Is feminism a dirty word?

One eyed Jack · 19-10-2014 02:31PM

Lyger wrote: »

It's very nice of you to keep quoting people you agree with to tell them that their post is good. What's handy too is, there's a "thumbs-up" button at the bottom of every post, which conveys this also - might be something you'd find useful as well.

Great post!

Sorry, sorry, couldn't resist

Lyger · 19-10-2014 02:32PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Great post!

Thank you. I like to help people.

Pawwed Rig · 19-10-2014 02:47PM

Lyger wrote: »

Oh absolutely - this is why I don't support banning of the burqa. Even though I don't like it, banning of a garment is going too far.
And western women can often feel "obliged" to wear these crazy high heels that will surely only cause back/foot trouble down the line!

Funnily enough I have no issue with banning the burka as I believe in a integration approach to immigration rather than the multicultural approach.

Lyger wrote: »

However I don't think the poster I quoted was coming at it from that perspective.

That is probably true unfortunately

Lyger wrote: »

And I am still critical of Saudi Arabia's treatment of women and always will be. The stuff about Saudi women living like royalty and so on too, only applies to RICH Saudi women.

And lets be honest here, who isn't critical of Saudi's treatment of women. It strays so far against the cultural norms of our society that it is nearly alien. That said the whole out look of women throwing off the yoke of a patriarchal society exactly matches your point. It was only the RICH men (and women) in Ireland who had any sort of say or power pre the women's movement yet increasingly feminism tries to tell us that all men had these privileges.

hatrickpatrick · 19-10-2014 03:09PM

Lyger wrote: »

some issues affect only one gender, male or female, so that's why it just has to be the case sometimes that there are causes and issues only coming from the perspective of one gender;

There are almost none, and most of the high-vis feminist campaigns focusing on one gender are discriminatory because they are gendering a non-gendered issue. Again, the expression "violence against women" is probably the most obvious and in my view the most utterly vile example.

19-10-2014 03:13PM

paddy1990 wrote: »

OWNED

Good post.

Banned

Not so good post.

AndreaCollins · 19-10-2014 03:28PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

lol.

You do realize that what you have just said with the above is that in Post #636 you refused to answer a question I put to you because of what I later went on to say in Post #649.

Mystic Meg eat your heart out

Oh and I wasn't the only user who asked you the question and so even if what you posted made sense (it doesn't) then that would only be reasoning for not answering me. What's your excuse for not answering the other user?

Oh I remember: you don't want the thread to become about you.

Well, guess what. It wouldn't need to. You thought it pertinent enough to the discussion to identify yourself as a male feminist on the thread in four different posts and so you'll have to excuse me if I find it rather convenient for you to believe that posting the reasons which you feel the need to identify a male feminist are not.

How about I reframe the question for you (and throw in a few others):

What is it about the term 'Male Feminist' that says more about a man's views on inequality, than just declaring himself an Egalitarian would?

Why do you think a man would go out of his way to declare himself as a 'Male Feminist, yet not also as an MRA?

I mean, I know some MRAs are "nuts" and all but surely that same guy would know that some feminists are nuts too (S.C.U.M., the 'all sex is rape' crowd etc) and so why would a guy refuse to identify as an MRA as a result of the extremists therein but yet happily call himself a male feminist, ignoring the wackos in their ranks. Seems kinda odd to me.

Excellent post.

I think you nailed the "male feminist" angle down. It seems odd to me as well.

AndreaCollins · 19-10-2014 03:30PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There are almost none, and most of the high-vis feminist campaigns focusing on one gender are discriminatory because they are gendering a non-gendered issue. Again, the expression "violence against women" is probably the most obvious and in my view the most utterly vile example.

Agreed. A lot of the feminist campaigns are offensive to some men on the basis of how discriminatory they are. It's a shame that some feminists just follow feminism blindly.

BrokenHero · 19-10-2014 03:34PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

And lets be honest here, who isn't critical of Saudis treatment of women.

Exactly.

Reminds me of the following recent feminist war cry in The Guardian for Jennifer Lawrence with the tag line:

"Sorry she’s not sorry, but the Vanity Fair interview is a righteous, hell-yes moment for our feminist times":

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/jennifer-lawrence-naked-photo-response-vanity-fair-interview

You'd swear the world was demanding an apology from her or something and that only feminists could see that she was a victim.

The following feminist reaction to the whole icloudgate affair was the funniest of all though:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/culturehousedaily/2014/09/jennifer-lawrences-leaked-nude-photos-prove-that-women-need-to-be-more-clued-up-about-cyberspace/

hatrickpatrick · 19-10-2014 03:35PM

AndreaCollins wrote: »

Agreed. A lot of the feminist campaigns are offensive to some men on the basis of how discriminatory they are. It's a shame that some feminists just follow feminism blindly.

Precisely, and the more extreme feminists jump on it by saying "Oh, so you think hitting women is ok?" or other such straw BS, when it's blindingly obvious that what irks men is the focus on one gender, not the anti-violence.

AndreaCollins · 19-10-2014 03:40PM

BrokenHero wrote: »

Exactly.

Reminds me of the following recent feminist war cry in The Guardian for Jennifer Lawrence with the tag line:

"Sorry she’s not sorry, but the Vanity Fair interview is a righteous, hell-yes moment for our feminist times":

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/jennifer-lawrence-naked-photo-response-vanity-fair-interview

You'd swear the world was demanding an apology from her or something and that only feminists could see that she was a victim.

The following feminist reaction to the whole icloudgate affair was the funniest of all though:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/culturehousedaily/2014/09/jennifer-lawrences-leaked-nude-photos-prove-that-women-need-to-be-more-clued-up-about-cyberspace/

Good post. I wonder if these feminists realize the points you are making?

AndreaCollins · 19-10-2014 03:41PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Precisely, and the more extreme feminists jump on it by saying "Oh, so you think hitting women is ok?" or other such straw BS, when it's blindingly obvious that what irks men is the focus on one gender, not the anti-violence.

Yes, its a shame they can't understand that.

Lyger · 19-10-2014 06:35PM

Andrea, your commentary is excellent - and a million miles from inane!

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

And lets be honest here, who isn't critical of Saudi's treatment of women.

Oh I know. I only mean that just because women there are ok with less rights, doesn't lessen how atrocious things are out there if you're looking at it from an outside perspective.

Cheese Wagstaff · 19-10-2014 06:36PM

Feminism isn't a dirty word. Crevice, now that's a dirty word.

BrokenHero · 24-10-2014 08:29AM

Well, they sure don't mind getting kids to use them (dirty words) in order to spread their hate anyway:

*NSFW*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqHYzYn3WZw

KomradeBishop · 24-10-2014 08:32AM

As I said elsewhere:
"That video is produced by the for-profit FCKH8 company though, in order to sell t-shirts; it's not really representative of 'feminists', is it? "

Yurt2 · 24-10-2014 11:50AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

As I said elsewhere:
"That video is produced by the for-profit FCKH8 company though, in order to sell t-shirts; it's not really representative of 'feminists', is it? "

A hell of a lot of feminists from facebook, to twitter to tumblr are clapping like seals having seen it. I'd say its very much on the pulse. An embarrassing manifestation of what people have to listen to, delivered with the same self righteous and misplaced indignation of actual grown ups, resplendent with the debunked myths trotted out again and again. Looks, smells, walks and talks like contemporary feminism.

FullblownRose · 11-11-2014 08:17AM

I don't know how to preface this. I have very mixed feelings about it.

http://veganfeministnetwork.com/rape_in_sweden/

FullblownRose · 11-11-2014 08:20AM

BrokenHero wrote: »

Well, they sure don't mind getting kids to use them (dirty words) in order to spread their hate anyway:

*NSFW*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqHYzYn3WZw

Equal rights to swear like a drunken sailor at eight years old and be praised for it.

Earl Turner · 11-11-2014 10:11AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

I don't know how to preface this. I have very mixed feelings about it.

http://veganfeministnetwork.com/rape_in_sweden/

I would say the administrator behaved correctly. The accused, as in all rape cases, should have his identity protected until proven guilty.

And no her word is not 'evidence enough'.

smoking_kills · 11-11-2014 10:12AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

I don't know how to preface this. I have very mixed feelings about it.

http://veganfeministnetwork.com/rape_in_sweden/

Why do you have mixed feelings?

FullblownRose · 11-11-2014 10:44AM

smoking_kills wrote: »

Why do you have mixed feelings?

..because my first reaction was the same as the comment just before yours ^. I just wonder if I've missed something. I don't understand how the administrator could remove the accused from the site without knowing whether the accuser was being malicious. I haven't seen any of the ''horrible comments about rape victims'' the vegan feminist network warned of, either.

smoking_kills · 11-11-2014 11:01AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

..because my first reaction was the same as the comment just before yours ^. I just wonder if I've missed something. I don't understand how the administrator could remove the accused from the site without knowing whether the accuser was being malicious. I haven't seen any of the ''horrible comments about rape victims'' the vegan feminist network warned of, either.

I see. I don't know that Vegan feminist crowd at all.

FullblownRose · 11-11-2014 11:06AM

smoking_kills wrote: »

I see. I don't know that Vegan feminist crowd at all.

I know them through a friend. That's as close as I want to get.

(to that particular bunch, at least)

AudreyHepburn · 11-11-2014 11:22AM

It shouldn't be a dirty word but it is. It's got nothing to do with equal rights anymore, it's simply about hating men, refusing them their rights and making sure they are treated with as little respect as possible.

RobYourBuilder · 11-11-2014 11:55AM

FullblownRose wrote: »

I know them through a friend. That's as close as I want to get.

(to that particular bunch, at least)

Swedish feminists are insane.

Here are some translated snippets from Sweden's Feminist Party's(Femenist Initiative) party program:

●All weapons (including pistols) banned globally
●Defense force needs to be shut down
●All schools and kindergartens need to have a meat-free monday
●The possibility of complete removal of jail sentences needs to be investigated (this includes rapists)
●A person doesn't have to disclose their HIV to anyone (including people they sleep with)
●All homework and grading before high school have to be removed
●Unrestricted immigrationFeminist self-defense has to be taught in every primary school
●Men should be re-educated to change their consuming habits
●The law on freedom of choice should be abolished so that politicians get to decide more on people's everyday lives
●All new construction of highways to be stopped
●Genetically modified food should be completely banned
●All persons residing in Sweden, regardless of citizenship, have the right to vote
●Deportation shall be eliminated, even for very serious crimes
●Sweden should have a female pro league in ice hockey (f*ck knows what the craic is here?)
●It will be prohibited to build town shopping centers

You can find the full party program here (in Swedish):

http://feministisktinitiativ.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/For_en_feministisk_politik_2013.pdf

They got 3.1%(not 4% like the article claimed) of the vote in the recent general election.

Wibbs · 11-11-2014 12:14PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

They got 3.1%(not 4% like the article claimed) of the vote in the recent general election.

So minority of extremists get tiny minority of the vote? Hardly the end is nigh. Fire up the flares when they get 30% of the vote. Which will be never.

FullblownRose · 11-11-2014 12:15PM

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Swedish feminists are insane.

Here are some translated snippets from Sweden's Feminist Party's(Femenist Initiative) party program:

●All weapons (including pistols) banned globally
●Defense force needs to be shut down
●All schools and kindergartens need to have a meat-free monday
●The possibility of complete removal of jail sentences needs to be investigated (this includes rapists)
●A person doesn't have to disclose their HIV to anyone (including people they sleep with)
●All homework and grading before high school have to be removed
●Unrestricted immigrationFeminist self-defense has to be taught in every primary school
●Men should be re-educated to change their consuming habits
●The law on freedom of choice should be abolished so that politicians get to decide more on people's everyday lives
●All new construction of highways to be stopped
●Genetically modified food should be completely banned
●All persons residing in Sweden, regardless of citizenship, have the right to vote
●Deportation shall be eliminated, even for very serious crimes
●Sweden should have a female pro league in ice hockey (f*ck knows what the craic is here?)
●It will be prohibited to build town shopping centers

You can find the full party program here (in Swedish):

http://feministisktinitiativ.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/For_en_feministisk_politik_2013.pdf

They got 3.1%(not 4% like the article claimed) of the vote in the recent general election.

The Vegan Feminist Network (who have their location set to Cork) are a weird bunch as well. They have some weird posts and comments at times. There seems to be a lot of in-fighting. It's not just that their views are radical but they have a very strong way of getting them across, to put it politely.

Wibbs · 11-11-2014 12:19PM

Yes these are extremist fcukwits and there are a few out there. There are also some pretty daft extreme "feminist" eejits in the media, particularly the onine media, however equating them with your average feminist is like equating the Westboro Baptist morons with your average Christian.

SeanW · 11-11-2014 12:22PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes these are extremist fcukwits and there are a few out there. There are also some pretty daft extreme "feminist" eejits in the media, particularly the onine media, however equating them with your average feminist is like equating the Westboro Baptist morons with your average Christian.

The Westboro Baptist Church has not been successful in getting any legislation passed in any jurisdiction, nor does it have any influence beyond the idiots that run it/worship in it. Which consists AFAIK of two families.

Duggy747 · 11-11-2014 12:32PM

This latest incarnation from the past few years of the movement certainly treat men like the gender are dogs that need to be trained / have to train each other and point their fingers at what other women should do with their lives.

A movement that preaches equality but is so fractured in it's own movement on how to achieve it. For example, some demanding censorship of song / publications / etc and dragging their politics into every facet of life.

I know a lot of women that would declare themselves as feminist, most of them wanting pretty much what every moral person would want; Support against rape, domestic abuse, children in a supporting environment, employee rights, etc.

Within that group are a few hardliners who come out with toxic hatred towards men and women alike, most of them don't know each other but they come out with the same check-list of things on Facebook. Almost like they come off a factory assembly with default settings of college student mentality about anarchism, "revolution", and fighting the patriarchy.

Those ones equate things like wanting equal rights for everything from gay people to animals means you're a feminist whether you like it or not, that if you don't identify as one then you are intentionally part of the problem towards women.

There's ensuring equal rights for everyone as best as possible, regardless of their gender and sexual preference and then there's trying to get one up and turning it into points scoring.

Is feminism a dirty word?

Comments