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Is feminism a dirty word?
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dark crystal wrote: »Oh, I wasn't saying it didn't exist, but my post had more to do with someone making a sweeping and negative generalisation about all feminists hating and disrespecting men and wanting to cut off all their rights and my point was that I had no experience of any woman I know feeling that way or any female boardsies posting anything resembling those sentiments, that I'm aware of.
I've never seen anyone say "all". However, "most" would be reasonable, or "most of the active ones" as in active in terms of lobbying.Just getting a wee bit tired of the feminist bashing that pervades this forum on an almost continuous basis. It's become like a sport for some at this stage.
Do people not have the right to oppose a political ideology which is constantly in the news at the moment?
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hatrickpatrick wrote: »I've never seen anyone say "all". However, "most" would be reasonable, or "most of the active ones" as in active in terms of lobbying.
No, 'most' wouldn't be reasonable at all. What lobbying, in particular, do you find is perpetuating the man hating agenda? Whatever it is, I don't find much of it has worked on female Boards posters.Do people not have the right to oppose a political ideology which is constantly in the news at the moment?
Is it constantly in the news? Who makes these laws that disadvantage men? Are females all to blame?
You have the right to oppose whatever you like - it's the constant misrepresantation of feminism on here and the negative hyperbole that surrounds women's issues that sticks in the craw a little.
Would you not concede there's much more woman bashing here on Boards than man bashing? Would you say many female posters here belittle men's issues in the same way women's issues are constantly hailed as a stick to beat men with?0 -
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Again DC, it's just some people buying wholesale into the US based gender war online bullshít. Ivory tower "feminists" on one side, Angry "MRA(PUA)" on the other. The rest of us left asking WTF?
I've seen both in evidence, though the Ivory tower "we're living in a rape culture and it's men's fault!!!" eejits are a tiny minority on Boards and usually bugger off when they don't get their way or echo chamber. The hardline MRA/PUA types are by far the majority and have replaced the "get back in the kitchen" guff with more insidious stuff gleaned elsewhere and get much more of an echo chamber going because there's simply more of them. NOt many, but enough to get some traction. Both should be laughed at not engaged.
It's a bloody virus at the moment. Both sides parroting what they read on whatever bowels of Reddit they subscribe to. It's also a very recent thing. I guarantee precious few would even know what a "social justice warrior" was a year ago. Imported ire for the easily led.
Yeah, I don't even know why I bother any more, tbh. I see certain threads cropping up here all too frequently and I know exactly what the agenda is behind them and that engaging in a discussion is pointless, because it's not a meaningful debate they're after, it's a stone throwing exercise, pure and simple.
I still get sucked in now and then, though. What's that adage about the definition of insanity...?
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Worse for me is that it's a received belief based on a tiny number of web/keyboard/victim warriors living in another culture and they're a subculture of that and regurgitated near verbatim.dark crystal wrote: »Yeah, I don't even know why I bother any more, tbh. I see certain threads cropping up here all too frequently and I know exactly what the agenda is behind them and that engaging in a discussion is pointless, because it's not a meaningful debate they're after, it's a stone throwing exercise, pure and simple.
You're a nutter?What's that adage about the definition of insanity...?
:pac: Meh, welcome to the club... Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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dark crystal wrote: »No, 'most' wouldn't be reasonable at all. What lobbying, in particular, do you find is perpetuating the man hating agenda? Whatever it is, I don't find much of it has worked on female Boards posters.
Why the obsession over Boards?
I'm not confining my observations to Boards but society in general. Boards is lacking in extreme feminists, the media and political system are not. No offense to Boards or any of its staff, but personally I feel the latter are somewhat more consequential than Boards' demographics in determining government policy and social norms.
Is it constantly in the news?
It has been lately, yes.Who makes these laws that disadvantage men? Are females all to blame?
Why do you use the word "females"? Feminism is a political agenda, one does not have to be a woman to support it or implement its policies any more than one has to be a man to support the MRM, anti circumcision, etc, or one has to be Palestinian to support a two state solution..... etc.You have the right to oppose whatever you like - it's the constant misrepresantation of feminism on here and the negative hyperbole that surrounds women's issues that sticks in the craw a little.
How, in your opinion, is feminism misrepresented, and what kind of hyperbole are you referring to? The most recent thread attacks a feminist writer who suggested that sexist discrimination in the justice system should be encouraged, for instance. Is this misrepresentation or hyberbolic?Would you not concede there's much more woman bashing here on Boards than man bashing?
Define woman bashing? Attacking feminism =/= attacking women.Would you say many female posters here belittle men's issues in the same way women's issues are constantly hailed as a stick to beat men with?
Again, can you give me one or two examples of how womens' issues are "hailed as a stick to beat men with"? (In all honesty I'm not actually even sure what you mean by this so can't really respond either way without clarification)0 -
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It's a general tonal thing HP and I'm not suggesting you do it, but just how it generally comes across and is getting more common. EG all feminism is the same is a meme. As is the use of even simple words like "female" and "male" when 5 years ago we'd be more likely to write "women" and "men"(it's slightly dehumanising in a way). Terms like Social justice wrrior, White Knights, that sorta thing. And that's just on the MRA side. The US 3rd wave feminism imports(which seem to have been around for longer) tend to buzzword patriarchy, rape culture, trigger warnings, paygap. Both often throw the words misogyny and misandry around like confetti at a wedding. Both tend overwhelmingly to point more at US culture and statistics rather than local. So you'll read 1 in 4, 75% of divorces are brought by women, 50% divorce rate all that kinda thing. Stats that are either BS, like the 1 in 4 one, or BS mixed with not applicable locally like the divorce stats. Kinda like watching CSI and believing that's how the Guards operate.hatrickpatrick wrote: »Wibbs out of curiosity, which MRA types and arguments are you referring to here?
Don't get me wrong HP, there are inequities in local gender politics, like access to abortion, or access to ones kids, the growing disparity in education and access to health and they should be looked at and debated, I'd just prefer if it was more a local dialogue. Sure the wider world may show up trends that will come down the line, but they also may not. Even in the US there are different subcultures with very different dovirce rates for example. The 50% figure is most often to be found among college educated couples.Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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It's a general tonal thing HP and I'm not suggesting you do it,
I never thought you were, until you just said that #YesMinisterbut just how it generally comes across and is getting more common. EG all feminism is the same is a meme. As is the use of even simple words like "female" and "male" when 5 years ago we'd be more likely to write "women" and "men"(it's slightly dehumanising in a way). Terms like Social justice wrrior, White Knights, that sorta thing. And that's just on the MRA side. The US 3rd wave feminism imports(which seem to have been around for longer) tend to buzzword patriarchy, rape culture, trigger warnings, paygap. Both often throw the words misogyny and misandry around like confetti at a wedding. Both tend overwhelmingly to point more at US culture and statistics rather than local. So you'll read 1 in 4, 75% of divorces are brought by women, 50% divorce rate all that kinda thing. Stats that are either BS, like the 1 in 4 one, or BS mixed with not applicable locally like the divorce stats. Kinda like watching CSI and believing that's how the Guards operate.
Don't get me wrong HP, there are inequities in local gender politics, like access to abortion, or access to ones kids, the growing disparity in education and access to health and they should be looked at and debated, I'd just prefer if it was more a local dialogue. Sure the wider world may show up trends that will come down the line, but they also may not. Even in the US there are different subcultures with very different dovirce rates for example. The 50% figure is most often to be found among college educated couples.
The only part of this I'd disagree with is your (apparent?) dismissal of the "SJW" label - in my view, and this is purely my view, these are not feminists at all but a particularly insidious brand of authoritarians who seem to genuinely want to substitute one massively unfair social hierarchy for an equally unfair social hierarchy, as well as dictate what speech is acceptable and dictate even what opinions one is "allowed" to hold. I have a very serious problem with these types and in my view anyone who really cares about progress, equality, and freedom should as well.
Of course, many feminists despise this particular group as much as anyone, and get particularly pissed off at how they attempt to co-opt the feminist label for their in many cases highly anti feminist agenda. I also suspect that like the Westboro Baptist Church, a large number of those who spout that BS don't actually believe it at all but are trolls deliberately stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble. The SJW manifesto often appears to be deliberately crafted to cause as much havoc as possible in terms of creating conflict and drama both online and off, hence I suspect a lot of it is in fact driven by pranksters such as Anonymous and 4channers. We already know that things like #BanFathersDay were hoaxes perpetrated for that exact reason - tip of the iceberg if you ask me.0 -
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Hahaha yea me saying that is kinda like saying "please don't be offended but...".hatrickpatrick wrote: »I never thought you were, until you just said that #YesMinister But no I genuinely wasn't thinking of yourself HP.
Well I mentioned the SJW word as another example of the imported gender war meme, rather than saying the type doesn't exist.The only part of this I'd disagree with is your (apparent?) dismissal of the "SJW" label - in my view, and this is purely my view, these are not feminists at all but a particularly insidious brand of authoritarians who seem to genuinely want to substitute one massively unfair social hierarchy for an equally unfair social hierarchy, as well as dictate what speech is acceptable and dictate even what opinions one is "allowed" to hold. I have a very serious problem with these types and in my view anyone who really cares about progress, equality, and freedom should as well.
I would broadly agree that they do and they're just as insidious as your online and offline misandrists/misogynists, though like the latter tend to be much more vocal online. And there are a number of them who are paid up professional keyboard warriors and victims. Great clickbait. The Daily Mail model(and ranged against some of these gombeens the Mail is a bastion of measured opinion).
I would also agree that they have more than the sniff of authoritarian to them. They're often more insidious too as they appear on first glance to be so reasonable and in love with "diversity"(a big buzzword for the type). Of course it's a "diversity" where they decide what is included and what is included. Some US universities take these gobshítes and their ideas to extremes that would appear too much to take in a Moliere farce.Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.
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