Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

ohnonotgmail

Egginacup wrote: »

Excuse me but you don't pull over a car that you suspect has a broken light because it's old. You pull over a car when you can see clearly that the light is broken. Or the driver is speeding or didn't signal a lane change or ran a stop sign or red light. Now you're really reaching into the realms of farce.

And as for solely focussing on the race of the driver..of course I'm focussing on the race of the driver. Nearly 9 out of 10 people pulled over by the police in Ferguson are black. Only two thirds of the population are black. In fact these number are even more startling because blacks being poorer as you earlier pointed out are even less likely to have a car. So while the demographics of the area are 2 to 1, the ratio of black drivers to white drivers is more likely to be 50/50.

less likely to have a car but more likely to have a ****ty car. Perhaps you should try to read the link i posted. I found this quote near the end quite revealing

The PPCS also asked survey respondents who reported a traffic stop
whether they believed that they had been stopped “for a legitimate reason.”
Regardless of race or ethnicity, large majorities of the respondents indicated
that they had indeed been stopped for a legitimate reason. However, Whites
(86%) and Hispanics (82%) were somewhat more likely than Blacks (74%)
to agree with this statement. These group differences remain the same
regardless of the race of the officer who made the stop

So even if we assume that there is racial profiling taking place it is not cops pulling black guys over for the hell of it which is what you are trying to imply

Egginacup

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

less likely to have a car but more likely to have a ****ty car. Perhaps you should try to read the link i posted. I found this quote near the end quite revealing



So even if we assume that there is racial profiling taking place it is not cops pulling black guys over for the hell of it which is what you are trying to imply

That survey is a joke. A cop is never going to tell someone that they pulled them over for no good reason. The cop will either have a good reason or he will make one up. It's very difficult for a driver to dispute some vaguely innocuous traffic infraction like not signalling a lane change. Consequently when taking this survey he will state that yes the stop was legitimate even if it wasn't.
Even if the guy is driving in a perfectly roadworthy vehicle and obeying the rules of the road to the letter the cop who pulls him over and asks for license and registration can still make up some crap story that he received reports of a stolen car matching the driver's vehicle.

Amazingfun

That survey is a joke.

So are much of your posts.

ohnonotgmail

Egginacup wrote: »

That survey is a joke. A cop is never going to tell someone that they pulled them over for no good reason. The cop will either have a good reason or he will make one up. It's very difficult for a driver to dispute some vaguely innocuous traffic infraction like not signalling a lane change. Consequently when taking this survey he will state that yes the stop was legitimate even if it wasn't.
Even if the guy is driving in a perfectly roadworthy vehicle and obeying the rules of the road to the letter the cop who pulls him over and asks for license and registration can still make up some crap story that he received reports of a stolen car matching the driver's vehicle.

i noticed you didnt respond to anything actually in that post

Hans Bricks

Ireland's neckbeards are going international baby.

What does it matter what the percentage of the USA's prison population is whether they're black, white, latino or vietnamese-american ? Criminals are criminals are they not ?

It's like giving out because more people from Ballyfermot, West Tallaght and Darndale have a higher "predisposition" to crime. As SeanW pointed out ... greater poverty, historical disadvantage, a culture of criminality, low income, less opportunities etc. are major factors here. Not that hard lads. I doubt that African American driver was as upset as half of ye are getting over this.

Hans Bricks

Egginacup wrote: »

That survey is a joke. A cop is never going to tell someone that they pulled them over for no good reason. The cop will either have a good reason or he will make one up. It's very difficult for a driver to dispute some vaguely innocuous traffic infraction like not signalling a lane change. Consequently when taking this survey he will state that yes the stop was legitimate even if it wasn't.
Even if the guy is driving in a perfectly roadworthy vehicle and obeying the rules of the road to the letter the cop who pulls him over and asks for license and registration can still make up some crap story that he received reports of a stolen car matching the driver's vehicle.

You'd love the Broken Windows theory.

h2005

Egginacup wrote: »

How does poverty come into play when getting pulled over in your car?
The less money you have the shittier your driving? Is that what you're trying to infer?

I'm unsure of the law regarding traffic stops in Missouri I know that in Massachusetts that you have to have done something wrong , such as break a red light or have a tail light out. Is it the same in Missouri? Poverty would become a factor then as generally the wealthier you are the better the car you will be driving. What's the racial breakdown of police officers in Ferguson?

Manic Moran

It is worth noting the other part of the report as well. They have no reason to disbelieve Officer Wilson's account of the shooting, stating that the witnesses claiming Brown was surrendering are at odds with forensics and other credible witnesses who were afraid to come forward out of fear that they would be targeted by their neighbors.

SeanW

I seem to recall somewhere that a witness was murdered for telling a story that contradicted the "Michael Brown was a helpless victim narrative"

darkpagandeath

SeanW wrote: »

I seem to recall somewhere that a witness was murdered for telling a story that contradicted the "Michael Brown was a helpless victim narrative"

That can't be true, Or Social media would have exposed this heinous crime. You know for balance and all that.....

TommyOM

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is worth noting the other part of the report as well. They have no reason to disbelieve Officer Wilson's account of the shooting, stating that the witnesses claiming Brown was surrendering are at odds with forensics and other credible witnesses who were afraid to come forward out of fear that they would be targeted by their neighbors.

Other credible witnesses who haven't come forward... basically you're saying that there are other people who can support Wilson's claims but the reason they haven't come forward is because they are too afraid. So basically these 'credible witnesses' don't actually exist except in the mind of those who will do anything to defend guns and law enforcement (especially when the victim is a black male)

There was one forensic expert who was assigned to the case however as we have learned another forensic expert seriously cast doubt on the findings.

K.O.Kiki

SeanW wrote: »

I seem to recall somewhere that a witness was murdered for telling a story that contradicted the "Michael Brown was a helpless victim narrative"

Do yourself a favour, and stop trusting yourself unless you have a source.

darkpagandeath

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Do yourself a favour, and stop trusting yourself unless you have a source.

Fast google tells a different story 2 witnesses found dead already.

K.O.Kiki

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Fast google tells a different story 2 witnesses found dead already.

Please show source.

Hans Bricks

TommyOM wrote: »

Other credible witnesses who haven't come forward... basically you're saying that there are other people who can support Wilson's claims but the reason they haven't come forward is because they are too afraid. So basically these 'credible witnesses' don't actually exist except in the mind of those who will do anything to defend guns and law enforcement (especially when the victim is a black male)

There was one forensic expert who was assigned to the case however as we have learned another forensic expert seriously cast doubt on the findings.

Or ... yano, go with the facts presented by forensics. Many witness accounts have contradicted each other.

Manic Moran

TommyOM wrote: »

Other credible witnesses who haven't come forward... basically you're saying that there are other people who can support Wilson's claims but the reason they haven't come forward is because they are too afraid. So basically these 'credible witnesses' don't actually exist except in the mind of those who will do anything to defend guns and law enforcement (especially when the victim is a black male)

No, the credible witnesses who came forward to both the FBI and the local police several days later, instead of coming forward on the day and speaking to the media.

Perhaps you wish to acquaint yourself with the report.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf

Although there are several individuals who have stated that Brown held his hands up in an unambiguous sign of surrender prior to Wilson shooting him dead, their accounts do not support a prosecution of Wilson. As detailed throughout this report, some of those accounts are inaccurate because they are inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence; some of those accounts are materially inconsistent with that witness’s own prior statements with no explanation, credible for otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time. Certain other witnesses who originally stated Brown had his hands up in surrender recanted their original accounts, admitting that they did not witness the shooting or parts of it, despite what they initially reported either to federal or local law enforcement or to the media.

While credible witnesses gave varying accounts of exactly what Brown was doing with his hands as he moved toward Wilson – i.e., balling them, holding them out, or pulling up his pants up – and varying accounts of how he was moving – i.e., “charging,” moving in “slow motion,” or “running” – they all establish that Brown was moving toward Wilson when Wilson shot him. Although some witnesses state that Brown held his hands up at shoulder level with his palms facing outward for a brief moment, these same witnesses describe Brown then dropping his hands and “charging” at Wilson.

The report then goes over every witness and as to why they believe they were credible or not.

Killer Wench

Dear Mods,

Can the last page or two of this thread be added to this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057410389&page=4

Thanks!

Boom_Bap

Done. Please keep discussion on this thread to the Ferguson incident.