No longer attracted to my girlfriend

looking_around wrote: »

yes excess calories..but say you eat 4000 a day...you will eventually stop at a certain size, unless you increase that caloric intake you won't gain more weight.

nor will you lose it. ie, it will stabilise........

I completely agree. However, the reason isn't because of a pre-determined "topping out" point. It's because their body got to a size that meant moving, blood supply actually now REQUIRES those 4,000 calories which is a sorry state to be in. This is fundamental energy usage governed by the laws of physics - a 200lb person walking for five minutes will use 1/2 the energy of a 400lb person walking for five minutes (assuming the same or similar muscle mass).

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

This is the case for people looking to gain weight/muscle as well such as athletes and bodybuilders. Say, for example, someone is 6'2 and 180lbs and they need to eat 4,000 calories to gain weight and try to reach 200lbs. They will gain the weight but as they get bigger, and closer to 200lbs, they have more muscle tissue requiring nutrients and so their caloric needs also increase. So the original 4,000 calories increases to e.g. 4,200.

Agreed, and again I'm sure you'll agree that this is because of how the body (and everything else in the universe) transforms stored energy (food) into kinetic and other forms of stored energy (glucose, fat etc...).

The main social difference here (and it's an important one) is that bodybuilders are normally (in my experience) very strong willed, determined people. So they'll force themselves to eat and lift when they don't want to to meat their macro goals and keep making gains.

Whereas fat people, generally are quite weak-willed when it comes to fitness/diet and are likely to start feeling peckish when their body reaches a point of using up all their food intake calories and so just reach for the cook jar again.

Bodybuilders and fat people are also a poor comparison in terms of calories burned and BMR because fat people will have 'dead weight' fat which in itself doesn't burn fat, where as body builders will have mostly muscle which DOES burn fat and builds upon itself as it's used.

Tarzana2 wrote: »

That is exactly want I meant. As in I couldn't possibly eat enough to keep gaining.

We clearly have different definitions of topping out. Why get so het up?

You really have a bee in your bonnet about this, don't you? It's a bit odd, TBH, to be *that* fixated on something. Yeesh. I would not usually say something like what I'm about to say, but I would pity whatever girl ends up with you. Heaven help her if she gains even a bit of weight. But then you'd dump her, and she's be free of you, and that would probably be a good outcome for all concerned.

One other thing - there are many ways a lack of willpower manifests itself. Smoking, drinking to excess and being overweight are just the most visible kinds. But shur I suppose they give people a focus for their free-floating need to feel superior. People love to find a way to feel superior.

So we're agreed that fatness is caused by consuming more calories than you burn. Bit of a scenic route but we got there.

Yeah, if my wife or girlfriend got fat I would no longer find them attractive and, failing an intervention like the OP's, I'd break it off. This is often a hard to accept fact but the majority of men don't like fat women just the same as they don't like anorexic women. Instead, they prefer healthy women. Despite media brain washing about "Real Women", "Curves" or whatever, fat above a certain level is unsightly and an indicator of laziness.

Will power is a personality trait - not a symptom which "manifests". If I was a betting man and had to choose which one would be successful at giving up smoking, a bodybuilder or an obese person, I'd chose the body builder.

It's getting harder and harder not to feel slightly "superior" if that's the term you want to use when, walking down O' Connell Street you're more likely to see an obese person lumbering along than a fit, healthy person. So yes, in terms of fitness, I'm probably superior to the national average although I'm no athlete or bodybuilder myself.

Has the OP dumped her?

Dean0088 wrote: »

So we're agreed that fatness is caused by consuming more calories than you burn. Bit of a scenic route but we got there.

Yeah, if my wife or girlfriend got fat I would no longer find them attractive and, failing an intervention like the OP's, I'd break it off. This is often a hard to accept fact but the majority of men don't like fat women just the same as they don't like anorexic women. Instead, they prefer healthy women. Despite media brain washing about "Real Women", "Curves" or whatever, fat above a certain level is unsightly and an indicator of laziness.

Will power is a personality trait - not a symptom which "manifests". If I was a betting man and had to choose which one would be successful at giving up smoking, a bodybuilder or an obese person, I'd chose the body builder.

It's getting harder and harder not to feel slightly "superior" if that's the term you want to use when, walking down O' Connell Street you're more likely to see an obese person lumbering along than a fit, healthy person. So yes, in terms of fitness, I'm probably superior to the national average although I'm no athlete or bodybuilder myself.

You don't like obese people. We get it. I'm obese, I'm not bothered about it, but I'm glad its bothering you. Can you feel that rage build in the back of your head now? Someone out there is eating whatever they like! Frustrating, isn't it? And I probably have lower blood pressure than you as well.

Tarzana2 wrote: »

No, I said if you're overeating the same amount every day, eventually that even will stabilise. It'll stabilise at an overweight weight, with lots of fat, but stabilise you will. An equilibrium is met, that it leaves you overweight doesn't change that. And that was how it was with me.

The thing that gets me is that I have known people in the "it just takes willpower, eat less, move more" camp who themselves for whatever reason become overweight and it shocks them that it happens. I won't bother naming the reasons why this happened to them because honestly, what's the point? But these would have been people who would never have thought it would happen to them. I think what many here find so unpalatable is that there seems to be very little allowance for something happening that might leave you overweight for a period in your life. Becoming overweight for a while doesn't mean you'll stay that way, but many seem quite impatient about someone getting back to where they were.

I think we're in agreement with the calories and weight gain thing.

Your use of the phrase "topping out" - I obviously took your meaning of this up wrong. I know now you meant reaching a size whereby you'll burn all your calories simply by being that size.

However, that phrase "topping out" is frequently used to describe something which actually is a myth (that people just have this internal "setting" which, regardless of exercise or diet, they'll just "be". It comes from the HAES (Health at Every Size) movement in the US which are very active online and have huge influence over female health and weight issues online. Look at any blog post, article or video online in these genres and you'll find HAES activists.

They basically target the insecurities of overweight females to recruit them into this ridiculous 'crabs in a bucket'.

Here is their mantra:

Let’s face facts. We’ve lost the war on obesity. Fighting fat hasn’t made the fat go away. And being thinner, even if we knew how to successfully accomplish it, will not necessarily make us healthier or happier.

On your last point: that's literally all it takes. Yes, people have personal lives and health issues. If someone gets a big injury or an operation that prevents exercise, or becomes depressed, weight gain is to be expected.

However, this cannot stand as a shield. Ireland is at 33% overweight/obese. It's in children at a growing rate. The vast, overwhelming majority of the time, when someone gains weight, it's because they ate too much, moved too little and lack will power to do the opposite.

The One Doctor wrote: »

You don't like obese people. We get it. I'm obese, I'm not bothered about it, but I'm glad its bothering you. Can you feel that rage build in the back of your head now? Someone out there is eating whatever they like! Frustrating, isn't it? And I probably have lower blood pressure than you as well.

I don't mind obese people. I have friends who are obese, and indeed one who is very much so on the upper end of that spectrum. I don't hate them and their weight doesn't concern me outside of occasionally thinking about their health.

I eat around 2500 - 3500 calories per day depending on what I'm doing. I eat whatever I want but obviously I limit "treats" to once every few days, or if I've gained a few pounds, none at all for a week or two. Every person in Ireland 'eats whatever they want' - some people want to be healthy, other people want instant gratification in junk food.

If you're obese then, in all likelihood, your blood pressure isn't lower than mine. Of course that's just probability. You also definitely have fat building up around your vital organs which should be a cause for concern. It leads to a myriad of health problems of which over 10,000 people in Ireland die each year, and a multiple of that number live reduced lifestyles. If you're truly happy with that then bully for you.

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

Has the OP dumped her?

No, he talked to her and she said she was already aware and had decided to join a gym in the new year. OP is joining too and supporting her.

Girl will have lost the weight 'n' all and this thread will still be here, half the posters arguing 'fat people are yuck, fat people need to do this thing I'm saying. So simple, gawwwd!' and the other half protesting 'don't call people fat, that is the worst thing you could ever call someone, I'm telling the world on you!"

Wibbs wrote: »

That's the bit I don't get at all tOD. So you don't find fat/skinny/whatever attractive in men/women, OK that's fine, but why freak out about other people and their choices?

Quote me where I said that I despise fat people or obsess over the choices of others.

The only think that irks me is the proliferation over the past few years of saying obesity if "okay".

If an individual is happy with the way they are then fine. However, it's pretty obnoxious to dispute doctors who are banging a steel drum all the time warning Ireland about rising obesity. As I've said, people become obese for numerous reasons. However, the core (and it's the vast majority) is because they eat too much processed junk food, sweet sugary snacks and drink fizzy drinks/beer. Related diseases like type 2 diabetes are rocketing in children and OAPs.

This has been my core argument throughout this thread, not attacking fat people as individuals.

I mean it doesn't affect anyone but them, if it affects them at all. You can't exactly get "secondhand fat" after all.

Hmm. I disagree. Forgetting about airlines for a minute, because that's another issue in and of itself:

What about children of obese parents and parents who know fcuk all about basic nutrition? Its gotten to a point where schools have had to implement carpet bans on crisps, chocolate etc... because SOME parents were loading up their kids lunch boxes with the stuff as opposed to giving them as an odd treat.

Or even worse, just handing their kid a fiver each morning and letting him/her plan their own meals out of a sweet shop :rolleyes: .

To be, it's child neglect (I wouldn't say abuse, as some would call it).

1) 14% is pretty low. Don't get me wrong and contrary to some nonsense out there, it's not anorexic, nor would a woman's periods stop(unless there was some other underlying issue), but it would be on the low enough side. 2) You may dig thin women. I do myself. However, not all men do. Indeed quite the number like 'bigger" women. I know and have known quite the few. And these weren't no hopers, these were men with choice and they consistently went for women who were at least size 14/16 and more and size 8 women were damn near invisible to them. From the other side I've known women who preferred a bit of bulk on a man. Not obese(but would be within sniffing distance of same medically), more feed of pints and spuds old stylee pre roids rugby player type build. I'm thin enough myself(especially for these days) and I know I've been invisible to women in the past because of it.

14% isn't THAT low. To start inhibiting periods and so on you'd need to be at athlete level which is 10% for women. However, 14% is by no means a standard for looking well.

I posted this chart earlier.

As you can see, women can look and be fine right up to 30%. After that, 35% and you're what I'd call chubby/fat depending on muscle. I suspect this is what men who like "larger women" enjoy - a feminine physique with extra padding. Not sure what the health implications would be at that stage (likely minimal) but I can see how someone would be into it.

Beyond that and you've reached obesity and beyond. If somebody is happy being at 40 or 50% bodyfat (or more) then fine. And if their OH is 'into it' then fine. However, I just can't comprehend how sagging rolls of fat is attractive.

I would reckon that it's a bit of a cultural thing too. IMHO and IME Irish men as a generic group/culture are much more accepting and into bigger women, compared to say Italian/Spanish/French men(among others). The fact that Spain has the highest rate of anorexia in Europe reflects that(and Italy isn't far behind). Interestingly while 20-30 year old Spanish women are thinner than the average 20-30 year old Irish women, by 40 they're the same and the Spaniards can even be slightly heavier.

Fair enough. If Irish men are far more accepting of larger women it might be cultural, or it might be basic 'free market' principals. I'd go with the latter. Irish men are no oil painting themselves, and it's quite rare to see couples in their 20s with significantly different body sizes. There's a finite number of slim females so, numbers wise, males make do.

Survey the average college aged male and ask which one he would choose.

You see big body size difference as couples get into 40s, but I think that's due to the issue the OP faced. :P

Even so, let's face it, we're not turning into America. TBH I dunno where people are seeing all these morbidly obese folks wandering about. YOu kinda have to look for them, especially in the younger folks. On the gender front I'd personally reckon more young men are tubby than younger women. Still it's not that common. IMH anyway.

You're basing that on the tabloid style "AMERICA IS MORBIDLY OBESE" train of though which is incorrect. Most fat people in America are either overweight or obese. Only a small percentage are morbidly obese.

America in 1990 was at 33% overweight and obese combined. So, in 20 years their problem doubled in size.

Ireland's weight problem as similarly doubled since 1990 from around 16% to 33%. If this tend continues I find it hard to believe we WON'T end up like the US. All we have to do is look at the UK who were in our position a decade ago. They're no straddling 45% obesity+overweight and the NHS spends billions each year on the problem.

A few months? Ah c'mon. What's the average dress size in Ireland? 14-16? No way could someone drop to 14% bodyfat in a few months, not healthily anyway. Someone who is bigger than that? No way Ted. A mate of mine got pretty podgy and went hell for leather to drop the weight and he took well over a year to do it. And he was a bloke, so more muscle mass, testosterone and far less of the hormonal stuff going on. It's a lot more work than that and even more work if the weight is on someone for many a year, never mind that some people have a setpoint weight that's bigger and even if they starved themselves while running on a treadmill won't ever be skinny. As I said I'm skinny and I've mates who are bigger and the same height as me and they'd end up hospitalised if they got down to my weight.

Depends on the starting point. 25%? Yup. Could easily drop 10% of your bodyweight in 3-4 months healthily hitting all macro nutrients along the way.

As for this "set point" stuff - it doesn't exist. Any 'set point' is a psychological habit for eating X amount of food and can be easily readjusted by training yourself to lower portion sizes. No different to training yourself to wake up half an hour early.

If you starved yourself and ran on a treadmill, you'd lose weight and at some point, consciousness.

bluewolf wrote: »

14% was an odd number to pick for a woman

http://www.nerdfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/womenbodyfat1.jpg

http://www.leighpeele.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/female-body-fat-percentage-pictures.jpg

You've posted pictures of female bodybuilders - hardly indicative of the average Jane.

I couldn't find a 14% comparison but 15% with small muscle mass (most women who don't weight train) looks like this.