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Athiests - Who cares

12467…37

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  • #92
    Duggy747
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭Duggy747


    kneemos wrote: »
    If people are killing in the name of God it's undeniable that a God exists.

    .....in their heads.


  • #93
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    .....in their heads.

    And in reality if people are dying.


  • #94
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Grayson wrote: »
    Nobody believed the Earth was round at one point.No scientist would dismiss something purely because of lack of evidence,it would be the complete opposite of a scientific and inquiring mind.

    The earth isn't round...


  • #95
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    kneemos wrote: »
    Don't need experiments to investigate.
    I'd liken God to Dark matter...observable effects but no physical evidence.

    Observable effects are evidence, if we see observable effects then we can do experiments to determine the likely cause and come up with testable hypothesis.

    Dark matter isn't a 'thing' in science, it's a placeholder for the 'energy' in space that is not explained by the particles that are currently known to science. We are doing experiements in the LHC and other places in an attempt to discover new particles which we can then use to disprove or support the various hypothesis put forward by theoretical physicists and cosmologists

    If you can find observable effects of 'God' then you can experiment on him. So far, the only god we have is the god of the gaps and he is shrinking every day (although the infinite nature of man's ignorance means he may never fully disappear to those who want to see him.)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #96
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    kneemos wrote: »
    And in reality if people are dying.
    How does someone dying prove God exists? Might be following Shrap in a second...


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  • #97
    kjl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭kjl


    I think Atheists are wrong, I don't really believe in god but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say 100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.


  • #98
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    kneemos wrote: »
    If people are killing in the name of God it's undeniable that a God exists.

    Is that the best you can do?
    That merely demonstrates that people believe in a god, and are willing to kill.
    If I killed in the name of Allah..
    Wait, a better example, if I killed in the name of the elves voices only I hear, you would say I was insane.


  • #99
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    TheChizler wrote: »
    How does someone dying prove God exists? Might be following Shrap in a second...

    Because they have been killed in the name of God.If God didn't exist they wouldn't have been killed.


  • #100
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    anncoates wrote: »
    I'm an atheist but not a twat about it. If I was, I'd start a forum on boards for me and other atheists to hang out.
    Here, here!


  • #101
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Hoop66 wrote: »
    Surely you can formulate a hypothesis, and conduct experiments to find evidence that supports it?

    Conducting experiments is, by definition empiricism

    Forming a hypothesis is only scientific if it is based on observations supported by evidence.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #102
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    kjl wrote: »
    I think Atheists are wrong, I don't really believe in god but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say 100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.

    That's not what atheists think.


  • #103
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Is that the best you can do?
    That merely demonstrates that people believe in a god, and are willing to kill.
    If I killed in the name of Allah..
    Wait, a better example, if I killed in the name of the elves voices only I hear, you would say I was insane.

    I would say you killed for something you believed in.


  • #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just because religion is a human construct does not mean God does not exist!


  • #105
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    kneemos wrote: »
    I would say you killed for something you believed in.

    Exactly!

    Belief is not proof.


  • #106
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    kneemos wrote: »
    Half of this thread (and many others) is taken up with the observable effects of God,murder,terrorism,general mayhem etc.

    Hang on, does that mean by extension that there is some bearded entity called Nationalsocialism sitting on a cloud somewhere?


  • #107
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    Religiousness or non religiousness should be a personal thing.


  • #108
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    kneemos wrote: »
    I would say you killed for something you believed in.
    But going by your above logic, this would prove that elves were real?


  • #109
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Exactly!

    Belief is not proof.

    I'm talking about observable effects of God,the case is proven.
    You can talk about the terrorist killing or the little old lady doing a good deed for the love of God.The observable effects are everywhere.


  • #110
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    kjl wrote: »
    I think Atheists are wrong, I don't really believe in god but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say 100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.

    But you are arrogant enough to say that they are wrong when they say there isnt an afterlife.


  • #111
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    kneemos wrote: »
    I'm talking about observable effects of God,the case is proven.
    You can talk about the terrorist killing or the little old lady doing a good deed for the love of God.The observable effects are everywhere.


    Not one of the those actions can be shown to be caused by God.


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  • #112
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    TheChizler wrote: »
    But going by your above logic, this would prove that elves were real?

    For him obviously they were real and the person he killed .


  • #113
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    kjl wrote: »
    I think Atheists are wrong, I don't really believe in god but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say 100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.

    You know that to be Atheist means you don't believe in a god.

    It makes no mention of an afterlife. Pretty much any atheist I know wouldn't say they're 100% definite of nearly anything.
    As an atheist I couldn't say 100% that there is no god (Yahweh, Buddah, Thor, Zeus etc). I've just seen no evidence whatsoever for any of them and think it's really unlikely.

    I think it's really, really, really unlikely that there's an afterlife but I obviously can't say 100%. Whether that's a heaven, reincarnation, some kind of floating consciousness or whatever, I don't know.
    If any evidence at all was provided for any of them then I'd remove one or more of those reallys in the previous sentence.


  • #114
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    kjl wrote: »
    I think Atheists are wrong, I don't really believe in god but I wouldn't be arrogant enough to say 100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.

    Perhaps I can help a little here. Interestingly almost none of them are actually doing this, as you describe. So the arrogance you would balk at is actually not there, you will be relieved to find.

    The majority of atheists treat the god claim in the same way they treat all science claims: Which is that we NEVER make 100% certain claims in science (notwithstanding mathematics based on fixed axioms).

    What we do, essentially, in science is maintain a "probability continuum". In other words subscription to the truth value of a claim involves placing it somewhere on a continuum of how likely it is to be true or correct given the entirety of the relevant data set. And as that data set changes, so too does the position of the claim.

    For example having observed the sun rise every morning for 36 years I would place the claim "The sun will rise again tomorrow" as close to 100% as it is possible to get without it being 100%.

    The claim "the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant" is also high on this continuum because all the data and experiments have verified this claim. However it still is not 100%. Perhaps elsewhere in our universe the same experiment would give a different result. Who knows. The observable universe is much smaller than the entire universe.

    When a claim however is not substantiated in ANY way, it goes VERY low on the probability continuum. There is simply no argument, evidence, data or reasoning on offer to suggest there actually is a god. Much less so on this forum. So it is low on the continuum.

    It is however possible to go LOWER on the continuum than even this however. When a proposition is not supported by any evidence it is low.... but when the counter proposition IS supported by evidence then the original proposition goes still lower on the continuum.

    Which brings me DIRECTLY, after a lot of words (sorry about that), to your comment "100% for sure that there isn't some sort of afterlife.".

    We do not fully understand human subjectivity and consciousness for sure. But at this time 100% of the evidence and knowledge we DO have links human consciousness and awareness to the brain. 0% of the data we have shows a disconnect or possibility of a disconnect between the two, let alone a survival of the former without the latter.

    So the after life claim is VERY low on this continuum. Not only is there NO evidence or substantiation of any kind for the claim there is an after life..... there is actually positive evidence for the counter position showing destruction of human consciousness linked to destruction of the brain.

    As you say, there is no 100%s here. But few, if any, people are claiming such 100%s in the first place. So you are not so much beating at a dead horse, as an absent one I fear and I hope this post serves to alleviate such concerns.


  • #115
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,275 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Not one of the those actions can be shown to be caused by God.

    If they're done in Gods name then of course they are.


  • #116
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    kneemos wrote: »
    For him obviously they were real and the person he killed .
    Do you see the difference between real in someone's head and real in real life?


  • #117
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,076 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    kneemos wrote: »
    If people are killing in the name of God it's undeniable that a God exists.

    That's some leap you've made there. Someone acts on a religious belief ergo it proves the existence of their deity.


    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Thor. *takes sip*
    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Garfield the cat. *takes sip*
    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Wreck It Ralph. *takes sip*


    It is now undeniable that Thor, Garfield the cat and Wreck It Ralph exist by your own logic.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #118
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    kneemos wrote: »
    I'm talking about observable effects of God,the case is proven.
    You can talk about the terrorist killing or the little old lady doing a good deed for the love of God.The observable effects are everywhere.

    Yeah. Remember when people didn't know what lightning was and it was an observable effect of Thor.


  • #119
    Fuhrer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    kneemos wrote: »
    If they're done in Gods name then of course they are.

    That is so ****ing stupid it beggars belief...



    David Berkowitz shot and killed 6 people in the 70's and claimed he was ordered to do so by his neighbours dog that was possessed by the ancient demon Belial.


    According to your logic, Belial caused the deaths of those 6 people.


  • #120
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    SW wrote: »
    That's some leap you've made there. Someone acts on a religious belief ergo it proves the existence of their deity.


    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Thor. *takes sip*
    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Garfield the cat. *takes sip*
    I take a sip of this coffee in the name of Wreck It Ralph. *takes sip*


    It is now undeniable that Thor, Garfield the cat and Wreck It Ralph exist by your own logic.

    That doesn't count. It only means you believe in them. When it comes to god it is different.
    Why? Much like with how magnets work, ****ed if I know.


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  • #121
    Baggy Trousers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    harrymagina wrote: »
    Had a friend going around telling the whole local pub he is an athiest after a few jars. I know another Athiest who loves telling people that he is an athiest and going on about how he has been arguing about his wife about baptising the child and keeps bringing it up. I don't care if you are an athiest just please stay quiet about it! How are your athiest friends?

    I am not an atheist. I am simply atheist - I do not believe in any of the 200+ documented deities (fyi - you only believe in 1 of them). I did not join a club or organisation for atheist people.


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