Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

reprise · 26-11-2014 11:51PM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Really? all of them? "a special breed?

Now, where have I come across this type of generalisation before?

reprise · 26-11-2014 11:51PM

end of the road wrote: »

nothing of the sort was suggested

Says who?

(bless)

end of the road · 27-11-2014 12:06AM

reprise wrote: »

Says who?

(bless)

the whole thread itself. of course it had to be pointed out to you by nodin

reprise · 27-11-2014 12:10AM

end of the road wrote: »

the whole thread itself. of course it had to be pointed out to you by nodin

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

(Bless)

Banned for baiting user.

Mod.

jank · 27-11-2014 12:35AM

Nodin wrote: »

Nothing of the sort was suggested.

Given the level of trial by media engaged in this thread and generally we can certainly make a case for it given the standard of 'evidence' put forward. Next time Ireland loses a rugby game, we should all go out and riot.

I think the whole thing is a shame that instead of trying to focus on helping a community stem the tide of violence and ask real pointed questions like why black children are more likely than other children (white, Asian, Hispanic) to grow up fatherless.

It is a nurture issue, not a nature issue. The usual crowd detract from these valid question and engage in cat calling instead.

end of the road · 27-11-2014 12:51AM

jank wrote: »

I think the whole thing is a shame that instead of trying to focus on helping a community stem the tide of violence and ask real pointed questions like why black children are more likely than other children (white, Asian, Hispanic) to grow up fatherless.

people are focusing on helping the community stem the tide of violence. but until the police behave properly and can be trusted, nothing will change. those questions are being asked and debated all the time.

jank wrote: »

The usual crowd detract from these valid question and engage in cat calling instead.

no they don't.

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 02:01AM

Ok the AP story is up:

FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) — Some witnesses said Michael Brown had been shot in the back. Another said he was lying face-down when Officer Darren Wilson finished him off. Still others acknowledged changing their stories to fit published details about the autopsy, or admitted that they didn't see the shooting at all.

An Associated Press review of thousands of pages of grand jury documents reveals numerous examples of statements made during the shooting investigation that were inconsistent, fabricated or provably wrong.

Read the rest here:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/078c82ad45ff4ec6aa1c7744dfa7df14/grand-jury-documents-rife-inconsistencies

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 02:03AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Just got to testimony relevant to item #4. The investigators have to make a conscious decision between testing a gun for fingerprints and testing it for DNA. They cannot do both. (I presume because the fingerprint kit destroys DNA, and the swabbing with moist Q-tips destroys fingerprints). The detective in charge of securing Wilson's sidearm evidence goes over the decision-making process and why they chose to go the DNA route and not the fingerprint route.

Frankly, that HuffPo article is not to be taken as a reference, IMO.

Amen to that

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 02:13AM

Not confirmed as of yet, but if true is appalling:

First Pro-Truth Witness Murdered? Or, Just Trying To Get To Dorian? DeAndre Joshua, 20, found dead yards from scene of Michael Brown’s death.

Posted on November 25, 2014

DeAndre Joshua, 20, fits the social profile of an eye-witness who gave a police/FBI statement and testified before the Grand Jury in the Mike Brown shooting case. He was an employed black male, with no history of drug use or illicit behavior. He was also a friend of Dorian Johnson who is currently under protection.

***(this is the body that was found shot/murdered and burned in a car. It was posted earlier in the thread by me late last night. RIP to the poor soul.)

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/11/25/first-pro-truth-grand-jury-witness-murdered-deandre-joshua-20-found-dead-yards-from-scene-of-michael-browns-death/

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 02:37AM

From the New York Post:

The case is a terrible tragedy. But it isn’t a metaphor for police brutality or race repression or anything else, and never was.

Aided and abetted by a compliant national media, the Ferguson protesters spun a dishonest or misinformed version of what happened — Michael Brown murdered in cold blood while trying to surrender — into a meme and a chant (“Hands up, don’t shoot”), and then a mini-movement.

When the facts didn’t back their narrative, they dismissed the facts and retreated into paranoid suspicion of the legal system.

More here:

http://nypost.com/2014/11/26/the-inconvenient-and-tragic-truths/

jank · 27-11-2014 03:19AM

end of the road wrote: »

people are focusing on helping the community stem the tide of violence. but until the police behave properly and can be trusted, nothing will change. those questions are being asked and debated all the time.

Ah, ok... Tell me how is it the fault of the police that black homicide rate is so high where 93% are killed by other blacks. I posted a video earlier detailing how a black 5 year old girl was shot in the head by a drive by shooting... now tell me, from the comfort of you leafy Irish suburb, how that is the fault of the police and not the criminals, who grew up in the same broken community.

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 10:44AM

I hate that "hands up, don't shoot" meme going round. There's a shrine in the spot where Mike Brown died that has one of thsoe signs.
These people have been whipped into a frenzy without having looked at the evidence of what actually happened. Aided and abeited by some sections of the media and the likes of celebrities on social media jumping on the bandwagon, stirring the pot.
I can understand the family and community's anger but this "hands up dont shoot" stuff is just bullsh*t.

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 10:47AM

Agree except for this:

The family and community have a right to be angry

What right? Their son, one the mother has the audacity to claim "wouldn't hurt anybody", attacked a police officer!

jacksie66 · 27-11-2014 10:49AM

This post has been deleted.

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 10:55AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Agree except for this:

What right? Their son, one the mother has the audacity to claim "wouldn't hurt anybody", attacked a police officer!

Yeah... maybe 'have a right' isnt the right phrase. But their son has died. I can understand their anger. I understand where they're coming from. Its a natural reaction to something like this. So too for the community. I'm not exonerating Mike Brown, but anger is natural feeling in the grieving process, even moreso in these circumstances. That why people outside of the community who have a chance to step back and look at the facts in the cold light of day get my goat with this social media sh*te.

DeadHand · 27-11-2014 12:33PM

It occurs to me that if sections of the Black community in Ferguson would devote as much effort and manpower into combating the rampant criminality and appalling violence in their own communities as they did in destroying their own town over a percieved injustice these communities would produce fewer violent, young thugs like Mike Brown.

Also, if that witness was killed for testifying against Brown, will the internet light up again with far removed people expressing outrage, will the folk of Ferguson mobilise en masse again on the streets in condemnation those who killed him?

Doubt it.

Seems an honest, young, black man's unlawful murder is less tragic in some eyes than the lawful killing of a young, black criminal by a white cop.

Amazingfun · 27-11-2014 10:10PM

More on how the truth matters little to many of these protesters:

To some, it doesn't matters whether Brown's hands literally were raised, because his death has come to symbolize a much bigger movement.

"He wasn't shot because of the placement of his hands; he was shot because he was a big, black, scary man,"

:rolleyes:

In Ferguson, some protesters have been wearing shirts with the phrase as they demonstrate outside the police station.

Protester Taylor Gruenloh, a 32-year-old white man from nearby Florissant, said that while he believes there's truth to claims that Brown had his hands raised when shot, the lack of proof makes little difference to protesters who have found it to be a unifying force.

"Even if you don't find that it's true, it's a valid rallying cry," he said. "It's just a metaphor."

See? Even the truth cannot overcome their devotion towards victim hood. It's an identity and one they will never relinquish, facts be damned.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FERGUSON_HANDS_UP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-27-15-46-08

slightly_broke · 27-11-2014 11:39PM

DeadHand wrote: »

It occurs to me that if sections of the Black community in Ferguson would devote as much effort and manpower into combating the rampant criminality and appalling violence in their own communities as they did in destroying their own town over a percieved injustice these communities would produce fewer violent, young thugs like Mike Brown.

Also, if that witness was killed for testifying against Brown, will the internet light up again with far removed people expressing outrage, will the folk of Ferguson mobilise en masse again on the streets in condemnation those who killed him?

Doubt it.

Seems an honest, young, black man's unlawful murder is less tragic in some eyes than the lawful killing of a young, black criminal by a white cop.

the looting is to be condemned but it does appear the cop was trigger happy which is far too common

the police have a pretty patchy record when it comes to administering justice in predominantly african american communtys , of that their is little doubt

Manic Moran · 28-11-2014 12:09AM

slightly_broke wrote: »

the looting is to be condemned but it does appear the cop was trigger happy which is far too common

the police have a pretty patchy record when it comes to administering justice in predominantly african american communtys , of that their is little doubt

"It does appear?" You have looked at all the evidence and formed a different conclusion to the grand jury? Well done, if so, I'm only 400 pages in, barely starting document 4 of about 50.

slightly_broke · 28-11-2014 12:21AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

"It does appear?" You have looked at all the evidence and formed a different conclusion to the grand jury? Well done, if so, I'm only 400 pages in, barely starting document 4 of about 50.

why could a trained police officer not just have shot the guy in the knees , the attacked had to be restrained but why anymore than that , he did not approach the police officer armed , their was no immediete threat to the cops life

slightly_broke · 28-11-2014 12:22AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

"It does appear?" You have looked at all the evidence and formed a different conclusion to the grand jury? Well done, if so, I'm only 400 pages in, barely starting document 4 of about 50.

why could a trained police officer not just have shot the guy in the knees , the attacker had to be restrained but why anymore than that , he did not approach the police officer armed , their was no immediete threat to the cops life

Beano · 28-11-2014 12:31AM

slightly_broke wrote: »

why could a trained police officer not just have shot the guy in the knees ....

Why is this rubbish always trotted out?

Montroseee · 28-11-2014 12:34AM

slightly_broke wrote: »

why could a trained police officer not just have shot the guy in the knees , the attacker had to be restrained but why anymore than that , he did not approach the police officer armed , their was no immediete threat to the cops life

This type of thing is Hollywood stuff, it doesn't happen for quite obvious reasons. When police shoot they aim for the mid-section, in saying that I was really shocked to hear the man was shot twelve times. After 3 or 4 shots is somebody really still a viable threat? It's obvious that police operate a shoot-to-kill policy in these type of cases.

Beano · 28-11-2014 12:39AM

Montroseee wrote: »

This type of thing is Hollywood stuff, it doesn't happen for quite obvious reasons. When police shoot they aim for the mid-section, in saying that I was really shocked to hear the man was shot twelve times. After 3 or 4 shots is somebody really still a viable threat? It's obvious that police operate a shoot-to-kill policy in these type of cases.

he was shot AT 12 times. he was hit 6. He didnt stop advancing towards the officer until he was shot in the head. So yes, he was still a threat after being shot 5 times. Not all wounds are disabling.

Carlos Orange · 28-11-2014 12:39AM

Beano wrote: »

Why is this rubbish always trotted out?

Because a single bullet is rarely fatal in movies or tvshows. Especially for the good guys.

Boom_Bap · 28-11-2014 12:02PM

Beano wrote: »

he was shot AT 12 times. he was hit 6. He didnt stop advancing towards the officer until he was shot in the head. So yes, he was still a threat after being shot 5 times. Not all wounds are disabling.

I was watching a video from a forensic guy on some news show in the USA who said something like the follow....
The fatal shot(s) in the head would suggest that he was already on his way to the ground. The only way he was advancing at this stage is that his momentum from falling or stumbling was carrying him forward. So essentially threat was subsiding as he was already heading towards the ground.

There's also talk that he was getting prone into an American Football style tackling postion. American footballers never put thier heads down when tackling.

Nerdlingr · 28-11-2014 12:20PM

There is also the suggestion that he was charging at Wilson with his head down.

Sclosages · 28-11-2014 03:16PM

The question is whether it is ok to shoot to kill someone unarmed.....

end of the road · 28-11-2014 03:21PM

Sclosages wrote: »

The question is whether it is ok to shoot to kill someone unarmed.....

the answer is no

Sclosages · 28-11-2014 03:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

the answer is no

But apparently it is.... Sad really.

Imagine if this happened in Ireland?

Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

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