Halal meat

ceadaoin. · 14-11-2014 02:13AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

I disagree. I was vegan for a number of years but lapsed because of a health issue. I personally feel guilty for eating meat but the least I can do is try my hardest to ensure the meat I'm eating came from an animal who's suffering was as minimal as possible

I feel guilty too. I always buy free range eggs and try to buy free range chicken and grass fed beef whenever possible. At least those animals possibly had a better quality of life. The killing of the animals seems pretty horrific either way to me and I try not to think about it.

Karl Stein · 14-11-2014 02:16AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

About the type of food I prefer?

No. I think you're lying about your rigorous avoiding of halal/kosher meat.

You eat meat. You don't have a problem with animals being killed for you to eat.

Lapin · 14-11-2014 02:16AM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Do you get Indian takeout? Chances are it's halal.

Go to Subway in Ballsbridge? It's halal.

Go to a Kebab shop? Probably halal.

Exactly

Meat is meat.

And the vast majority of us love our meat.

At least you know where you stand with a dead animal burger.

I don't care if my steak has been hacked to smithereens by Muslims, Jews, or Holy Marys as long as I'm not hungry.

Food is food and to hell with any religion that gets in your way.

Ask your God to come up with a new, hot, and seedless mustard that burns the back of my tonsils like never before and I'll give you the best bacon sandwich ever known.

Fuck Halal, Kosher, and not being allowed to eat a rasher on Good Friday.

Who owns your life ?

lanos · 14-11-2014 02:42AM

Students be aware
Eden restaurant in University of Limerick serves Halal

https://www.facebook.com/ULInternational/posts/577201768971300

Smiles35 · 14-11-2014 02:54AM

Saw an eskimo on tv and he had a handy way to dispach a raindeer from his herd to eat. Went into the spinal cord near the neck and the animal seemed to have a peacefull departure.

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 10:07AM

Karl Stein wrote: »

No. I think you're lying about your rigorous avoiding of halal/kosher meat.

You eat meat. You don't have a problem with animals being killed for you to eat.

It's hardly "rigorous" as I mentioned above I was vegan until recently this year, I'm used to being mindful
If what I eat and still avoid diary. I'm used to asking what's in food and tend not to eat out. It seemed pointless going to order a bowl of chips as I salads in places are often pre-tossed with dressing.

And even if I wasn't, I mainly eat pork when I eat meat, I've had beef once, at home, since reverting to being an omnivore and chicken wouldn't be much more ( I find it too dry! Bleh). I also tend not to eat out because it's a HEALTH issue. A greasy battered sausage is not what the dr ordered!

Personally I do, and I am looking into alternatives to allow me to return to veganism. But I'm not planning on being a martyr for the cause! And until such a time where I can return to veganism and not get extremely illI will be forced to ignore my guilt and eat meat.

If I wanted to pretend to be morally superior, or for whatever others reason you think I'm lying for, I would have lied and said I was still vegan.

eire-kp · 14-11-2014 10:43AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I feel guilty too. I always buy free range eggs and try to buy free range chicken and grass fed beef whenever possible. At least those animals possibly had a better quality of life. The killing of the animals seems pretty horrific either way to me and I try not to think about it.

Having grown up on a farm and often visited slaughterhouses/meat factories which killed the conventional way such as stunning or a captive bolt. I also seen the Halal method overseas. strung up, throat slit and left to bleed out.

I know which I choose for my stock. A good comment above about grass fed stock, 95% of Irish farmers take great care of their livestock, in fact I know most could be accused of becoming too attached to them e.g. keeping an old favourite ewe when she is long past the stage of rearing a pair of lambs without assistance.
Compared to farming overseas where most animals are just seen as a number and a profit margin.

Links to UK factfiles (No pictures or videos, but really for anyone to have an opinion on the methods they should look at some Youtube video clips)
http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/factfile
http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter

Egginacup · 14-11-2014 10:45AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

I wasn't really 100% sure where to post this so if its suited better somewhere else please move it mods

I was curious as to peoples opinion of Halal meat?

It's the exact same as non-halal meat.

CrazyRabbit · 14-11-2014 11:01AM

I had a discussion about this with a Muslim and he was saying how Kosher meat unethical because of how the 'sick Jews' slaughter the animal.

So I asked him what was different. Turns out that the only difference is where the neck is cut, either the side (dies from blood loss) or the front (suffocates to death).

I find both equally abhorrent.

UCDVet · 14-11-2014 11:06AM

Ethically - I think it's incredibly wrong to eat halal meat. For meat to be halal, it *must* come from an animal that is killed by a Muslim.

That's incredibly close minded. Imagine if I were to refuse food if a Christian had not prepared it. Or refuse to eat food that was prepared by a Muslim? What is the implication here, that non-Muslims are dirty, unclean, and not be trusted in the preparation of meat.

I'm all for respecting people religion, but this goes beyond respect. It's disrespectful to all other religions. If I were to say, 'Oh - you REALLY should try this sandwich shop - all of it's employees are atheist!' How ridiculous would that be?

I believe in freedom of religion, but halal meat creates an industry that requires zero freedom of religion. If you want the job - you MUST be Muslim.

Tokyo · 14-11-2014 11:08AM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Turns out that the only difference is where the neck is cut, either the side (dies from blood loss) or the front (suffocates to death)..

Well that's patently untrue.

"The act is performed by severing the trachea, esophagus, carotid arteries, jugular veins and vagus nerve in a swift action using an extremely sharp blade....

...this results in a rapid drop in blood pressure in the brain and loss of consciousness rendering the animal insensible to pain and to exsanguinate in a prompt and precise action."

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:08AM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I had a discussion about this with a Muslim and he was saying how Kosher meat unethical because of how the 'sick Jews' slaughter the animal.

So I asked him what was different. Turns out that the only difference is where the neck is cut, either the side (dies from blood loss) or the front (suffocates to death).

I find both equally abhorrent.

I totally agree with kosher meat, I was interested in finding out about Halal because a few places have popped up that only serve it.

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:11AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Well that's patently untrue.

"The act is performed by severing the trachea, esophagus, carotid arteries, jugular veins and vagus nerve in a swift action using an extremely sharp blade....

...this results in a rapid drop in blood pressure in the brain and loss of consciousness rendering the animal insensible to pain and to exsanguinate in a prompt and precise action."

It depends on what sources you take though. Kosher slaughter is often botched and the animal is left in agony for anywhere from 2-8 minutes.

And when it isn't botched it still isn't conclusively proven that they feel no pain, they just are unable to show signs of distress or moo.

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:12AM

UCDVet wrote: »

Ethically - I think it's incredibly wrong to eat halal meat. For meat to be halal, it *must* come from an animal that is killed by a Muslim.

That's incredibly close minded. Imagine if I were to refuse food if a Christian had not prepared it. Or refuse to eat food that was prepared by a Muslim? What is the implication here, that non-Muslims are dirty, unclean, and not be trusted in the preparation of meat.

I'm all for respecting people religion, but this goes beyond respect. It's disrespectful to all other religions. If I were to say, 'Oh - you REALLY should try this sandwich shop - all of it's employees are atheist!' How ridiculous would that be?

I believe in freedom of religion, but halal meat creates an industry that requires zero freedom of religion. If you want the job - you MUST be Muslim.

That is another issue when food is prepared to fit to religious specifications.

UCDVet · 14-11-2014 11:18AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

That is another issue when food is prepared to fit to religious specifications.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought that was what 'Halal' meant?

Tokyo · 14-11-2014 11:20AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

It depends on what sources you take though. Kosher slaughter is often botched and the animal is left in agony for anywhere from 2-8 minutes.

And when it isn't botched it still isn't conclusively proven that they feel no pain, they just are unable to show signs of distress or moo.

Exactly the same can be said of captive bolt, used in every slaughterhouse here.

The_Valeyard · 14-11-2014 11:21AM

is this thread going to make me hungry?

zombieHanalei · 14-11-2014 11:22AM

Never really got this outrage with Halal style execution, it's gruesome, but having worked in a meat factory for a few months a long time ago I can say that so called "humane" methods of slaughter are far from what I'd call humane.

There's a bit of a double standard in objecting to the method of slaughter on cruelty grounds while overlooking the cruelty of mass producing animals in order for us to consume their carcasses in the first place. I'm pretty sure the animal doesn't want to die be that in a humane or inhumane way; "I'm happy to consume the flesh of an animal and overlook it's right to life, but any mention of slitting it's throat and all of a sudden I care deeply about the animal"

Dial Hard · 14-11-2014 11:23AM

Lau2976 wrote: »

And even if I wasn't, I mainly eat pork when I eat meat.

If you're trying to be an ethical meat-eater, and I genuinely believe you when you say you are, you should be aware that most Irish pork is extremely intensively reared. There are a few free-range producers, and they're well worth checking out if you're actively trying to be an ethical omnivore.

I love meat, but I feel very strongly about the way my food is treated before it gets to my plate. Not all meat is created equal.

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:47AM

Dial Hard wrote: »

If you're trying to be an ethical meat-eater, and I genuinely believe you when you say you are, you should be aware that most Irish pork is extremely intensively reared. There are a few free-range producers, and they're well worth checking out if you're actively trying to be an ethical omnivore.

I love meat, but I feel very strongly about the way my food is treated before it gets to my plate. Not all meat is created equal.

I'm lucky enough to get my meat off a fully transparent farmer. But I may look in to those too

thanks

Exactly

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:52AM

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Never really got this outrage with Halal style execution, it's gruesome, but having worked in a meat factory for a few months a long time ago I can say that so called "humane" methods of slaughter are far from what I'd call humane.

There's a bit of a double standard in objecting to the method of slaughter on cruelty grounds while overlooking the cruelty of mass producing animals in order for us to consume their carcasses in the first place. I'm pretty sure the animal doesn't want to die be that in a humane or inhumane way; "I'm happy to consume the flesh of an animal and overlook it's right to life, but any mention of slitting it's throat and all of a sudden I care deeply about the animal"

I understand what you mean and I think a lot of people have this dangerous view of meat. As I've said I disagree with meat eating in general but at the same time if you don't disagree with meat eating I think you can disagree with how the meat is treated

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:55AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Exactly the same can be said of captive bolt, used in every slaughterhouse here.

That is true. Which is why I encourage a vegan lifestyle for people who can! But in situations where thy can't personally I think the bolt method is slightly less inhumane

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 11:58AM

UCDVet wrote: »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought that was what 'Halal' meant?

It is. Halal means that the meat is slaughtered a certain way and only prepared by Muslims. I was agreeing and saying that mainstream meat shouldn't be made to religious beliefs. There should be options to choose.

Gbear · 14-11-2014 12:08PM

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I had a discussion about this with a Muslim and he was saying how Kosher meat unethical because of how the 'sick Jews' slaughter the animal.

So I asked him what was different. Turns out that the only difference is where the neck is cut, either the side (dies from blood loss) or the front (suffocates to death).

I find both equally abhorrent.

I'd rather die of blood loss than suffocation.

I wouldn't be a fan of Islam by any stretch but I do think the hubbub over halal is a bit silly.

Ultimately, you're killing things and eating them. How you do it makes a bit of a difference but I'd argue how you make them live is more important.

Regardless, cows, pigs and even animals we like to anthropomorphise like dogs don't have a whole lot going on upstairs.

While it's not quite as trivial as squashing a fly, they're still not properly sentient.

If it's no hassle there's no harm in treating them as humanely as possible but either you think it's ok to corral them in cages or pens, kill them and eat them, or you don't. The specific details are fairly trivial.

That said, I don't agree with pandering to stupid beliefs for the sake of it either.

Lau2976 · 14-11-2014 12:36PM

Gbear wrote: »

I'd rather die of blood loss than suffocation.

I wouldn't be a fan of Islam by any stretch but I do think the hubbub over halal is a bit silly.

Ultimately, you're killing things and eating them. How you do it makes a bit of a difference but I'd argue how you make them live is more important.

Regardless, cows, pigs and even animals we like to anthropomorphise like dogs don't have a whole lot going on upstairs.

While it's not quite as trivial as squashing a fly, they're still not properly sentient.

If it's no hassle there's no harm in treating them as humanely as possible but either you think it's ok to corral them in cages or pens, kill them and eat them, or you don't. The specific details are fairly trivial.

That said, I don't agree with pandering to stupid beliefs for the sake of it either.

They are not trivial and to suggest they are ahows a complete lack of empathy towards animals.

Gbear · 14-11-2014 12:42PM

Lau2976 wrote: »

They are not trivial and to suggest they are ahows a complete lack of empathy towards animals.

And shooting them in the head, keeping them stuffed in pens and eating their flesh suggests what exactly?

DBB · 14-11-2014 12:56PM

Gbear wrote: »

Regardless, cows, pigs and even animals we like to anthropomorphise like dogs don't have a whole lot going on upstairs.

While it's not quite as trivial as squashing a fly, they're still not properly sentient.

I didn't realise they had the interweb in the 16th century! At least, based on what you've said above, I'm assuming that's where you're posting from?
Children can't feel pain either, right? Because this belief went hand-in-hand with the belief that "higher" animals aren't "properly sentient" back in the dark ages too.
There are tomes, and tomes, and tomes of research to show that these animals and at least all vertebrates are entirely, 100% sentient, and pretty clever too.
I'm shocked that anyone could truly believe otherwise, in this day and age.
It's pretty much this factor alone which gives them protection under animal welfare legislation.

Potatoeman · 14-11-2014 01:07PM

Nature is the cruelist killer. Many preditors eat their pray when they are still alive.

Dr. Lollington · 14-11-2014 01:14PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

I used to work in a chicken restaurant that served Halal chicken - the poor chicken that came into us was always very battered and bruised with broken bones and sometimes missing limbs.

I always wondered if the bruising was done after death or before death but it always looked like the chickens were battered to death!

Regular butchered chicken we used to get in for a different restaurant was always bruise and break free and they always had all their limbs so the bruising is not a thing that happens as standard.

Oh and the chicken was always full of blood - it used to take a lot of heavy duty washing to clean it all out or else it dyed the chicken pink which remained after cooking, making cooked chicken look raw!!

I would try to avoid places that serve it.

Jesus or Allah or whatever mythical character wept. I nearly got sick reading that, would you put you off chicken for life!

UCDVet · 14-11-2014 01:17PM

DBB wrote: »

I didn't realise they had the interweb in the 16th century! At least, based on what you've said above, I'm assuming that's where you're posting from?
Children can't feel pain either, right? Because this belief went hand-in-hand with the belief that "higher" animals aren't "properly sentient" back in the dark ages too.
There are tomes, and tomes, and tomes of research to show that these animals and at least all vertebrates are entirely, 100% sentient, and pretty clever too.
I'm shocked that anyone could truly believe otherwise, in this day and age.
It's pretty much this factor alone which gives them protection under animal welfare legislation.

If you take the textbook definition of sentient (able to perceive or feel things), then plants are sentient too. Even if it is mostly in very basic ways. There are some examples of more complex perception though, like this:

Biologist Susan Dudley studied a group of Pale Jewelweed (Impatiens pallida) plants. Her findings—published in the American Journal of Botany—show that these flowering plants use less energy to grow roots when they are surrounded by relatives (plants that share similar genes). However, when they are amongst plants that are unrelated, their roots will grow as fast as possible. This discovery shows that plants are capable of kin recognition; meaning they are able to tell the difference between related and unrelated plants, and adjust their social behavior accordingly.

Halal meat

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