don't understand why the wet clothes on the clothes horse is such a problem.

If I leave a bucket of water on the ground will that lead to dampness? I wouldn't have thought so and in the places I've stayed any damp/mould on the ceiling is in the bathroom from the steam off the shower which is quite different then wet clothes.

ballyharpat

I believe you need heat and ventilation to keep moisture in the air from turning to damp?

gctest50

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't understand why the wet clothes on the clothes horse is such a problem....

the water from them has to go somewhere

weigh your clothes before you put them on the clothes horse

weigh your clothes again when you take them off

the difference is more or less the amount of water you have released into the air in the flat

CatFromHue

Yeah I understand that but if the clothes are cold or cool they'll not give off steam, or much steam, so they'll drip dry (at best).

When you take clothes from a washing machine they don't stay warm very long so that's why I came up with the bucket of water analogy.

Sleeper12

by law he should have given you a ber cert before you moved in. This ber cert would indicate how likely the apartment is to get a build up of mould

CollyFlower

Your landlord is taking the piss, you're only there a year! there is no way drying clothing on a clothes -horse could cause that much damage you describe, you're a scientist, explain it to him, blind him with science;-)

ballyharpat

CatFromHue wrote: »

Yeah I understand that but if the clothes are cold or cool they'll not give off steam, or much steam, so they'll drip dry (at best).

When you take clothes from a washing machine they don't stay warm very long so that's why I came up with the bucket of water analogy.

Are you for real?
Okay, over time the bucket of water would evaporate in a warm room.
The clothes definitely should not be 'drip dry' after coming from a washing machine.
It is the air travelling through the clothes that dries them.

Take a jar, put a piece of damp/wet tissue in it, put that in a warm place with the lid on, You see the moisture on the side of the jar? that is what happens in the apartment.
Do the same thing in another jar with the lid off, there will be very little air going through the tissue, but it will dry and there will not be moisture on the jar, hence ventilation.....

garhjw

Sleeper12 wrote: »

by law he should have given you a ber cert before you moved in. This ber cert would indicate how likely the apartment is to get a build up of mould

What law are you referring to? Is there a reg which states that for rental properties?

punisher5112

garhjw wrote: »

What law are you referring to? Is there a reg which states that for rental properties?

You have to be told what the ber is also a copy if you ask.

I was able to break my lease few years ago due to this among a lot of other faults, safety issues.

CatFromHue

ballyharpat wrote: »

Are you for real?
Okay, over time the bucket of water would evaporate in a warm room.
The clothes definitely should not be 'drip dry' after coming from a washing machine.
It is the air travelling through the clothes that dries them.

Take a jar, put a piece of damp/wet tissue in it, put that in a warm place with the lid on, You see the moisture on the side of the jar? that is what happens in the apartment.
Do the same thing in another jar with the lid off, there will be very little air going through the tissue, but it will dry and there will not be moisture on the jar, hence ventilation.....

The OP said it's not a warm place though, that it's actually cold, so that's what's confusing me.

ballyharpat

CatFromHue wrote: »

The OP said it's not a warm place though, that it's actually cold, so that's what's confusing me.

I am sure it is room temperature at least, if it was a 'cold' place, the clothes would not dry without air.

Cold is relative, I am sure it's warm enough that he can live there, if it is, then it is warm enough to dry clothes

Tarzana2

jester77 wrote: »

Have you ever used a condenser dryer and looked at the amount of water that comes out after a load of washing, even after a spin cycle. There would be easily 3-4 litres of water, this has to go somewhere when clothes are left on a clothes horse in a room with windows closed.

Not all clothes can go in a dryer, actually a LOT of clothes can't. They'd be wrecked, especially in the dryer that come in combination with washing machines as they often don't have a low heat dry option. Having a dryer in the house doesn't neatly solve the clothes drying issue. I don't think I've been in a house in Ireland, rented or owned, that didn't have a clothes horse on the go. Unrealistic and unreasonable to expect them not to be used.

In rainy or stormy weather, you can't leave windows open. I've never had an issue with clothes dryers and damp anywhere I've lived, and I've used them with closed window a hell of a lot.

ballyharpat

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Not all clothes can go in a dryer, actually a LOT of clothes can't. They'd be wrecked, especially in the dryer that come in combination with washing machines as they often don't have a low heat dry option. Having a dryer in the house doesn't neatly solve the clothes drying issue. I don't think I've been in a house in Ireland, rented or owned, that didn't have a clothes horse on the go. Unrealistic and unreasonable to expect them not to be used.

In rainy or stormy weather, you can't leave windows open. I've never had an issue with clothes dryers and damp anywhere I've lived, and I've used them with closed window a hell of a lot.

Which is why it is important to keep the room(s) ventilated, as jester77 said....
You cannot dry clothes in the room without someplace for the moisture to go, just like in a shower-room/bathroom, there is always a fan or window that can be opened...

CatFromHue

ballyharpat wrote: »

I am sure it is room temperature at least, if it was a 'cold' place, the clothes would not dry without air.

Cold is relative, I am sure it's warm enough that he can live there, if it is, then it is warm enough to dry clothes

I know we're going way off topic but the OP isn't there when they dry the clothes so it may not be room temp as the heating won't be on.

If you take it the OP said they do use a dryer, they do use a balcony, and it's only when they're not there that they dry indoors so the amount of times they're drying clothes indoors isn't a huge amount.

I dunno it just doesn't add up to me.

berger89

Is the apartment adjoining other buildings? TBH, I've a feeling it must be partially a structural problem.

If other adjoining building are damp also, its the walls…they're obviously not insulated, and so the cavities are damp. Before we got our house pumped with insulation, it was like an igloo and the gable end of the house was mouldy. None of that now since we got it done.

I have my own house and i rent out a room to a couple. They do a lot more washing than I do.
There's no where to dry clothes in this weather apart from either putting out a clothes horse or using a tumble dryer.
We dont want huge electric bills, so we have to use a clothes horse.

I don't have damp.
Just saying.

SpaceTime

You release 20 to 30ml of water per hour when your breath too. Sweat even more.

Ireland's air is also normally very humid. Poor insulation and inadequate heat and lack of ventilation cause dampness. There's very little you can do to improve it without fixing those.

Air hits cold surface, water condenses. To prevent that you need to deal with the cold surfaces

DukeOfTheSharp

That clothes horse thing and wet clothes causing dampness is a pile of crap. I've heard this from multiple awful landlords who try to play tenants, making them take the blame for poorly sealed windows, leaks in piping and a lack of proper insulation and/or poor wall design. It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.

Basically, he can't move your stuff without your permission, he's making stuff up about damp and is generally being a pain, more than likely you'll get a 'cleaning bill' after you move out, where far too much money will be taken from your deposit. My advice, go to the PRTB and get him checked out, and at least then they'll have fair warning that he has been difficult, and that he's generally unreasonable and prone to BSing tenants.

evolving_doors

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

That clothes horse thing and wet clothes causing dampness is a pile of crap. I've heard this from multiple awful landlords who try to play tenants, making them take the blame for poorly sealed windows, leaks in piping and a lack of proper insulation and/or poor wall design. It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.

Basically, he can't move your stuff without your permission, he's making stuff up about damp and is generally being a pain, more than likely you'll get a 'cleaning bill' after you move out, where far too much money will be taken from your deposit. My advice, go to the PRTB and get him checked out, and at least then they'll have fair warning that he has been difficult, and that he's generally unreasonable and prone to BSing tenants.

OP said LL left the clothes horse in the place to be used. Looks like the LL knows how to play the 'tennant caused damp damage' game very well.
Next tenant that moves in will probably find the LL moves the clothes horse towards the end of the lease as its 'causing damp'.

OP, maybe get LL to make a list of all the things he's unhappy with now so you can 'make the place ready' for the next tenant. Any mention of damp damage then either scrub off or paint over.
At this stage though getting a LL to commit anything to paper/email will be difficult. At least if you have a record of having sent this then he can't bitck about you doing nothing to fix it.

Id also forget trying to blind him with science/logic/structural engineering .... this is just basically telling him you are more intelligent ergo he must be in the wrong. Turn on the charm and remember its about short term money. PRTB will suck a year from your life on this planet.. although some folk enjoy the whole challenge thing. Read up other folks experiences of PRTB before even mentioning the word to him.

Einstein?

From the lease:
Re deposit:
On the signing hereof to pay to the landlord the Sum of EUR 1400 in respect of and as security for the payment of rent reserved and compliance with the terms of the said Lettings which said sum subject to such payment and compliance shall be refunded on the expiration of the said.

Does this mean I must receive it when the lease expires and not after?
Lease expires 31st Jan.

Re: landlord agrees with tenants as follows

That the Tenant paying the rent and performing and observing the Agreements hereinbefore contained may peaceably hold the premises during the term without ANY disturbance by the Landlord or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust of him.

Might be a stupid question, but can I call the guards on this?

evolving_doors

Guards is nuclear option.

Does it say anywhere about LL having a right to inspect the property?
Surely there must be some mention about viewings to!

But failing that it does look like you have a bit of a bargaining position if he tells you now that your deposit is at risk etc... but then again its orobably going to end up in PRTB with you minus a deposit (and reference!).

Cool the jets OP. What do you want out of this situation?
Dispute or deposit?
Turn on the charm, leave your rational scientific mind behind and adopt the emotional blackmail. Ask him what can you do to get the place ready...

I think the unwillingness for any viewings to take place is the nub of the whole situation.

The_Morrigan

Einstein? wrote: »

From the lease:
Re deposit:
On the signing hereof to pay to the landlord the Sum of EUR 1400 in respect of and as security for the payment of rent reserved and compliance with the terms of the said Lettings which said sum subject to such payment and compliance shall be refunded on the expiration of the said.

Does this mean I must receive it when the lease expires and not after?
Lease expires 31st Jan.

Re: landlord agrees with tenants as follows

That the Tenant paying the rent and performing and observing the Agreements hereinbefore contained may peaceably hold the premises during the term without ANY disturbance by the Landlord or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust of him.

Might be a stupid question, but can I call the guards on this?

Mod Note:

You can't seek legal advice here - asking for advice on specific clauses in your lease would fall foul of that rule.

Einstein?

There's no mention of such in the lease. He previously said it's up to us whether we wanted to allow viewings or not. He is coming on Sunday to do two things apparently:

1) Assess 'damage' done to walls due to generated damp due to mold which he has told me is our fault for using the clothes horse inside with 'extremely' wet clothes that he found one day when he was invited to view the apartment with his daughter during our absence in order for his daughter to recommend some design changes for the future.

On this, I informed him of the issue of dampness and mold build up in November and I asked him whether it was a recurrent problem. I invited him to come take a look, precisely at those areas I have pictured in earlier post, at which time I had removed mold and they were clean.

He wants to do 1) because he wants to paint the walls and wants to know how much paint he needs to do a DIY job. I have said to him, the last thing we want is coming to an already damp apartment with the fresh smell of paint so we are not allowing him to paint while we are still living in the apartment - even though he has suggested this multiple times.

2) He wants to get the dimensions for a door underneath the sink which is swollen with moisture. He also blames our kettle which he says is leaking. The kettle isn't even directly above said door. The sink is, and all the mold/dampness is inside adjacent cabinets.

He wants to do 2) again for the same reason, to do a DIY job before we move out.

I can obviously see that he wants to continue the tenancy as soon as possible with a new tenant. However, I mentioned to him on the phone that we've paid 16,800 EUR - and immediately he interrupted me saying I don't care if it's 160,000 EUR. (right?)

I will deal with him tomorrow and come to an agreement, but I foresee that it will be difficult because he keeps on blaming us for 1) and 2).

MouseTail

Why wont you let him paint or replace the door whilst you are living there? It sounds like the relationship between you has broken down completely. This is going to end up in PRTB, and he has a strong case.

punisher5112

He wants to disrupt op as it will cost him hardly anything as he is on op's time as in he is paying rent LL wants to do all work while op there and have new tenant in probably same day op leaves.

Its a bit late for LL to be doing repair work now as op is leaving so no benefit to them.

I am amazed at what some can get away with.

beauf

DukeOfTheSharp wrote: »

....It's a myth that drying clothes inside causes damp, I do it in my apartment and there's never any smell of damp or any water damage at all to be honest.....

Not all places have the same level of ventilation. So just because it doesn't cause a problem in one place doesn't mean it won't cause a problem in another. Also it depends sometimes on how people live. Some people never open windows. Some people have them open all the time.

There may not be be once cause. It might be a bunch of stuff all adding up, including peoples habit, to tip the moisture level over a tipping point, or to prevent it tipping over.

MouseTail

He is not doing this to disrupt OP, he is doing this to maximise profit. It is entirely normal business practice, normally the tenant allows limited viewings after they have given notice, and the new tenant is lined up to move in straight away. There is nothing wrong with this. OP, by denying viewings has made this impossible, and now they are refusing to allow a patch paint job. He is going out of his way to be obstructive. Totally daft and counterproductive when the LL holds the aces.

murphaph

Einstein? wrote: »

Nope. Poor ventilation in kitchen and in room where area of dampness is. Unless windows are opened in the freezing winter cold, these areas receive little to no ventilation. I've pointed this out to him.

I always find this British isles attitude to this subject interesting. Houses and apartments in continental Europe have no vents and yes you would open the windows wide for 10 minutes twice a day even if it's -10 outside.

beauf

In my experience its usual (or at least it used to be) in the British isles to open windows on a regular basis. People seem to have got out of the habit.