Why do you want/ not want children?

meeeeh · 01-01-2015 04:15PM

Rips wrote: »

As no one under thirty could possibly know their own mind :rolleyes:

Some people don't put a lot of thought into the fact that having children is a choice, not a prerequisite (where they probably should) and some people lack foresight. For example, starting a relationship, continuing a relationship without knowing or discussing where the other partner stands as far as children are concerned, early on.

There is a big difference between;

'I don't want children now' / can't imagine it, don't think that it interests me
and

'I don't want children ever' - anti-children, anti-natalist, deciding that children are something that you definitely don't want.

Its attitudes like yours, that prevent people from being able to make decisions about their own lives (such as choosing to be sterilised <30)

Childfree by choice is a growing demographic, there is also a thread in forum requests active, looking to establish a childfree section.

Oh spare me the moralizing. Yes there are people who know their mind in twenties and theirs won't change in thirties. But there are those who will change their mind (I am one of them). Basing conclusions on people like me in their te twenties is useless, I bet stats are way more accurate when you only include over thirties. But you are free to feel insulted, it is a very popular trend lately. One has to be offended about something.

Btw I have no problem with sterilization in twenties, in fact I think it should be encouraged in some cases.

IvyTheTerrible · 04-01-2015 05:29PM

goiko wrote: »

This Up until I met my current boyfriend 4+ years ago I had absolutely no interest in children, not only I did not want to have kids but I didn't even want them to get close to me, I found them scary and far from cute. If I ever bumped into a family with children and pets I would always pet the doggies and ignore the babies. Then I met my boyfriend and decided to work as an aupair so I could be close to him and the whole experience changed my mind completely! I can't wait to have kids with him, I can only imagine how amazing it will be despite the hard work. i have realised that the only reason I did not like kids is because I was always the youngest one in my family and so I didn't know how to interact with them neither was interested in learning until I had no other choice. My cousins have children now and I absolutely love them. I still struggle to find babies cute and, as someone said before, I can't see their cuteness until they turn at least 2 years old, but I think that's only because I don't have any experience with babies. My only worry is the whole pregnancy process as well as finding out that the baby isn't healthy, that would break my heart.

I am very surprised by the amount of people that seem not to want to have kids by the way!

I'm glad you ending up liking children, otherwise deciding to become an aupair while having no interest/not wanting to be anywhere near them was a bit weird, tbh.

P_Cash · 04-01-2015 05:38PM

In the children years myself and I'm lucky i have 1.

All i can say on the matter, based on myself and those close to my age around me, family friends ect.

Ull be lucky if u have the choice to have or not to half, it's more and more common to see couples seeking assistance.

People will more than likely say no to kids and never want then knowing that they are not ready or not in the right relationship to have them.

Ull never know your true answer to this question until either time is running out, or uve been told the tough news, but id imagine most people by early 30s know whether they want them or not.

P_Cash · 04-01-2015 05:42PM

I meant to add, it's sad to see most woman giving birth so late, when you take the full window of opportunity, people look at what time is left, .

I wish i had started the kid thing mid 20s, but i was only out of college, hadn't met my wife, .

I blame society and the way we are evolving

goiko · 04-01-2015 05:51PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I'm glad you ending up liking children, otherwise deciding to become an aupair while having no interest/not wanting to be anywhere near them was a bit weird, tbh.

I suppose you're right. But then again not everybody likes their job, and I was willing to take that job and do it as best as I could even if I didn't particularly like kids. Thankfully once I got to know the kids everything went smoothly

sashafierce · 04-01-2015 06:07PM

This post has been deleted.

P_Cash · 04-01-2015 06:11PM

sashafierce wrote: »

People may want to travel and see the world before having kids. Its much easier do that in your 20's than 40s when you have kids and responsibilities. 30's is plenty early to be having kids.

30s is plenty early?

Not coming accross as pushy here, but what age are you?.

Suppose someone started trying early 30s . . And run in to difficulty, all of a sudden time is so tight.

Id be more like thinking, early 30s, right its now or never, not ok 30s id want to start planning on when to start trying.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 04-01-2015 06:29PM

P_Cash wrote: »

30s is plenty early?

Not coming accross as pushy here, but what age are you?.

Suppose someone started trying early 30s . . And run in to difficulty, all of a sudden time is so tight.

Id be more like thinking, early 30s, right its now or never, not ok 30s id want to start planning on when to start trying.

You can have kids up to your mid-40s, if not later, so I'd agree that 30s is plenty of time. Yes, it gets difficult the later you leave it but not impossible and not by early 30s.

beks101 · 04-01-2015 07:10PM

P_Cash wrote: »

30s is plenty early?

Not coming accross as pushy here, but what age are you?.

Suppose someone started trying early 30s . . And run in to difficulty, all of a sudden time is so tight.

Id be more like thinking, early 30s, right its now or never, not ok 30s id want to start planning on when to start trying.

It depends on your perspective. The reality is that more women these days are likely to want to pursue a career, travel, see the world, date and explore different relationships, than was ever available to our own mothers or grandmothers / great-grandmothers. That's just the 21st century and the reality of many women’s lives these days.

To generalize, I tend to see a trend of settling down and having babies young being a lot more common in smaller towns and cities, where those same opportunities might not be available. The only one of my close friends to have a child young lives in a small town where that’s the norm, most of the women settled with guys right out of secondary school and did the family thing instead of the career or college thing. They’d be on baby three or so now in their late 20s and their lives would revolve around the Christenings and Communions and all of that stuff.

I live in London, where in a general sense the settling down doesn’t tend to happen until the 30s - it’s a career city and being single isn’t quite the taboo it would be elsewhere. I know loads of women well into their 30s who are single, or separated, divorced, on second marriages. One of my colleagues is pregnant with her first at 37 and that’s a lot more common here too. At 29, I’ll go and visit my mammy friend and meet all her mates and the first question will be “do you have any yourself? Are you married yourself?’ etc. I’ll go back to Toronto, where I lived for a few years, and the questions will be “what are you working at now? How’s the career going?”

Personally, my own parents had kids that bit later (mid 30s) after they had done all their travelling, adventuring and career-climbing. That afforded them a financial stability and wealth that gave us all a very privileged childhood with ample holidays, hobbies, etc - I had an extracurricular activity for every day of the week and saw so much of the world from an early age, and that in turn created the tools that I would need to be happy and successful. But more importantly, my parents always stressed the importance of being independent and fulfilled and a well-rounded, well-travelled and educated person. And I think if I do have kids, I’ll be bringing more into their lives because of that.

meeeeh · 04-01-2015 07:58PM

Where I come from decent childcare means that a lot of career women have kids in late twenties, early thirties. Most of my 20 female schoolmates had kids before me, they were all more or less in third level education, one doctor, four solicitors, some in science and three or four teaching in higher education which tends to be more prestigious. None bar maybe one is stay at home mother (married to a farmer) but most have less kids than here. Short working week would be also very unusual. And some have very distinguished careers.

I would say those things also heavily depend on quality of childcare, maternity leave,working hours. It seems to me that in Ireland (and possibly UK and USA) is sort of expected that once you have kids everything has to centre around them. Where I would come from you would adjust the number of kids so that you don't need to sacrifice to much of your professional life. Mum told me how were the girls in office she worked in shocked when one of the managers decided to have a third child (that was 30 or 40 years ago).

I think would say there would be quite big differences between countries, depending state services but in general the age goes up because people spend longer in education. But a lot of my friends would decide to have kids earlier so their career prospects later are not hampered by maternity leave and similar.

eviltwin · 04-01-2015 09:29PM

P_Cash wrote: »

30s is plenty early?

Not coming accross as pushy here, but what age are you?.

Suppose someone started trying early 30s . . And run in to difficulty, all of a sudden time is so tight.

Id be more like thinking, early 30s, right its now or never, not ok 30s id want to start planning on when to start trying.

It's not as simple as that though is it? How many people are settled down at that age, how many have a stable home or career? It might be biologically best to have a baby in your 20's but mentally, emotionally and practically it's a whole different ball game.

Dolbert · 04-01-2015 10:20PM

P_Cash wrote: »

I meant to add, it's sad to see most woman giving birth so late, when you take the full window of opportunity, people look at what time is left,

People always trot this line out to women, as though the responsibility solely falls on them. Anecdotal of course, but in the relationships I've observed it's not (usually) women dragging their heels when it comes to starting a family. Sometimes it's simply a matter of men not realising the timelines involved, nothing more. I've yet to meet a woman in her thirties who's not well aware of her fertility.

CathyMoran · 05-01-2015 07:29AM

It was me who delayed it but I got diagnosed with a nasty cancer just at the age that I wanted to have them (32) - we were incredibly lucky to have our 3.5 and 4.5 year old but I would have loved another one but I am 40 and the risks of damage to the baby go up even more at that age, I still take folic acic though.

leahyl · 08-01-2015 07:38PM

I just assumed that I would have kids at some point - never really thought about whether I actually want them or not but then I'm permanently single so no chance of it happening anyway! I do kind of freak out that time will pass and then it'll be too late to have a child and that makes me sad so perhaps that shows that I do want kids!

Addle · 20-05-2015 10:43AM

I find the no to marriage equality campaign really undermines childfree/childless couples.
It's pissing me off big time.
You're not a proper couple apparently if you don't have kids, and don't have them the 'natural' way.

I don't want children. I don't think that makes my relationship any less legitimate than a relationship that creates children.

Gatica · 20-05-2015 11:24AM

P_Cash wrote: »

I meant to add, it's sad to see most woman giving birth so late, when you take the full window of opportunity, people look at what time is left, .

I wish i had started the kid thing mid 20s, but i was only out of college, hadn't met my wife, .

I blame society and the way we are evolving

If men and women were given the same rights and support in parenthood, then maybe couples could choose to have families a bit younger (late 20's rather than early 30's IMO). Many women don't want to give up any prospects of a career because of taking a couple of years off work to have children, while their male counterparts use that time to carve out themselves a career niche.
If paternal leave was made compulsory and equal to maternal leave, it would get rid of the disadvantage young women face in the workplace.

It is a part of how society has evolved that influences child-having age in many couples. Although I do not think it's sad, I think it demonstrates the strides society has come since the early 1900 when women had fewer rights and less purpose in life (as deemed by society). Now, women can make a choice to postpone having children, or even not to have them at all, they can choose to have a career and a fulfilling life that doesn't centre around their biological "function".
Even while peak fertility might be much earlier, medically women can quite safely and successfully have children until early 30's, so IMO it's not as big a deal as you make it out.

Neyite · 20-05-2015 11:44AM

Addle wrote: »

I find the no to marriage equality campaign really undermines childfree/childless couples.
It's pissing me off big time.
You're not a proper couple apparently if you don't have kids, and don't have them the 'natural' way.

I don't want children. I don't think that makes my relationship any less legitimate than a relationship that creates children.

As someone who is an unmarried mother with fertility issues, and be in a situation that my next child may very well come from a petri dish, I find the 'no' posters are only reinforcing my resolve to vote yes by pissing me off every time I see one. I'd say I'm not the only one who feels that way so let them continue - it might piss off a few more undecided voters enough to vote yes.

The waiting room of a fertility clinic is a leveller in that we are all the same irrespective of our reproductive organs or genitalia - functional or not - we are just people who want a family to love and need medical assistance to do it.

meeeeh · 20-05-2015 12:08PM

Gatica wrote: »

If paternal leave was made compulsory and equal to maternal leave, it would get rid of the disadvantage young women face in the workplace.

This I strongly disagree with. Until you invent the way how men can breastfeed, I don't want compulsory long term paternal leave. I strongly feel men should have the right to take the full leave if partners decide so, but I don't want it to be mandatory. In my case, I am way more expendable in family business and taking my partner out of the workforce for three months would significantly impact our livelihood and livelihood of our employees. I want choice not some arbitrary nonsense.

As for those posters they are stupid and alsI very poorly produced. They just scream hello eighties. Anyway I always get a giggle when I see one at the entrance of an estate known for the large number of single mothers.

I wonder who their message is actually aimed at.

Neyite · 20-05-2015 12:19PM

meeeeh wrote: »

This I strongly disagree with. Until you invent the way how men can breastfeed, I don't want compulsory long term paternal leave. I strongly feel men should have the right to take the full leave if partners decide so, but I don't want it to be mandatory. In my case, I am way more expendable in family business and taking my partner out of the workforce for three months would significantly impact our livelihood and livelihood of our employees. I want choice not some arbitrary nonsense.

Men don't need to breastfeed though. They just need to be able to pour expressed milk into a bottle and reheat it to the right temperature. Some women express from birth and give only expressed breast milk. To me that's the hassle of both bottle and feeding but each to their own, but to balance maternity leave between us as a couple in a way that works for us I'd milk myself like a cow if I had to.

I think that equal allocation of leave is the way to go - fully transferable between the two parents though. Like you say, choice to do what suits an individual family.

So, take for instance my case. My partners company offers fully paid maternity leave, mine offered nothing so I only got the statutory state benefit. If he could go on maternity leave in my stead, financially we would have been laughing. Others might find that it helps where the father's career can absorb the impact of 6 months away where the mother's career or studies might suffer.

Shenshen · 20-05-2015 01:26PM

I never wanted to have children. When I was growing up and imagining my life, motherhood was never something I envisaged. Partially because I spent most of my free time growing up looking after my younger brothers, and, when on holidays, a herd of cousins. I always associated children with chores.

And as another poster has said before, I don't find them cute either. I will of course tell every colleague bringing their babies to work to show them around how adorable their little one is, but I tend to be the first one back at my desk and working - just much more interesting.

That said, I've shifted from "probably not" to "maybe", as my husband would like to have a child. Not desperately, but it would make him happy. So the deal is that we will try, and if it happens it does, if it doesn't that's grand, too.
If it does happen, though, I'll be taking minimal time off work. He'll probably start working part-time or maybe give up work and look after the child.

The Masculinist · 23-05-2015 02:08PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I never wanted to have children. When I was growing up and imagining my life, motherhood was never something I envisaged. Partially because I spent most of my free time growing up looking after my younger brothers, and, when on holidays, a herd of cousins. I always associated children with chores.

And as another poster has said before, I don't find them cute either. I will of course tell every colleague bringing their babies to work to show them around how adorable their little one is, but I tend to be the first one back at my desk and working - just much more interesting.

That said, I've shifted from "probably not" to "maybe", as my husband would like to have a child. Not desperately, but it would make him happy. So the deal is that we will try, and if it happens it does, if it doesn't that's grand, too.
If it does happen, though, I'll be taking minimal time off work. He'll probably start working part-time or maybe give up work and look after the child.

Very good of you to consider your husband's feelings and wants in this. Ultimately you have to carry the child for 9 months so fair play. The one thing I would say is I have seen women change their view after they actually have the child. They tend to be overjoyed etc. So the view on minimal time off work etc. could change.

Gatica · 23-05-2015 02:17PM

meeeeh wrote: »

This I strongly disagree with. Until you invent the way how men can breastfeed, I don't want compulsory long term paternal leave. I strongly feel men should have the right to take the full leave if partners decide so, but I don't want it to be mandatory. In my case, I am way more expendable in family business and taking my partner out of the workforce for three months would significantly impact our livelihood and livelihood of our employees. I want choice not some arbitrary nonsense.

I'm not saying paternal leave has to be during breast-feeding/bottle-feeding age. It could be up to a year or more. At least a man could spend time with his child and bond. Also, the reason it would have to be compulsory is that society as a whole may at present see early age parenting as being almost solely a mother's responsibility and therefore a man taking leave could be seen by some as caving in or being a sissy, or some other such negative thing that could make men who would love to otherwise take paternal leave, feel like it's not seen as acceptable among some of their peers for them to take time off to be with their child. If it just were transferable, then employers of the father may very well be like, "sure why doesn't your wife just take the leave?"...

The Masculinist · 23-05-2015 02:18PM

Addle wrote: »

I find the no to marriage equality campaign really undermines childfree/childless couples.
It's pissing me off big time.
You're not a proper couple apparently if you don't have kids, and don't have them the 'natural' way.

I don't want children. I don't think that makes my relationship any less legitimate than a relationship that creates children.

I find the idea that you are not a proper couple unless you are married is more annoying.

Gatica · 23-05-2015 02:20PM

sure you're not even a real woman unless you have kids... :rolleyes: /end sarcasm.

The Masculinist · 23-05-2015 02:22PM

Gatica wrote: »

sure you're not even a real productive woman unless you have kids... :rolleyes: /end sarcasm.

FYP :P

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 23-05-2015 07:34PM

I'm in the "I like kids, but I couldn't eat a whole one" camp. I know I wouldn't be good at it, I don't want the responsibility, and I've never felt the drive.

I love spending time with kids, and they do like me. Last time I was minding my friend's kid (6) we made a deal that I wouldn't tell his mam he was swearing if he didn't tell her I let him eat sugar. Not as in "foods containing a lot of sugar", a literal handful of sugar. I would not be a good mother.

Rips · 23-05-2015 07:35PM

Shenshen wrote: »

That said, I've shifted from "probably not" to "maybe", as my husband would like to have a child. Not desperately, but it would make him happy. So the deal is that we will try, and if it happens it does, if it doesn't that's grand, too.
If it does happen, though, I'll be taking minimal time off work. He'll probably start working part-time or maybe give up work and look after the child.

The Masculinist wrote: »

Very good of you to consider your husband's feelings and wants in this. Ultimately you have to carry the child for 9 months so fair play. The one thing I would say is I have seen women change their view after they actually have the child. They tend to be overjoyed etc. So the view on minimal time off work etc. could change.

No one should have children for someone else.

TM, what you have stated is the exact same myth that is trotted out to childfree by choice women... '' its different when its your own''

There is probably as much chance that the OP could feel the complete opposite and come to regret and resent her decision. And that case has the much worse outcome unfortunately, as now there is a child involved.

Shenshen, I would just advise you to consider your choices, there are lots of perspectives available from people who are/have been in your situation. For and against. Leaving it up to nature is probably the worst thing you could do.

meeeeh · 23-05-2015 10:29PM

Gatica wrote: »

I'm not saying paternal leave has to be during breast-feeding/bottle-feeding age. It could be up to a year or more. At least a man could spend time with his child and bond. Also, the reason it would have to be compulsory is that society as a whole may at present see early age parenting as being almost solely a mother's responsibility and therefore a man taking leave could be seen by some as caving in or being a sissy, or some other such negative thing that could make men who would love to otherwise take paternal leave, feel like it's not seen as acceptable among some of their peers for them to take time off to be with their child. If it just were transferable, then employers of the father may very well be like, "sure why doesn't your wife just take the leave?"...

You can't solve societal with arbitrary decisions. In my case your solution would mean less time with the child at home. I would use up my allowance and my partner none. What do you suggest for single parents? Less leave because there is no mummy/daddy?

Irish proved today they can be very accepting so why so little faith in this case. Btw woman's employer could just as easily ask her why her partner is not taking parental leave. There is also this idea that only the quantity of time means kids can bond to parent. I actually think mine bonded quite well with their father despite les time he spends with tgem. I really don't care who takes the leave and how much but I think it is up to the couple not the state to decide.

meeeeh · 23-05-2015 10:32PM

Rips wrote: »

No one should have children for someone else.

TM, what you have stated is the exact same myth that is trotted out to childfree by choice women... '' its different when its your own''

There is probably as much chance that the OP could feel the complete opposite and come to regret and resent her decision. And that case has the much worse outcome unfortunately, as now there is a child involved.

Shenshen, I would just advise you to consider your choices, there are lots of perspectives available from people who are/have been in your situation. For and against. Leaving it up to nature is probably the worst thing you could do.

I actually started a reply to that the other day and pesky work interfered. ðŸ˜€ Anyway you said it way better than I could.

silverfeather · 24-05-2015 06:51AM

This thread has evolved in a rather unexpected way.

I am not one hundred percent certain. Sometimes i lean towards yes sometimes no. A little more so yes in recent years. I think I would like to experience it. Maybe even once. But I don't know for sure either way yet. You never know what way life will go.

I think you have to be in the right situation and be totally ready. I would want it to be the right situation etc.

I agree having kids for someone else is a terrible idea. You need to be honest.

Why do you want/ not want children?

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