Athiests - Who cares

Zubeneschamali

I can't see how to get it for the 2011 census, but in 2006, for the religion question we had:

Agnostic 1,515
Atheist 929

and the correct answer:

No religion 186,318

The annoying bar-room atheist the OP talks about is probably one of the .4% of atheists who feel the need to write Atheist on a census form.

kneemos

TheChizler wrote: »

Do you see the difference between real in someone's head and real in real life?

If something has an effect it is real.

Fuhrer

kneemos wrote: »

If something has an effect it is real.

If I wish really hard, it will be real!

Grayson

Akrasia wrote: »

When I go out for pints with friends and certain relatives, I go out for lively conversation. I hate bland meaningless chit-chat, I have to put up with enough of that at work

I don't always talk about religion, i also talk about politics, current affairs, philosophy, literature, music, sport... but the best conversations are where there is a friendly disagreement between people who strongly hold opposing views.

It's a joy to be involved in a battle of wits with someone who you respect and will engage with you in a good natured discussion.

Not everyone enjoys this, and thats why 'god' invented soap operas and the x factor

I had a great argument about what free will is the last time I was in the pub

timetogo

kneemos wrote: »

If something has an effect it is real.

If a kid thinks there's something under the bed and the effect is for him / her to go under the covers to hide from this imaginary creation then, by your logic, there's something under the bed?

I'm kind of hoping you're trolling, the alternative is even more worrying.

Grayson

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

The earth isn't round...

I never said it was. That quote is entirely made up.

constance tench

Fuhrer wrote: »

If I wish really hard, it will be real!

Is art a physical thing before it is painted?
Upon the physical death of the artist does the art disappear?

kneemos

timetogo wrote: »

If a kid thinks there's something under the bed and the effect is for him / her to go under the covers to hide from this imaginary creation then, by your logic, there's something under the bed?

I'm kind of hoping you're trolling.

As far as the kid is concerned there is indeed something under the bed.

Roger Hassenforder

kneemos wrote: »

If they're done in Gods name then of course they are.

I kill in the name of my god which happens to be a person with a dogs head.
He kills in the name of his god who happens to be a turtle with elephants on his back swimming through space.
She kills in the name of her god who happens to be a pink unicorn.

Has this established these gods are real, of equal merit, or are they three examples of people with beliefs, none with greater merit based solely on their actions.
If the latter, please provide an example of "God's" (or any god you choose) existence.
If the former, time to bail

smash

Fuhrer wrote: »

If I wish really hard, it will be real!

Of course. Sure I the euromillions every week last year!

timetogo

kneemos wrote: »

As far as the kid is concerned there is indeed something under the bed.

So the something is not real except in the kids head. Or a delusion. Grand.

Roger Hassenforder

Grayson wrote: »

I never said it was. That quote is entirely made up.

My bad, sorry
(but your post wasnt very clear)

Delirium

kneemos wrote: »

If something has an effect it is real.

I claim to have money in my piggy bank. Someone smashes it to get the money. It's empty. But because someone smashed the piggy bank, your logic is that the money is real.

Fuhrer

kneemos wrote: »

As far as the kid is concerned there is indeed something under the bed.

So, its real despite the fact that its demonstrably false?

kneemos

timetogo wrote: »

So the something is not real except in the kids head. Or a delusion. Grand.

Still has an effect in the real world,so therefore exists.

TheBeardedLady

Atheist here but don't talk about it. Tbh, I don't know exactly which of my friends believe or don't believe in what as it's never come up in conversation - it's their business. My boyfriend believes in a god but not religion but we don't discuss it - I jokingly ask him to pray to his god whenever something happens and that's it. I've no interest in discussing it with anyone.

timetogo

kneemos wrote: »

Still has an effect in the real world,so therefore exists.

OK. Time to stop replying to you.

TheChizler

kneemos wrote: »

If something has an effect it is real.

timetogo wrote: »

If a kid thinks there's something under the bed and the effect is for him / her to go under the covers to hide from this imaginary creation then, by your logic, there's something under the bed?

kneemos wrote: »

As far as the kid is concerned there is indeed something under the bed.

Armed with the knowledge that I can create something in real life by thinking that something something is real (and knowing that it will be real as a consequence validating my original belief) I'm off to bring untold destruction upon the world using only my imagination. See you guys!

Fuhrer

kneemos wrote: »

Still has an effect in the real world,so therefore exists.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exist

smash

kneemos wrote: »

Still has an effect in the real world,so therefore exists.

Some colour-blind people might think the sky is purple. But it's not, no matter how you argue it. Even from their perspective the sky can not be declared purple because they have impairment judgement. It's not purple, it just looks purple in their head...

Akrasia

kneemos wrote: »

If they're done in Gods name then of course they are.

If I tell you there is a diamond ring under a heavy clay flowerpot and this causes you to smash the flowerpot to get the ring. Does this mean the ring is there?

It must be seeing as your belief in the ring caused you to smash the flowerpot...

Zubeneschamali

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Has this established these gods are real, of equal merit, or are they three examples of people with beliefs, none with greater merit based solely on their actions.

I think something like this is the best argument for atheism:

Most people in the world are religious, and picking the top religions and round numbers, say 2 billion are Christians, 1.5 billion are Muslims, a billion are Hindus, and half a billion are Buddhists.

These religions are mutually exclusive: if any of them is true, all the others are wrong.

So even if the biggest, Christianity, is true, most religious people in the world believe in a religion that is factually wrong.

We know for a fact that most people's religion is false.

nozzferrahhtoo

Fuhrer wrote: »

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exist

There are some interesting mild forms-derivatives of autism where the patient has observable issues between discerning between the existence of an idea and the existence of the thing the idea represents. Perhaps you have encountered one of these people.

What is clearly causing the "real world effect" is not a god but the idea of a god. And that certainly exists in the real world.... has a real world effect... and is quite real. The idea there is a god, and peoples ideas of what this god wants of us, have very real world measurable effects.

But while the idea of god is very real, this is clearly not even remotely close to being support for the claim an actual god is real or exists. Which the user is contriving to appear like he is claiming while keeping it vague enough for a back pedal, so as to rile and bait a response out of those who might be amenable to such goading.

Shenshen

kneemos wrote: »

As far as the kid is concerned there is indeed something under the bed.

So would you expect scientist to go out an investigate the "something under the bed"? And if they refused, would you call them closed-minded?

I think what you're confusing here are two branches of science - natural science (which looks at things that exist in the sense that they are tangible or measureable), and psychology, which occupies itself with things that exist exculsively inside people's heads.

kneemos

Shenshen wrote: »

So would you expect scientist to go out an investigate the "something under the bed"? And if they refused, would you call them closed-minded?

I think what you're confusing here are two sciences - natural science (things that exist in the sense that they are tangible or measureable), and psychology, which occupies itself with things that exist exculsively inside people's heads.

No I'm talking about things that exist in peoples heads that become real.

Fuhrer

kneemos wrote: »

No I'm talking about things that exist in peoples heads that become real.

Like magic and spells?

drumswan

kneemos wrote: »

No I'm talking about things that exist in peoples heads that become real.

I think this lad might be a bit autistic, go easy on him.

timetogo

Thread has gone off the rails.

Akrasia

shruikan2553 wrote: »

That doesn't count. It only means you believe in them. When it comes to god it is different.
Why? Much like with how magnets work, ****ed if I know.

you call that logic? you have to give a reason why god is different. God is different because god is different is simply 'begging the question' and is a logical fallacy

kneemos

Fuhrer wrote: »

Like magic and spells?

If they work.