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Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Sclosages wrote: »
    The question is whether it is ok to shoot to kill someone unarmed.....

    If they are a threat to life then the answer has to be yes. You do not need a firearm to kill or seriously injure somebody.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Sclosages wrote: »
    The question is whether it is ok to shoot to kill someone unarmed.....

    There is a recent video after surfacing that questions this further in relation to the jury decision.

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh7Hck8V7HT1Ps9mnB


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    Beano wrote: »
    If they are a threat to life then the answer has to be yes. You do not need a firearm to kill or seriously injure somebody.

    Ah yeah - yer wan shoving me over at the bus-stop last week was a threat to my life - but fcuk it, I don't think I'd let off 12 bullets at her lol.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Sclosages wrote: »
    Ah yeah - yer wan shoving me over at the bus-stop last week was a threat to my life - but fcuk it, I don't think I'd let off 12 bullets at her lol.

    You're as much of a fool as End of the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Officer Wilson according to CNN has plans to return to college, he's decided to end his policing career.

    I suppose it makes sense considering he's a marked man in the area, a fresh start far away is in order. I'm sure the relevant authorities will facilitate this to happen.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 489 ✭✭Sclosages


    Officer Wilson according to CNN has plans to return to college, he's decided to end his policing career.

    I suppose it makes sense considering he's a marked man in the area, a fresh start far away is in order. I'm sure the relevant authorities will facilitate this to happen.

    Aw, bless him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,056 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    the answer is no
    So, if you had a gun and were being threatened by someone twice your size and twice as muscular, who was trying to take your gun, how would you defend yourself?

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Maybe it's just me, but this whole thing just didn't make any sense. If you wanted to riot over social injustice in the United States, I'd think you could find lots of better examples than this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    SeanW wrote: »
    So, if you had a gun and were being threatened by someone twice your size and twice as muscular, who was trying to take your gun, how would you defend yourself?

    presumably with his razor sharp wit


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    UCDVet wrote: »
    Maybe it's just me, but this whole thing just didn't make any sense. If you wanted to riot over social injustice in the United States, I'd think you could find lots of better examples than this.

    This was a kind of tipping point. The following is a video of a rapper called Killer Mike who went onstage to perform shortly after the verdict was announced. He manages to describe this better than anyone I have listened to so far.



    This is an interview that he gave on CNN a week after the initial shooting.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭h2005


    Sclosages wrote: »
    The question is whether it is ok to shoot to kill someone unarmed.....

    Like this case it very much depends on the circumstances. I'm baffled how anyone can just say no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    This was a kind of tipping point. The following is a video of a rapper called Killer Mike who went onstage to perform shortly after the verdict was announced. He manages to describe this better than anyone I have listened to so far.



    This is an interview that he gave on CNN a week after the initial shooting.


    I have to admit, I watched the video, but I'm not sure I understood it.

    He says:
    It's not about race.
    It's not about class.
    It is not about colour.

    It is about what they killed him for.
    It is about poverty.
    It is about greed.
    And it is about a war machine.
    It is about a war machine that uses you for a battery.

    The police officer that shot him, shot him in self defence. After he was assaulted and after a struggle for his firearm. And I've heard people go back and forth on the issue of whether or not Michael Brown stole from the convenience store or not; but there is video of him having a physical altercation (him assaulting the store clerk).

    I'm totally willing to accept that there is a 'war machine' in the United States; that people in power have some hidden agenda for keeping people in poverty. I mean, I'm not saying I believe that or not; I'm just saying I could be convinced.

    But couldn't they find a more compelling example? I just don't see how this shooting shows any of those things.

    There are lots of examples of (black) men who were on death row in the US for 10,20,30 years - waiting to die - only to be proven innocent by DNA evidence. And in many of these cases, they can show police wrong doing that made it possible. Where the crooked police destroyed evidence or planed evidence or lied under oath....to put someone way, to die.

    I mean, riot over an innocent man spending 30 years in jail. That's an example of the corrupt system unjustly targeting people. I could get behind that. I could agree with the people protesting that.

    But when someone gets shot after fighting with a cop and trying to take his gun. I dunno. Admittedly, I'm not from a poor neighborhood in the US, so maybe I just don't get it....but when I hear the story, I think, 'Yeah, that sounds about right'. I don't feel any anger about it.

    I still, honestly, don't understand what people were protesting. Do they think this is a massive cover-up and Brown didn't do anything wrong? Are they protesting that cops carry guns? Like, I don't understand what the non-violent protesters actually want to change.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Officer Wilson according to CNN has plans to return to college, he's decided to end his policing career.

    I suppose it makes sense considering he's a marked man in the area, a fresh start far away is in order. I'm sure the relevant authorities will facilitate this to happen.

    I feel sorry for the man just trying to do his duty in a very situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Boom Bap: "This was a kind of tipping point. The following is a video of a rapper called Killer Mike who went onstage to perform shortly after the verdict was announced. He manages to describe this better than anyone I have listened to so far."

    Describe what better? The absolute and utter delusion that Michael Brown was not a violent offender who attacked a police officer? The ongoing denial by so many on this thread is truly a thing to marvel at.

    In other news, see a few of the many white victims of black violence you will never see on your screen:


    ” 7/18-Jimmie Norman, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/18-Terry Taylor, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/17-Cindy Raygoza, white female murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/11-Luis Aguilar, 91 year old Hispanic male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/10-Brittany Simpson, white female murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/6-Sarah Goode, white female murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/6-Jeffrey Westerfield, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/5-Perry Renn, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/3-Laurey Kennedy, white female still in coma from beating by black male. No national news

    7/3-Eric Mollet, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/2-Rupert Anderson, white male murdered by black male. No national news.

    7/2-Jennifer Kingeter, white female murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/30-Jim Brennan, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/29-Shephard, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/27-Shirley Barone, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/27-Penelope Spencer, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/26-Jake Rameau, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/25-Gina Burger, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/24- Dasher, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/22-Jonathan Price, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/18-John Yingling, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/17-Allyn Reeves, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/15-Michael Beaver, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/11-Angela Cook, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/11-Hall, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/7-Harry Briggs, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.

    6/2-Robert Mohler, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.”


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I have to admit, I watched the video, but I'm not sure I understood it.

    He says:


    The police officer that shot him, shot him in self defence. After he was assaulted and after a struggle for his firearm. And I've heard people go back and forth on the issue of whether or not Michael Brown stole from the convenience store or not; but there is video of him having a physical altercation (him assaulting the store clerk).

    I'm totally willing to accept that there is a 'war machine' in the United States; that people in power have some hidden agenda for keeping people in poverty. I mean, I'm not saying I believe that or not; I'm just saying I could be convinced.

    But couldn't they find a more compelling example? I just don't see how this shooting shows any of those things.

    There are lots of examples of (black) men who were on death row in the US for 10,20,30 years - waiting to die - only to be proven innocent by DNA evidence. And in many of these cases, they can show police wrong doing that made it possible. Where the crooked police destroyed evidence or planed evidence or lied under oath....to put someone way, to die.

    I mean, riot over an innocent man spending 30 years in jail. That's an example of the corrupt system unjustly targeting people. I could get behind that. I could agree with the people protesting that.

    But when someone gets shot after fighting with a cop and trying to take his gun. I dunno. Admittedly, I'm not from a poor neighborhood in the US, so maybe I just don't get it....but when I hear the story, I think, 'Yeah, that sounds about right'. I don't feel any anger about it.

    I still, honestly, don't understand what people were protesting. Do they think this is a massive cover-up and Brown didn't do anything wrong? Are they protesting that cops carry guns? Like, I don't understand what the non-violent protesters actually want to change.

    I'm totally with you. The immediate aftermath after the shooting also plays into how the situation escalated. This when people started to get together and make a stand.
    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Describe what better? The absolute and utter delusion that Michael Brown was not a violent offender who attacked a police officer? The ongoing denial by so many on this thread is truly a thing to marvel at.

    In other interviews he (Killer Mike) acknowledges that Brown was no angel, from what I have seen of the store footage and from Wilsons interview, I myself hold that same position. He was being a thug on those 2 incidents that were in short proximity of each other.

    That is still no excuse for his death. I personally think that officer Wilson could have done things differently, he called for backup and didn't wait even though he was injured after the initial struggle through the car window.
    My understanding is that the police officer must apprehend the suspect, but Wilson knew he couldn't, so should have made the judgement call not to persue and wait for his backup to arrive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    In other interviews he (Killer Mike) acknowledges that Brown was no angel

    He said he was a college bound kid who got involved with some silliness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 198 ✭✭mark13




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    He said he was a college bound kid who got involved with some silliness.

    robbing a store and assaulting a police officer is silliness now is it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Beano wrote: »
    robbing a store and assaulting a police officer is silliness now is it?


    Thats what Gangster Rapper, Killer Mike says.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    He said he was a college bound kid who got involved with some silliness.

    Same as over here when some scut is dragged before the court for causing trouble and the usual story comes out about the lad been a great ex sports star and just fell in with the wrong crowd.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Describe what better? The absolute and utter delusion that Michael Brown was not a violent offender who attacked a police officer? The ongoing denial by so many on this thread is truly a thing to marvel at.

    In other news, see a few of the many white victims of black violence you will never see on your screen:


    ” 7/18-Jimmie Norman, (..........). No national news.”

    Source for that list?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    Thats what Gangster Rapper, Killer Mike says.
    You should really watch the video's I posted earlier where he discusses that.

    Killer Mike is a play on words. His name is Mike, he kills mics.
    Gangster themed rap, but there is always a message outside of that in his music.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    You should really watch the video's I posted earlier where he discusses that.

    Killer Mike is a play on words. His name is Mike, he kills mics.
    Gangster themed rap, but there is always a message outside of that in his music.

    But is that what he said?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭Fuhrer


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    You should really watch the video's I posted earlier where he discusses that.

    Killer Mike is a play on words. His name is Mike, he kills mics.
    Gangster themed rap, but there is always a message outside of that in his music.

    His explanation over his name after being asked about his potentially hypocritical stance doesn't particularly seem credible to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Nodin wrote: »
    Source for that list?

    Someone has compiled a list of some of the white victims of the last few months and posted them. There are lots more in fact that are missing from this list.You can look them up if you so desire.

    Point is there are loads of white people murdered by blacks and these cases rarely, if ever, get national media attention--much less global attention.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Describe what better? The absolute and utter delusion that Michael Brown was not a violent offender who attacked a police officer? The ongoing denial by so many on this thread is truly a thing to marvel at.

    it was a little struggle. that was all

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    You should really watch the video's I posted earlier where he discusses that.

    Killer Mike is a play on words. His name is Mike, he kills mics.
    Gangster themed rap, but there is always a message outside of that in his music.

    From the little I've seen of him, I think it's safe to say that 'Killer Mike' isn't a killer/doesn't promote violence. Honestly, he reminded me more of an enthusiastic preacher than a rapper. Until he started rapping :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Someone has compiled a list of some of the white victims of the last few months and posted them. .

    Yes, I gathered that. Could you give me a link to where you got them please?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    it was a little struggle. that was all

    I would love to see what you thought a major struggle was. Would World War 2 count as a major struggle to you?


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Fuhrer wrote: »
    His explanation over his name after being asked about his potentially hypocritical stance doesn't particularly seem credible to me.

    That's OK, it sits well with me. In the news that I follow, alot of it is hip hop related so I can see alot of the hip hop community speaking out about Ferguson. He is the one that has stood out for me speaking logically about the situation, speaking his mind (which happens to be logical as well), familiar with culture, an activist in his own area, has children growing up in this culture, has background of his father being an officer.....and lots more.
    So in me searching for a balanced view on what has happened, I've drifted to Killer Mike as someone to listen to.
    I'm not trying to force his opinions, or mine on anyone else. But in the interest of getting balance, I find it's necessary to hear from all different angles.
    UCDVet wrote: »
    From the little I've seen of him, I think it's safe to say that 'Killer Mike' isn't a killer/doesn't promote violence. Honestly, he reminded me more of an enthusiastic preacher than a rapper. Until he started rapping :)

    He also looks like he gives great hugs. :pac:


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