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Halal meat

135

Comments

  • #62
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    Gbear wrote: »
    And shooting them in the head, keeping them stuffed in pens and eating their flesh suggests what exactly?

    You think keeping them stuffed in pens, slitting their throats, leaving them in agony and then eating there flesh is better or the same?


  • #63
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    You think keeping them stuffed in pens, slitting their throats, leaving them in agony and then eating there flesh is better or the same?

    You're basing this off what exactly??


  • #64
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    That is true. Which is why I encourage a vegan lifestyle for people who can! But in situations where thy can't personally I think the bolt method is slightly less inhumane

    In what way? If done properly both methods result in a very quick death.


  • #65
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    Packrat wrote: »
    I choose NOT to support barbaric medieval practices carried out in the name of non - existent sky faries or the fcuktards who profit from them.

    but the people who are involved in Halal meat are muslims...they worship Allah.

    :confused:


  • #66
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    but the people who are involved in Halal meat are muslims...they worship Allah.

    :confused:

    Yeah - they cracked the secret code of:

    Bismillah
    Allahu akbar
    Allahu akbar
    Allahu akbar

    Unlike the sky fairy which is just silly. The Bismillah, Allahu akbar thing actually makes sense. It keeps the food clean and pure.


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  • #67
    brevity
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭brevity


    I remember a discussion on boards before that there wasn't much of a difference between Halal slaughter and what we over here would consider "normal" slaughter. The only difference being that some sort of prayer was said.


  • #68
    Packrat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭Packrat


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    but the people who are involved in Halal meat are muslims...they worship Allah.

    :confused:

    Exactly, the 'religion of peace' - "you are unclean and deserve to have your head chopped off because you believe in a different type of sky fairy" ie: Fcuktards.


  • #69
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Dr. Lollington wrote: »
    Jesus or Allah or whatever mythical character wept. I nearly got sick reading that, would you put you off chicken for life!

    It took me a full year since I left there to eat chicken again and TBH I could probably go the rest of my life without eating it again! Yiiick.

    We used to hate when the head chef would come in with a new dish and cook it up for us to taste - we'd all be gagging trying to pretend we loved it! :(


  • #70
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    brevity wrote: »
    I remember a discussion on boards before that there wasn't much of a difference between Halal slaughter and what we over here would consider "normal" slaughter. The only difference being that some sort of prayer was said.

    Certain countries where halal slaughter is practiced allow for the use of non-penetrative captive bolt guns before the throat is slit, as technically the animal is still alive (heart is still beating), and meets the requirements for halal, while still meeting the requirements for slaughtering practises in the country in question.


  • #71
    Gummy Panda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,919 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    I regularly say Ally Snackbar when choking the chicken


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  • #72
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,023 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Egginacup wrote: »
    It's the exact same as non-halal meat.
    Tell that to a muslim and while you're at it, ask them to eat non halal meat. Report back here!


  • #73
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    shedweller wrote: »
    Tell that to a muslim and while you're at it, ask them to eat non halal meat. Report back here!

    I might be wrong, but I didn't think Muslims had a problem with eating non halal meat, so long as they can't reasonably find halal meat? I don't think they'd get angry or flip out; they'd either decline if they had other food, or accept if it was the only food available.


  • #74
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    I was curious as to peoples opinion of Halal meat?
    What is your opinion of kosher?


  • #75
    barry181091
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭barry181091


    If the animal is actually stunned beforehand, then its ok in my books. Otherwise, its just unnecessary suffering. For all I care, you can dance around the maypole during it and call it 'May Day Meat'


  • #76
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Animals were slaughtered pretty much exactly the same way as the Halal method here when I grew up. As Mohammad himself said, "Mention the name of Allah upon it, and ate it ta fuck!". (He was originally from East Limerick...)


  • #77
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    mike_ie wrote: »
    You're basing this off what exactly??

    The fact that it can take anywhere from 2-8 minutes of consciousness for the animal to bleed out.


  • #78
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    biko wrote: »
    What is your opinion of kosher?

    The exact same. Any form of slaughter, for religious reasons or otherwise, where the animal suffers more then an alternative method is unacceptable to me


  • #79
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    barry181091 wrote: »
    If the animal is actually stunned beforehand, then its ok in my books. Otherwise, its just unnecessary suffering. For all I care, you can dance around the maypole during it and call it 'May Day Meat'

    Me neither, but here they are not.


  • #80
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Simple solution to this. Ensure that ethical standards of animal welfare & slaughter are applied across the board in the EU. No exceptions, religious or otherwise. If someone wants to recite the Koran/Torah/Nicki Minaj lyrics/whatever on top of that fine. Label any meat that has undergone Halal/Kosher slaughter so consumers can make the choice & act according to their own beliefs/consience.


  • #81
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    The exact same. Any form of slaughter, for religious reasons or otherwise, where the animal suffers more then an alternative method is unacceptable to me

    but you havent established that they do suffer more. you're just presuming they do.


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  • #82
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    Beano wrote: »
    but you havent established that they do suffer more. you're just presuming they do.

    We have, stunning animals knocks them out for this very reason, halal methods mean the animal bleeds out in no form of sedated state. In Ireland they get their throats slashed and die from blood loss, as I've stated previously they often don't lose consciousness for 2-8 minutes.


  • #83
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    The exact same. Any form of slaughter, for religious reasons or otherwise, where the animal suffers more then an alternative method is unacceptable to me

    Not what you were saying a few posts back....
    I totally agree with kosher meat, I was interested in finding out about Halal
    because a few places have popped up that only serve it.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93031360&postcount=43


  • #84
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    The exact same. Any form of slaughter, for religious reasons or otherwise, where the animal suffers more then an alternative method is unacceptable to me

    Then you may be interested to read a study carried out in Hanover University quite few years back, that compared captive bolt slaughter to Islamic slaughter - they implanted electrodes in cows heads, let them heal, then hooked up to an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) before slaughtering them.

    Experimental Details:

    1. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of thebrain.

    2. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks.

    3. Some animals were slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and carotid Arteries of both sides; as also the trachea and esophagusHalal Method.

    4. Some animals were stunned using a captive bolt pistol humane slaughter by the western method.

    5. During the experiment, EEG and ECG were recorded on all animals to record the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning.

    RESULTS

    I - Halal Method

    1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.

    2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.

    3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.

    4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.

    II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning

    1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.

    2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.

    3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood inthe meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.


    I find it odd that people who have zero experience of animal slaughter are able to paint a picture of kosher or halal slaughter as something akin to hacking their heads off with a rusty machete, whereas captive bolt is portrayed along the lines of it being a sunny day, with the Babybel laughing cow practically running towards the slaughterhouse. The fact is, while neither are pretty, both, when done by someone skilled at the task, are as pain free as possible. Which is as it should be.

    I also find it odd that people seem extremely concerned about the moment of death, and not particularly concerned about the conditions in the months and years leading to death. If we were interested in animal welfare, rather than taking jabs at religion, that would seem more important.


  • #85
    barry181091
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭barry181091


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Then you may be interested to read a study carried out in Hanover University quite few years back, that compared captive bolt slaughter to Islamic slaughter - they implanted electrodes in cows heads, let them heal, then hooked up to an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) before slaughtering them.




    I find it odd that people who have zero experience of animal slaughter are able to paint a picture of kosher or halal slaughter as something akin to hacking their heads off with a rusty machete, whereas captive bolt is portrayed along the lines of it being a sunny day, with the Babybel laughing cow practically running towards the slaughterhouse. The fact is, while neither are pretty, both, when done by someone skilled at the task, are as pain free as possible. Which is as it should be.

    I also find it odd that people seem extremely concerned about the moment of death, and not particularly concerned about the conditions in the months and years leading to death. If we were interested in animal welfare, rather than taking jabs at religion, that would seem more important.

    I am confused (Sorry if totally ignorant :o). How would the animal not feel pain the first three seconds? I am pretty sure if someone did it to my neck I would instantly feel pain :confused:

    Not trying to bait you, serious question! Maybe its just down to animal physiology.


  • #86
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    barry181091 wrote: »
    I am confused (Sorry if totally ignorant :o). How would the animal not feel pain the first three seconds? I am pretty sure if someone did it to my neck I would instantly feel pain :confused:

    Not trying to bait you, serious question! Maybe its just down to animal physiology.


    I'm not a doctor (or a vet), but I would presume that when the carotid artery and jugular veins are severed, there is a massive loss of blood pressure and unconsciousness with seconds. There is no pain because the organ that perceives pain is being starved of oxygen.


  • #87
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not what you were saying a few posts back....

    I meant I totally agreed with the above poster about finding both abhorrent, I probably should have worded that clearer.


  • #88
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Then you may be interested to read a study carried out in Hanover University quite few years back, that compared captive bolt slaughter to Islamic slaughter - they implanted electrodes in cows heads, let them heal, then hooked up to an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) before slaughtering them.




    I find it odd that people who have zero experience of animal slaughter are able to paint a picture of kosher or halal slaughter as something akin to hacking their heads off with a rusty machete, whereas captive bolt is portrayed along the lines of it being a sunny day, with the Babybel laughing cow practically running towards the slaughterhouse. The fact is, while neither are pretty, both, when done by someone skilled at the task, are as pain free as possible. Which is as it should be.

    I also find it odd that people seem extremely concerned about the moment of death, and not particularly concerned about the conditions in the months and years leading to death. If we were interested in animal welfare, rather than taking jabs at religion, that would seem more important.

    That is quite an interesting experiment and I'm certainly going to research that particular experiment more.


  • #89
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    People can argue any point they want but I worry about all slaughter being cruel. I find meat tasty and while thats part of the problem I am still trying to atone in some way for being an Omnivore by at least acknowledging the moral dilemma here. Nobody is going to convnice me that the Halal Hannibal Lector, sharp knife method is less cruel than a bolt to the centre of brain activity


  • #90
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    I find it odd that people who have zero experience of animal slaughter are able to paint a picture of kosher or halal slaughter as something akin to hacking their heads off with a rusty machete, whereas captive bolt is portrayed along the lines of it being a sunny day, with the Babybel laughing cow practically running towards the slaughterhouse. The fact is, while neither are pretty, both, when done by someone skilled at the task, are as pain free as possible. Which is as it should be.

    I also find it odd that people seem extremely concerned about the moment of death, and not particularly concerned about the conditions in the months and years leading to death. If we were interested in animal welfare, rather than taking jabs at religion, that would seem more important.

    I do believe people need to be more educated on the matter which is why I have witnessed slaughtering before, both religious and non religious. The problem is Halal and Kosher,in my experience of it are not done by skilled people in this country and when it is, depending on your sources it still causes more pain.


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  • #91
    Lau2976
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    I find it odd that people who have zero experience of animal slaughter are able to paint a picture of kosher or halal slaughter as something akin to hacking their heads off with a rusty machete, whereas captive bolt is portrayed along the lines of it being a sunny day, with the Babybel laughing cow practically running towards the slaughterhouse. The fact is, while neither are pretty, both, when done by someone skilled at the task, are as pain free as possible. Which is as it should be.

    I also find it odd that people seem extremely concerned about the moment of death, and not particularly concerned about the conditions in the months and years leading to death. If we were interested in animal welfare, rather than taking jabs at religion, that would seem more important.

    I do believe people need to be more educated on the matter which is why I have witnessed slaughtering before, both religious and non religious. The problem is Halal and Kosher,in my experience of it are not done by skilled people in this country and when it is, depending on your sources it still causes more pain.

    And I agree, which is why I promote veganism :)


This discussion has been closed.
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