I'm a tenant and my landlord is over his head

Einstein?

Hi All,

My girlfriend and I moved into an apartment in D4 and signed a 1-year lease on the 1st of February 2014. Rent is EUR 1,400 per month which has been payed for the past 12 months (total EUR 16,800). Prior to our letting, the apartment was at EUR 1,100: we raised the price to secure it on the spot due to competition. In mid-December I told my landlord that we would be moving out at the end of the lease (end of January). Reason given was that the apartment is far too damp at winter time for us.

Currently, my landlord is being the biggest @sshole I have met and I was wondering if this was NORMAL behavior for a landlord, and whether he is entitled to do what he is doing. He is of age 60+ and we are in our 20s-30s.

One day, I invited him to come into the apartment in our absence with his daughter who is a designer because he wanted to make some possible changes. I get a phone call later saying that he could not believe the smell of dampness when he walked into the hallway which previously had a flooding incident (water boiler broke down, he replaced it and he told us to leave the carpet stripped until it dried - it never really dried in). He also said that he could not believe the amount of dampness around the window, condensation and so on. He also said that our clothes hoarse had extremely wet clothes and he, without our consent, moved it to an outside shed. It also had knickers and the lot, which my girlfriend thought it was both inappropriate and breaching her privacy.

Fast forward to now, I informed him that we do not want future tenants coming to view the apartment since we are both extremely busy in the month of January and that we do not have the time to be keeping the apartment in tip top shape for viewings. He did not object to this, but I can tell he is pissed off. He wants to meet us to discuss him coming in before our lease is up to PAINT over the damp spot on the said walls and fix a kitchen door which is under the sink which he claims is because of our 'leaky' kettle. This refers back to a previous incident in which he came in and found some water around the kettle and the kitchen is very bad quality (wood hybrid) and he said the kitchen had been damaged because of said leakage. Again he was invited to the apartment on my girlfriend's invitation after his request to discuss something else. He told us to get rid of the kettle and that damage was done to the said kitchen door. So he wants to repair this, ALSO before we move out.

What planet is he on? He accused us for the dampness because of our clothes hoarse with 'extremely' wet clothes. I told him that we use the both the dryer, use the clothes hoarse outside when it's sunny, and when we are not in the apartment the clothes hoarse is inside due to unpredictable weather conditions and ALL windows are locked for security concerns.

Now I'm afraid he will try to keep the deposit of 1,400 EUR which was paid in full. What I want, and what I told him is that he can come in after our lease is up and fix whatever he wants. He says there was no mold for 30 years in the apartment, yet it started growing as soon as we moved in. He self-invited himself to a meeting this Sunday to discuss further even though we've told him we're extremely busy and do not have time for any of this, saying that otherwise ''you can have it your way and we will fall out, and I will carry out a thorough inspection after you move out and we'll see the extent of damages'' ..the cheek of him.

What am I entitled to do in such situations?

Neither my girlfriend or I have had bad experiences with landlords before and they were never so nosy.

jester77

Well, he is right about the clothes horse. Where is all the water supposed to go if you have wet clothes drying inside with the windows all closed? I don't know what the rules are regarding withholding deposit but it would sound like he has a case here.

sh1tstirrer

It's a clothes horse. What type of heating do you have?

MouseTail

I would agree, you have at the least contributed to the damp issues. There is a dryer provided, so I get why he was angry at you using the clothes horse inside. I would do my best to repair the damage prior to moving out if I were you.

pooch90

Unless your washing machine has no spin cycle then there is no way that having clothes on a horse would damage anything. Very rare clothes actually drip coming out of the machine.

jester77

pooch90 wrote: »

Unless your washing machine has no spin cycle then there is no way that having clothes on a horse would damage anything. Very rare clothes actually drip coming out of the machine.

Have you ever used a condenser dryer and looked at the amount of water that comes out after a load of washing, even after a spin cycle. There would be easily 3-4 litres of water, this has to go somewhere when clothes are left on a clothes horse in a room with windows closed.

Clearlier

Get rid of any mould and return the apartment to the condition that it was in when you moved in. Slightly bemused at you not disposing of a leaking kettle the moment you saw a leak. Can be a hazard.

Basic rule is that you return the apartment to the state that it was in when you moved less reasonable wear and tear.

He shouldn't have moved the clothes horse and you shouldn't have left it where you did.

Labarbapostiza

Einstein? wrote: »

He is of age 60+ and we are in our 20s-30s.
.

This B***** has been in his game longer than you've been in yours.

There's dispute resolution with the tenancy board. I've no idea how well that goes. (in my experience they are landlord friendly). You may not get any money back or only a portion.

The best thing to do is dig your heals in, and don't come across as push overs. Whatever you do, do not hand over the keys until you get your money. If he thinks you're going to trash the place, and cause more than the deposits worth worth of damage, he'll likely poney up.

xalot

In my opinion it's only reasonable to allow viewings prior to you leaving. It just has to be one evening a week. You want to leave on good terms if you want to get a reference and your full deposit back.

If the damage caused is because of you not putting the clothes on spin i.e. leave them dripping wet on a clothes horse then you would be liable for the damage.

kidneyfan

Complain to the PRTB now. Check that your tenancy is registered.

Einstein?

We use both the dryer which is in an outside shed on the balcony, and the clothes hoarse. Otherwise the energy bill would be sky high.

When the clothes hoarse is used and we are in the apartment the windows are open to allow ventilation. If the weather is bad, the windows are closed and the heating is on. If we are not in the apartment, the windows are closed for security reasons which he doesn't understand and I can understand a bit of a buildup of condensation in the windows. But this doesn't correlate with the damness in the bedroom which is like a mile away from the clothes hoarse or the area in the kitchen.

The heating in the apartment uses old heaters that are mounted on the wall. If it had an energy rating it would be Z3. 60 mins heating will barely heat up the apartment, and after 10 mins of turning it off, the apartment would be cold yet again and you can see water vapour from our breath.

The clothes do not come out dripping wet, if they did I'd tell him to get a new washing machine. I have used clothes hoarse inside all of my previous tenancies and never had a problem with dampness, not once.

I'm a scientist.. I explained to him that the mold is a recurring problem and he says for the 30 years he's been renting there he's never seen it, I said previos tenants just haven't told you and cleaned it up themselves but it will always come back unless you permanently fix the problem.

kidneyfan

The dampness issues are the landlords problem. Talk to the PRTB and as you can probably afford it talk to a solicitor.

Einstein?

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

This B***** has been in his game longer than you've been in yours.

There's dispute resolution with the tenancy board. I've no idea how well that goes. (in my experience they are landlord friendly). You may not get any money back or only a portion.

The best thing to do is dig your heals in, and don't come across as push overs. Whatever you do, do not hand over the keys until you get your money. If he thinks you're going to trash the place, and cause more than the deposits worth worth of damage, he'll likely poney up.

I mentioned this age thing because he brought it up in his argument over the phone saying that he is much older than us and he has more experience about mold and dampness ...

Einstein?

Clearlier wrote: »

Get rid of any mould and return the apartment to the condition that it was in when you moved in. Slightly bemused at you not disposing of a leaking kettle the moment you saw a leak. Can be a hazard.

Basic rule is that you return the apartment to the state that it was in when you moved less reasonable wear and tear.

He shouldn't have moved the clothes horse and you shouldn't have left it where you did.

The kettle doesn't actually leak, I will prove this to him when he comes in next by filling it up and showing him how dry it is. It's a brown thomas expensive kettle that my GF got from a gift voucher and it means something to her.

The area that he says is swelling is a door to the compartment underneath the sink which we use a lot to clean dishes and so on. The whole kitchen is also relatively damp from the said water tank of the building complex leaking breaking on the roof. You can tell it is damp from simply putting in a bag of sugar or salt or washing powder into ANY of the compartments in the kitchen, then seeing how the dry salt/sugar/powder swells and becomes moist. I noticed this a week after I moved in and did my first shop...

punisher5112

Op take a copy of all dealings with LL, take photos of all problems and clean up dampness using lemon, water and cloth.

Nobody on here can tell you to use last month rent instead of deposit return as it is illegal on your part.

Threshold.ie will be of help to you and prtb are only used of you want to bring a dispute.

So look up threshold or even contact them as they are best for advice.

I went through similar op in 1st rental house.

andrea1983

I don't know why you brought his age into it tbh.

It does seem that using a clothes horse indoors when u have access to an outside shed is contributing to the problems.

As far as I'm aware, you're obliged to allow viewings of the property to prospective tenants within reason.

hfallada

kidneyfan wrote: »

The dampness issues are the landlords problem. Talk to the PRTB and as you can probably afford it talk to a solicitor.

You are completely jumping the gun. My parents are LLs. One thing I havent learnt is dont expect common sense from tenants at all. My parents called in to collect rent and seen the walls. We walked around the house and every wall from floor to ceiling was nearly black with mould. Every room had a vent to DCC standards. It turns out the tenants had no heating on and moved the dryer, which ripped out the vent to the outside. There was 4 months of hot moist air following into the house. It never occurred to the tenants to call us about the mould. But with HG mould spray it can be removed easily.

9 times out of ten. Mould problems are due to tenants eg taping up vents, turning off fans in bathrooms, drying clothes in the room. Has your apartment get DCC venting in each room?

The LL has done nothing wrong yet. The PRTB cant do anything, if the LL hasnt done anything wrong. OP if you piss off the LL you might not get a reference from him. It will be hard to find a place in Dublin with a reference. Try and look where he is coming from. He probably assumes you are lying about not drying clothes in the place(tenants in my experience lie,since they are human). If he deducts anything from your deposit, appeal it with the PRTB. But be sweetness and light for the moment. Being a nightmare tenant back isnt going to solve your issues

Einstein?

hfallada wrote: »

Has your apartment get DCC venting in each room?

Nope. Poor ventilation in kitchen and in room where area of dampness is. Unless windows are opened in the freezing winter cold, these areas receive little to no ventilation. I've pointed this out to him.

ChubbyHubby

Einstein? wrote: »

I'm a scientist.. I explained to him that the mold is a recurring problem and he says for the 30 years he's been renting there he's never seen it, I said previos tenants just haven't told you and cleaned it up themselves but it will always come back unless you permanently fix the problem.

So what if you are a scientist? You don't know everything. If I am logically about this I'd say that the water tank leak contributed to a lot of moisture in the apartment and you keeping wet clothes on a drying horse and keeping windows closed doesn't help the apartment to dry out. There are mould spores everywhere all the time, they just don't have the right conditions to fester until you got there so he might be right.

Arbiter of Good Taste

OP check your lease, there may be a clause prohibiting you from hanging clothes on a horse unless a window is open for ventilation - I have that clause in my lease with my tenants.

It doesn't matter if the clothes are dripping, they're still wet coming out of the washing machine. If you are using the clothes horse on an ongoing basis and not having the window open, it will cause an element of dampness.

MrMorooka

Einstein? wrote: »

Rent is EUR 1,400 per month which has been payed for the past 12 months (total EUR 16,800). Prior to our letting, the apartment was at EUR 1,100: we raised the price to secure it on the spot due to competition.

Why would you do this? People like you are helping to ruin the market and inflate rents, and as you have seen, the calibre of Dublin property(terrible build quality and design) and landlords is not worth paying a premium for.

Einstein?

MrMorooka wrote: »

Why would you do this? People like you are helping to ruin the market and inflate rents, and as you have seen, the calibre of Dublin property(terrible build quality and design) and landlords is not worth paying a premium for.

We did this because the location was great for both of us, and the apartment itself is great bar this dampness issue. It's a penthouse in an old building. He had received another offer, above EUR 1100 and, we had viewed a lot of places asking for this premium price. We were going to be homeless in a couple of days and there was intense competition everywhere for places at the time. So we offered extra to seal the deal. I kept a regular eye on daft and rent.ie to see if we had been ripped off, and we didn't think we had been when comparing to other places for the same price.

OldNotWIse

Einstein? wrote: »

I mentioned this age thing because he brought it up in his argument over the phone saying that he is much older than us and he has more experience about mold and dampness ...

lol what planet is this guy on? I'd check the property is registered. Also, have either of you had any conditions such as asthma exacerbated by the dampness? I also wouldn't be handing over the keys without getting deposit back. If he's simply going to paint over the damp instead of trying to fix the reason why it's there in the first place, then the next tenants will surely experience the problem. Looks like he is just trying to conceal it until he gets another lease signed.

Einstein?

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

OP check your lease, there may be a clause prohibiting you from hanging clothes on a "horse" unless a window is open for ventilation - I have that clause in my lease with my tenants.

It doesn't matter if the clothes are dripping, they're still wet coming out of the washing machine. If you are using the clothes horse on an ongoing basis and not having the window open, it will cause an element of dampness.

There is no such clause, and this clothes horse (sorry for spelling) was provided by the landlord - it was in the shed out in the balcony. It's not the best of sheds to be honest, it just houses the drier and on a wet day it didn't do much good for the clothes. We have it inside beside one of these old manual heaters and it eventually dries off there.

Labarbapostiza

Einstein? wrote: »

I mentioned this age thing because he brought it up in his argument over the phone saying that he is much older than us and he has more experience about mold and dampness ...

Yeah. And a lot of older people are full of crap, and they have a sense of entitlement to screw over young people. I've had plenty of experience of their kind. This is not your granddad your dealing with.

Dampness far more often than not is a structural issue in the composition of the building. And most Irish building work is typically of the "fussh ish, ish it'll do" variety. The damp is often being siphoned up from the ground. A good damp seal on the walls, usually will trap moisture behind the paint, and stop condensation from moisture in the room damping the wall - no mould, no mouldy smell. Landlords are often too lazy, cheap, or ignorant to do this. And the original builders generally don't bother.

We live in a very damp country.

MouseTail

The bottom line here is that the LL can deduct costs for removing and rectifying mould from your deposit, as he knows you dried clothes indoors. You can challenge this with PRTB, but it will take time and hassle, you may or may not win.
Easiest solution is to remove and rectify yourself and leave the place as you found it to get your deposit back.

Cathmandooo

You should do some damage control, you're leaving in a few weeks? Properly air the place out and heat up thoroughly, get some decent mould remover and scrub the place (I believe Woodies have a good one). Set aside one evening a week to allow the landlord to carry out viewings or to carry out works for the new tenants. Arrange a final inspection on move out day with your landlord and request your deposit in exchange for the keys. But your landlord isn't legally obliged to return your deposit there and then. Your only hope of getting it that day is to start playing ball. Don't cause yourself needless hassle, the PRTB process is long drawn out, avoid it if you can.

Drexel

Some people are really taking the pee here. You would want to be drying laundrette levels of washing for the type of damp the OP is describing.

I live in an apartment with no rads. Just storage heating. The clothes that cannot be tumble dried (tee-shirts, hoodies) have to dry inside on a clothes horse when its raining.

Anyone trying to blame drying clothes inside is deluded

Arbiter of Good Taste

jonny666 wrote: »

Some people are really taking the pee here. You would want to be drying laundrette levels of washing for the type of damp the OP is describing.

I live in an apartment with no rads. Just storage heating. The clothes that cannot be tumble dried (tee-shirts, hoodies) have to dry inside on a clothes horse when its raining.

Anyone trying to blame drying clothes inside is deluded

Calm down, no one is deluded.

Between myself and my OH we would do a wash every couple of days - we could do 4 washes on a Saturday if we are doing bedclothes and towels. So that's a lot of washing. If we left all these out in an unventilated room for a couple of days, then there would be damp issues.

percy212

Your LL is a chancer. Call PRTB and Threshold for advice. Get a solicitor if you can afford it. Drying a few clothes indoors does not cause mould. Do not be suckered by this guy. Get advice.

Drexel

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Calm down, no one is deluded.

Between myself and my OH we would do a wash every couple of days - we could do 4 washes on a Saturday if we are doing bedclothes and towels. So that's a lot of washing. If we left all these out in an unventilated room for a couple of days, then there would be damp issues.

maybe not deluded but he said the whole apartment smelled of damp!!

I still dont think there would be damp issues like the OP described. Not in a million years. PLus the sheets could be tumble dryed. The place would be nothing but wahsing having 4 loads of washing drying in the house