Not a member of union for Tuesday's Strike! (Thread Re-opened)

#1 · 28-11-2014 6:49pm #1

Just wondering if there is anyone else that isn't am amber of a Union ahead of the strike on Tuesday?
What are my options for Tuesday? The reason I was not a member of a union is because I was out of work for two years and only had 8.5 hours at the start of the year and was advised not to bother at that time.
I am now teaching almost full hours in another school. Some are advising to join while others are saying it is not worth my time!

I now don't know what to do. Do I stay home and loose a days wages? Do I go to school? Or do I just join a union?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

2011abc · 28-11-2014 7:54pm

Be very careful about this .There is a (remote) chance of a 'break in service' which could have massive consequences for staff especially more experienced ones .We were told write a letter to principal advising them that you are 'available for work' although to be honest there are 101 different scenarios being thrown around .
Some have stated on Voice For Teachers Facebook page that last time round uncertified sick leave was not accepted by Dept.
Get this sorted before Monday evening .

endacl · 28-11-2014 7:57pm

Advise your principle that you are not a member of a union and are available for work. The school will be closed and won't have to pass a picket. Enjoy your day off. You won't lose pay, and there'll be no break in service.

amacca · 28-11-2014 8:01pm

Not being smart but I don't think anyone can answer that except you

What do you think yourself? which of those options are you leaning towards

1) Sick day…don't lose a days pay

2) Go in…don't lose a days pay…deal with fallout/negative consequences from other staff members if any…you're in the best position to to decide how that might play out as only you know you're colleagues

3) Try and join, hopefully have it put through and protest in solidarity to protect your terms and conditions in to the future

4) Find out if the principal etc knows if you're in a union or even has a right to know….if they don't pretend you are in union and protest…accept the fact that maybe they still might know and there could be negative consequences to lying.

5) Protest anyway because you think it is the right thing to do. Accept the consequences.

there may be other options but I think thats fairly comprehensive.

basically its down to you….what do you think is right here?…..if you think the protest is justified…then maybe join or show solidarity and accept the consequences.

if you think its not then stand up for what you believe in and go into work and accept the consequences.

May not be much help but thats how I see it.

amacca · 28-11-2014 8:02pm

2011abc wrote: »

Some have stated on Voice For Teachers Facebook page that last time round uncertified sick leave was not accepted by Dept.

I fail to see how thats possible.

doc_17 · 28-11-2014 8:04pm

Join a union. If anything ever happened, such as losing your job/hours in an unfair manner to something like nepotism, they are a valuable resource. We all reap the rewards, yes there are rewards, so we should all contribute in my opinion. I know they sold out post 11 workers ( I was post 04 and I was sold out by older members) but the union are the only ones lobbying for post 11 entrants to regain their proper pay etc.

What the department want is for no union to exist them they would have carte Blanche to do whatever they wanted.

amacca · 28-11-2014 8:05pm

endacl wrote: »

Advise your principle that you are not a member of a union and are available for work. The school will be closed and won't have to pass a picket. Enjoy your day off. You won't lose pay, and there'll be no break in service.

Unfortunately thats not the case everywhere…some principals are telling non unionised staff they have to be in work.

I don't know if they have to because they are bound by rules or its an idealogical thing with them.

I suspect if you volunteer the information to them in a show of hand wringing oh woe is me what will I do type worry (but possibly really I just don't want to pay the subs because I think its no use to me) then they have no choice but to tell you to come in but Ill admit to not being sure of this.

amacca · 28-11-2014 8:10pm

doc_17 wrote: »

What the department want is for no union to exist them they would have carte Blanche to do whatever they wanted.

An increasing number of people just don't seem to be able to or want to join those dots unfortunately

A lot of long term pain being ignored for short term gain.

doc_17 · 28-11-2014 8:15pm

amacca wrote: »

An increasing number of people just don't seem to be able to or want to join those dots unfortunately

A lot of long term pain being ignored for short term gain.

Very true. I've been to congress a few times and the stories I hear would horrify you, especially from VECs/ETBs. Some of the things they do are outrageous and god only knows what they and the department would do if there wasn't a union.

seavill · 28-11-2014 8:23pm

flandabieduzie wrote: »

Just wondering if there is anyone else that isn't am amber of a Union ahead of the strike on Tuesday?
What are my options for Tuesday? The reason I was not a member of a union is because I was out of work for two years and only had 8.5 hours at the start of the year and was advised not to bother at that time.
I am now teaching almost full hours in another school. Some are advising to join while others are saying it is not worth my time!

I now don't know what to do. Do I stay home and loose a days wages? Do I go to school? Or do I just join a union?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I can't advise on what you should do really except speak to your principal on Monday.
However in relation to joining the union I have no idea why you are letting the opinions of others mean anything to you. Do you want to join the union? or have you some objection to joining the union? Other peoples opinions are irrelevant in this regard.

Do you want the security of some backup if anything should happen (although at times the backup is not great, others it is) or are you happy to fight your own corner on issues?
If you are comfortable doing this then don't join the union.

If you agree with the idea of unions and what they stand for, then join.

Only you can answer those questions, other people opinions are irrelevant as its a personal issue.

I thought I heard somewhere that principals and DPs were being advised not to go in on Tuesday so if they are not in and no kids in you shouldn't be expected to go in, even if you tell them you are available.

doc_17 · 28-11-2014 8:30pm

seavill wrote: »

I can't advise on what you should do really except speak to your principal on Monday.
However in relation to joining the union I have no idea why you are letting the opinions of others mean anything to you. Do you want to join the union? or have you some objection to joining the union? Other peoples opinions are irrelevant in this regard.

Do you want the security of some backup if anything should happen (although at times the backup is not great, others it is) or are you happy to fight your own corner on issues?
If you are comfortable doing this then don't join the union.

If you agree with the idea of unions and what they stand for, then join.

Only you can answer those questions, other people opinions are irrelevant as its a personal issue.

I thought I heard somewhere that principals and DPs were being advised not to go in on Tuesday so if they are not in and no kids in you shouldn't be expected to go in, even if you tell them you are available.

This. If you agre with unions and what they stand for. The race to bottom is alive and well and would be streaking even further ahead if it weren't for unions.

evolving_doors · 28-11-2014 10:18pm

flandabieduzie wrote: »

Just wondering if there is anyone else that isn't am amber of a Union ahead of the strike on Tuesday?
What are my options for Tuesday? The reason I was not a member of a union is because I was out of work for two years and only had 8.5 hours at the start of the year and was advised not to bother at that time.
I am now teaching almost full hours in another school. Some are advising to join while others are saying it is not worth my time!

I now don't know what to do. Do I stay home and loose a days wages? Do I go to school? Or do I just join a union?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Well at least you are seeking advice so that's a good thing.

If asked by non-union members what to do; the union reps in the schools have been instructed to tell you to either ...

A.Join the union and act accordingly.
or
B. Ask your principal what you should do. They will give you the non-union options.

Thread closed as this question is being done to death on the other thread. (Unless the OP wants further clarification in which case PM me and I'll re-open it)

Anyone else asks just send em here for a quick read.
MOD

.

evolving_doors · 30-11-2014 10:24pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Well at least you are seeking advice so that's a good thing.

If asked by non-union members what to do; the union reps in the schools have been instructed to tell you to either ...

A.Join the union and act accordingly.
or
B. Ask your principal what you should do. They will give you the non-union options.

Thread closed as this question is being done to death on the other thread. (Unless the OP wants further clarification in which case PM me and I'll re-open it)

Anyone else asks just send em here for a quick read.
MOD

.

UPDATE : Ok so it would appear that some non-union teachers are being instructed to be physically in the school on Tuesday. Is this true?

rainbowtrout · 30-11-2014 11:00pm

Armelodie wrote: »

UPDATE : Ok so it would appear that some non-union teachers are being instructed to be physically in the school on Tuesday. Is this true?

In my school we were all told that any member of staff that will be reporting for work on Tuesday was to tell the principal the same. Despite being a union member he is opening the school. :rolleyes:

He had the same meeting with the SNAs. I saw it more of a divide and conquer strategy. None of our non teaching staff are coming in on Tuesday to the best of my knowledge. We only have one non union teacher, don't know what they are doing yet, don't think they know themselves.

thefasteriwalk · 30-11-2014 11:20pm

We were unofficially advised to ring in sick.

evolving_doors · 30-11-2014 11:27pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

In my school we were all told that any member of staff that will be reporting for work on Tuesday was to tell the principal the same. Despite being a union member he is opening the school. :rolleyes:

He had the same meeting with the SNAs. I saw it more of a divide and conquer strategy. None of our non teaching staff are coming in on Tuesday to the best of my knowledge. We only have one non union teacher, don't know what they are doing yet, don't think they know themselves.

Go on rainbowtrout , you know what i'm going to suggest.... report his a55.

A strike means total withdrawal of labour; in this case for the full 24 hour
period.

Picketing should commence 30 minutes before the normal opening time of the
school/centre.

For the duration of the strike, members must remain completely off the
premises of the employer – tea breaks or “bathroom breaks” must be taken
elsewhere

rainbowtrout · 30-11-2014 11:43pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Go on rainbowtrout , you know what i'm going to suggest.... report his a55.

A strike means total withdrawal of labour; in this case for the full 24 hour
period.

Picketing should commence 30 minutes before the normal opening time of the
school/centre.

For the duration of the strike, members must remain completely off the
premises of the employer – tea breaks or “bathroom breaks” must be taken
elsewhere

Let's just say the union are aware of the situation.

TheDriver · 01-12-2014 1:38pm

Its not possible to ring in sick on Tues unless you have a cert, I believe this is the case across the ETBs.
I understand a number of staff members not in unions are having difficulty joining at short notice. This puts them in a bind.
Principals and DPs in a union should not be involved in school business that day unless for some massive health and safety reason i.e. school has been vandalised and must be dealt with etc.
I know that in some ETBs, the schools will be open extra early prior to any picketing for the purpose of "turning up to work"
SIPTU and IMPACT have instructed their members to work as normal and this must be respected also. These workers are in a bind. Imagine if 2 SIPTU workers had an issue in the building, would the whole school close?

RealJohn · 01-12-2014 2:44pm

What any members of staff not part of TUI or ASTI should be doing is coming to the gate and refusing to pass the picket. It's then up to their employers whether or not to dock them a day's pay or to accept that they made themselves available for work but were entitled to refuse to pass the picket.

While I don't advocate any bullying or intimidating behaviour, anyone who passes the picket should be told that they are undermining a legitimate protest by doing so and that we don't approve of their behaviour.

Any union member passing the picket for any reason must be reported, preferably being informed that this was what was going to happen. Whether you agree with the strike or not, you should forfeit your union protection for passing the picket.

r93kaey5p2izun · 01-12-2014 4:19pm

TheDriver wrote: »

Its not possible to ring in sick on Tues unless you have a cert, I believe this is the case across the ETBs.
I understand a number of staff members not in unions are having difficulty joining at short notice. This puts them in a bind.
Principals and DPs in a union should not be involved in school business that day unless for some massive health and safety reason i.e. school has been vandalised and must be dealt with etc.
I know that in some ETBs, the schools will be open extra early prior to any picketing for the purpose of "turning up to work"
SIPTU and IMPACT have instructed their members to work as normal and this must be respected also. These workers are in a bind. Imagine if 2 SIPTU workers had an issue in the building, would the whole school close?

Our non-union teachers have been told by ETB HR that self-certified sick leave is a legitimate option for tomorrow. TUI have said that new members will be considered accepted if online form is filled in by midnight tonight or if paper form is given to rep. Is it technical difficulties they are having? Or is ASTI working a different system?

Alqua · 01-12-2014 8:01pm

Our school was originally supposed to close tomorrow but is now opening (management are ASTI so they will be striking too). I'm non-union but have put my name down to picket - have I made a mess of this now meaning a break in service?

rainbowtrout · 01-12-2014 8:08pm

Alqua wrote: »

Our school was originally supposed to close tomorrow but is now opening (management are ASTI so they will be striking too). I'm non-union but have put my name down to picket - have I made a mess of this now meaning a break in service?

Who's opening the school?

I don't think you can join the picket if you are non union. You have the option of not crossing the picket.

Alqua · 01-12-2014 8:13pm

Will be literally just admin and maintenance staff from what I can gather. Hopefully I can explain to the union rep at the gate and just not cross the picket?

rainbowtrout · 01-12-2014 8:16pm

Alqua wrote: »

Will be literally just admin and maintenance staff from what I can gather. Hopefully I can explain to the union rep at the gate and just not cross the picket?

But who's opening the school? Caretaker? Union members have been instructed not to prevent people from passing the picket to go to work. I don't think you'll have to do much with the union to be honest.

vamos! · 01-12-2014 8:17pm

Two of my colleagues asked me to propose their ASTI membership. One sent away form last week and the other today. They are down to picket. I wonder do they need to contact ASTI or the department to explain that their membership may not yet be valid?

Alqua · 01-12-2014 8:23pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But who's opening the school? Caretaker? Union members have been instructed not to prevent people from passing the picket to go to work. I don't think you'll have to do much with the union to be honest.

The caretaker is opening the school. I'm just worried because there was a letter put up in the staffroom for non union members and I can't fully remember what it said. It was something along the lines of 'attend for work as usual', don't think it said anything about coming in extra early to avoid picket or anything like that..I hope!

spurious · 01-12-2014 8:50pm

When I was teaching, it was none of management's business who was or wasn't in the union. They may have had their suspicions (or even known for sure) that some people were non-union, but we never enlightened them either way (and they never indicated officially that they knew or suspected).
Has this changed now?

vamos! · 01-12-2014 8:53pm

How do they know who's supposed to be in school tomorrow? Union rep? Not on strike roster?

r93kaey5p2izun · 01-12-2014 9:00pm

vamos! wrote: »

How do they know who's supposed to be in school tomorrow? Union rep? Not on strike roster?

Would they have deduction at source info?

spurious · 01-12-2014 9:07pm

Margaret Vast Yeast wrote: »

Would they have deduction at source info?

They can't be given that under Data Protection stuff.

amacca · 01-12-2014 9:11pm

Margaret Vast Yeast wrote: »

Would they have deduction at source info?

Should they have, would be a more pertinent question imo

Not a member of union for Tuesday's Strike! (Thread Re-opened)

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