New Bus Fares

dquinnan · 29-10-2014 2:11pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.

Maybe people can't to afford to top up for multiple weeks in advance. I certainly can't. Same reason I can't use the auto top up as the minimum amount is 30 quid, when it should be half that. NTA /Leap/whichever overpaid quango is in charge this week haven't a clue.

seamus · 29-10-2014 2:21pm

dublinstevie wrote: »

The transport companies love people like you,even though its blatantly obvious cash is a rip off compared to leap card you still insist on paying cash,why not cash all your coins in at the bank and top up a leap card with that money,more journeys from your jar of coins,everyone moaning and groaning because the cash fares have risen,obvious answer is get a LEAP CARD

I'm actually not moaning and groaning at all. Our public transport fares in Dublin are pretty reasonable for what we get in comparison to other capital cities.
The reason I don't just cash in all the coins is because I use it for other stuff too.

I'm moaning and groaning about the Leap card itself and how poorly it continues to be implemented.

Maybe people can't to afford to top up for multiple weeks in advance. I certainly can't. Same reason I can't use the auto top up as the minimum amount is 30 quid, when it should be half that. NTA /Leap/whichever overpaid quango is in charge this week haven't a clue.

30 quid? That's six months worth of bus fares for me.

That's mental, there are so many people who cannot afford to just have €30 randomly leave their bank account because they're watching their pennies. Another example of how poorly the leap system has been thought out.

I think what's frustrating is that leap is *almost* there as a world-class integrated ticketing system, they've just put these unnecessary blocks in the way which effectively make it impossible to get 100% penetration.

moxin · 29-10-2014 2:30pm

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Maybe if people didn't top up by amounts which will only do them for one week and topped up by a larger amount or not top up at peak times (i.e in the morning just before commute gets underway) then it wouldn't be such a problem.

I'm not a commuter, I do always make sure after my infrequent travels to have bout a tenner on my card. Its just so damn awkward and time consuming to top up the card and yet the Luas machines are so fast for this.

It would be magnificent if those type of machines were in every suburb, it would go a long way to sort out the mess until the online topup is efficient.

Celly Smunt · 29-10-2014 2:35pm

Nimr wrote: »

It's the exact same with an Oyster card.

I presumed the reason behind it was something like this:

If you top up online, there's no way for the system to contact your card(unlike your phone) and tell it to increase balance by €X amount. So you go to a Luas stop/train station/shop. Bus card readers can't download and store a list of cards to be topped up so you can't collect your top up on a bus.

When you choose auto top up, once again, you go to a Luas stop or whatever to activate it. It stores your choice on your card i.e. If balance falls below €10, top up by €20. You use it on a bus or any other card reader, it reads it and sees the balance is below €10, it tells the card to top up by €20.

It seemed logical to me. It's probably not the reason.

They have an account based system that is matched to your card when you register,the card is nothing more than something to show up your account on the bus. It could be easily implemented to do away with the activation crap. Much like a bank account and card.

B0jangles · 29-10-2014 2:42pm

Nimr wrote: »

How is Leap card crap by comparison?

It's the exact same price as a Leap card weekly cap, €27.50. In fact, if the Travel 90s are going up, it's cheaper because Leap card caps are untouched in this price hike.

It might be more value for money for non-frequent commuters compared to the Leap card daily cap of €6.90, I'll give you that.

My 10-Journey is valid for months, I can choose to use it or not use it for days or even weeks and it is still valid. A weekly capped 27.50 leap charge is not comparable at all.

Say I use my ticket twice in one day to get from Shankill to Blanchardstown and back; that'll cost me 5.50 in total, it'd be 6.90 using leap.

If I'm only going one way, it'd cost me 2.75, compared to 5.00 with leap.

They are attempting to make it appear that leap is good value by hiking up the cost of other tickets or straight-up discontinuing them.

end of the road · 29-10-2014 2:43pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

different countries with different living costs. the wages for the 3 CIE companies were never that high for the majority of staff, maybe the highest grades with overtime during the boom, but not now. the wages have come down a lot. irish rail drivers do deserve to be payed highly for the skills involved. i see you didn't have the wages for a UK rail company. tube drivers apparently earn about 43000 a year. if true, they deserve it and more.

Celly Smunt · 29-10-2014 2:44pm

OSI wrote: »

The bus cannot access your account though. Your card is a local replica of your account.

Once the bus has an internet connection it can,as in every bus in Dublin.

Celly Smunt · 29-10-2014 2:48pm

OSI wrote: »

Ever tried to use the Wifi on the buses? It's ****. What's the driver supposed to do if there's no reception? Takes long enough boarding a bus without waiting for the machine to connect to a remote server and validate your balance every single time.

There is no reason why the system cant have a dedicated connection,credit and debit card machines seem to work fine.

There's no reason also why leap card users should have to go near the driver either.With a tag on and off system.

Or maybe some sensible alternative like a top up point at the bus stop. But sure that's investment,what good does investment do...

end of the road · 29-10-2014 2:56pm

dquinnan wrote: »

Passenger numbers are down so we'll increase the fares for another consecutive year, great logic there!

They should at least freeze Leap fares for a year or two to throw hard pressed commuters a bone. They didn't raise the tax on petrol this year did they? but no problem hitting people who have no other alternative than the poxy bus.

So bloody irritating too when you see out of it drug addicts/drunks / gougers stroll on without paying a thing, while I have to search my place for coins on a Wednesday to try and gather enough cash to top up my leap for the remainder of the week.

while i agree with you, blame the severe cut in subsidy and a government who has decided that the passenger must pay a higher share.

The_Valeyard · 29-10-2014 3:02pm

Anyone know why it takes 24/48 hours for your top up to appear on the system?

MissKittenfire · 29-10-2014 3:13pm

petronius wrote: »

Bus fares (and DART and Irish Rail) should not be increasing, they should be used to encourage people to use public transport not discourage them. CIE should be more efficient and more commercially minded in some cases to make best with what revenue and subsidy they get, and actually get more passengers by being more dependable and client friendly - which they seem to have no plan or inclination to do so since their solution is always ah sure we will put in for a price hike!

This is PISSING me off right now.

I agree with your post entirely.

'''My 10-Journey is valid for months, I can choose to use it or not use it for days or even weeks and it is still valid. A weekly capped 27.50 leap charge is not comparable at all.

Say I use my ticket twice in one day to get from Shankill to Blanchardstown and back; that'll cost me 5.50 in total, it'd be 6.90 using leap.

If I'm only going one way, it'd cost me 2.75, compared to 5.00 with leap.

They are attempting to make it appear that leap is good value by hiking up the cost of other tickets or straight-up discontinuing them. '''

I have a leap card ...I have tried oyster etc. It does not actually make THAT much of a diff ...that's the annoying thing.

Also my area is not actually served well by public transport really only the 16 gets you into town. It has improved recently.

I unusually work from home. But last week I was traveling to do some work in a small publishing house. It makes such a dent in your wallet and for not a great service. The petrol is not much more.I guess if you had a car and had no parking it would make a difference. The thing is they put people off using the bus for on off journeys or a night out.

BOHSBOHS · 29-10-2014 4:09pm

wages have fallen at dublin bus???

not according to their annual reports.
The wage cost per employee has never been higher than it was 2013.

even if the total wage bill has fallen due to staff number reductions.

end of the road · 29-10-2014 4:13pm

BOHSBOHS wrote: »

wages have fallen at dublin bus???

not according to their annual reports.
The cost per employee has never been higher than it was 2013.

even if the total wage bill has fallen due to staff number reductions.

i'm sure it is. the wages have fallen

Stevek101 · 29-10-2014 4:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sure it is. the wages have fallen

Only until next summer.

Berserker · 29-10-2014 4:18pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Anyone know why it takes 24/48 hours for your top up to appear on the system?

Most likely IT related. The updates for the top ups are probably done using a batch job at night. I haven't used public transport in Dublin for a long time. Does the Leapcard cover the bus and train now or are they still separate?

BOHSBOHS · 29-10-2014 4:55pm

Are you saying the published annual reports are wrong?

where is your proof that average wages have fallen?

UCDVet · 29-10-2014 5:11pm

At some point people will wake up and realize the price is not worth it. I did. I stopped using Dublin Bus and now I smile everytime I hear about a fare increase.

Screw 'em. Stop using them.

Protests and complaints are never going to change things. You need to vote in the only way that matters, your money. If you continue to pay, you are supporting their system. And Dublin Bus does not deserve your financial support.

Scannal · 29-10-2014 5:41pm

Bus ****.

seamus · 29-10-2014 6:01pm

OSI wrote: »

The bus cannot access your account though. Your card is a local replica of your account.

Exactly. The card is just an identifier, it doesn't have to access your account.

So you scan your card, the bus makes a note and if it can't immediately charge for the journey it does so later. In fact, this already does happen, doesn't it? You can view your leap card balance online, so presumably at some point they sync the activity on the buses with a central database.

Granted, in some cases it'll mean that people will go negative and be able to travel for a while on a negative card because the bus is unaware that it is negative, but in my mind this preferable to the complicated situation we have at present. Blocking an overdrawn card is a relatively trivial thing

Baron Kurtz · 29-10-2014 6:08pm

What's with all the fumbling on here?!:)

I never fumble, so dextrous I am, and always have me few shillins' a ready for Mr or Mrs Bus Driver I do! A great lad altogether.

cloud493 · 29-10-2014 6:14pm

Am I reading it right? Only cash fares go up, leap card remains the same. Why is that?

Tarzana2 · 29-10-2014 6:21pm

My Leap fare is going down, bizarrely. Anyone who pays €2.15 one way on Dublin Bus currently will be paying €2.05 soon!

Daith · 29-10-2014 6:36pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Am I reading it right? Only cash fares go up, leap card remains the same. Why is that?

They want people to move to Leap cards.

end of the road · 29-10-2014 6:53pm

Stevek101 wrote: »

Only until next summer.

wrong. they have fallen and will probably continue to do so

end of the road · 29-10-2014 6:53pm

Scannal wrote: »

Bus ****.

boaring, grow up.

dquinnan · 29-10-2014 7:28pm

cloud493 wrote: »

Am I reading it right? Only cash fares go up, leap card remains the same. Why is that?

You're reading it wrong, Leap has (stupidly) gone up too. My fare has gone from €2.50 to €2.60 each way.

They are (rightly) increasing cash fares at a higher rate than Leap because they want more people to use Leap instead of cash.

steddyeddy · 29-10-2014 7:29pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

Hard to blame Dublin Bus, if someone was willing to give me more money every time I asked for it even though my work output was sh*t, I'd keep chancing my arm.

This. We already subsidise them through taxes. Not as bad as a car isn't good enough for a public service.

steddyeddy · 29-10-2014 7:38pm

I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say the buses I got in Kenya were more reliable. I was waiting on the N11 (the main road going towards the country's capital) for an hour the other day. That's not god enough for a public service. We really have to expect more from our taxes.

Highflyer13 · 29-10-2014 10:11pm

UCDVet wrote: »

At some point people will wake up and realize the price is not worth it. I did. I stopped using Dublin Bus and now I smile everytime I hear about a fare increase.

Screw 'em. Stop using them.

Protests and complaints are never going to change things. You need to vote in the only way that matters, your money. If you continue to pay, you are supporting their system. And Dublin Bus does not deserve your financial support.

Sure what else can we use? No parking in Dublin city centre and Dublin Bus offer a far better commuter service than Irish Rail which says a lot about Irish Rail. They have us by the balls and they know it.

herisson · 29-10-2014 10:12pm

Tarzana2 wrote: »

My Leap fare is going down, bizarrely. Anyone who pays €2.15 one way on Dublin Bus currently will be paying €2.05 soon!

My fare has gone up to €2.05 though.

Specialun · 29-10-2014 10:20pm

Is the smell of sweaty balls included in the price

Cantremember · 29-10-2014 10:25pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Bus Eireann average wage: €50,623
Irish Rail average wage: €53,108
Dublin Bus average wage: €52,656

Aircoach : €37.713
Lothian Scotland: €42,765
First Manchester: €30,470

Interesting. Cost of living comparison now please.

cloud493 · 29-10-2014 10:33pm

I wouldn't mind paying extra for the bus if it wasn't so rubbish. Where I'm from in england isn't a capital city by a long shot, and the bus service was much better.

seamus · 29-10-2014 10:41pm

Cantremember wrote: »

Interesting. Cost of living comparison now please.

I would also be very interested to know if they're comparing like-with-like. i.e. does the aircoach figure include all of the top-level staff too?

Tarzana2 · 29-10-2014 10:53pm

Cantremember wrote: »

Interesting. Cost of living comparison now please.

Scotland: way lower than Ireland
Northern England: way lower than Ireland

Even in urban areas for both of the above.

end of the road · 29-10-2014 11:01pm

cloud493 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying extra for the bus if it wasn't so rubbish. Where I'm from in england isn't a capital city by a long shot, and the bus service was much better.

i bet it was payed for in full/subsidized in full by the local council?

jackofalltrades · 29-10-2014 11:21pm

OSI wrote: »

So every bus stop now needs dedicated power and internet connection. Should be easy enough to do right :pac:

There already are a lot of bus stops with power and an internet connection, thanks to the RTPI system.

I think at the very least there should be top-up points at several locations in the city centre and at other busy bus stops.

Having to go to a Luas/Dart station to activate a top-up, so that you can use it on a bus is daft.

cloud493 · 29-10-2014 11:42pm

end of the road wrote: »

i bet it was payed for in full/subsidized in full by the local council?

Far as I'm aware the company is private.

Dravokivich · 30-10-2014 12:20am

jackofalltrades wrote: »

There already are a lot of bus stops with power and an internet connection, thanks to the RTPI system.

I think at the very least there should be top-up points at several locations in the city centre and at other busy bus stops.

Having to go to a Luas/Dart station to activate a top-up, so that you can use it on a bus is daft.

Jervis, Abbey St and Stephens Green aren't city centre any more?

The issue isn't with "Activating" the topup, it's with receiving it and the machines currently used by Dublin Bus aren't capable of allowing a leap card to so. Word is they are due to start getting new machines next year, so I expect they should be able to with them. However the Auto Topup feature may make the need for it redundant.

Celly Smunt wrote: »

There is no reason why the system cant have a dedicated connection,credit and debit card machines seem to work fine.

There's no reason also why leap card users should have to go near the driver either.With a tag on and off system.

Or maybe some sensible alternative like a top up point at the bus stop. But sure that's investment,what good does investment do...

Tag on/off can't really be used on the bus as that validator generally doesn't know where it is.

end of the road · 30-10-2014 12:41am

cloud493 wrote: »

Far as I'm aware the company is private.

they would be, but that doesn't mean they can't or don't receive a subsidy.

cloud493 · 30-10-2014 12:45am

Well I don't know, a look at their website doesn't look like they do, but who knows.

jackofalltrades · 30-10-2014 9:54am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Jervis, Abbey St and Stephens Green aren't city centre any more?

Three locations that are already busy with Luas customers.
Having machines around Dame street, College Green and other busy bus stop locations is what's needed

The issue isn't with "Activating" the topup, it's with receiving it and the machines currently used by Dublin Bus aren't capable of allowing a leap card to so. Word is they are due to start getting new machines next year, so I expect they should be able to with them.

It'll be great if they do, but it should have been something they should have done from the start.

Dravokivich · 30-10-2014 10:16am

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Three locations that are already busy with Luas customers.
Having machines around Dame street, College Green and other busy bus stop locations is what's needed

It'll be great if they do, but it should have been something they should have done from the start.

Usually only on the one side because people tend to bunch up around the TVMs on the side they are travelling from.

themissymoo · 30-10-2014 10:32am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Tag on/off can't really be used on the bus as that validator generally doesn't know where it is.

Why can't they use the same tag off system as the Luas? You could tag on on the bus, and tag off at the bus stop. It would possibly cost a lot to implement (especially at busy stops like Dame Street and Eden Quay, where you'd really need a few of them due to the sheer volume of people at rush hour), but it could work.

To whoever said you should vote with your money, as I student I can't afford to not take the bus. I've to get two buses to college and two buses home. I also need to get a bus to get to work (when I'm called in - I've a zero hours contract). I can't afford to take however-many driving lessons at the moment. I've already got to borrow for my bus fare as it is!

I just saw on Twitter someone saying that with student fares, the weekly cap is €20 even though the five day rambler is €21.50? That's the way it looked when I read the new fares as well anyway. If that's true, it's crazy.

Dravokivich · 30-10-2014 11:03am

themissymoo wrote: »

Why can't they use the same tag off system as the Luas? You could tag on on the bus, and tag off at the bus stop. It would possibly cost a lot to implement (especially at busy stops like Dame Street and Eden Quay, where you'd really need a few of them due to the sheer volume of people at rush hour), but it could work.

As I said, the validator on the bus doesn't generally know where it is. To do Tag On/Tag off, the destination needs to know the origin to calculate any rebates you should receive.

themissymoo · 30-10-2014 11:37am

Dravokivich wrote: »

As I said, the validator on the bus doesn't generally know where it is. To do Tag On/Tag off, the destination needs to know the origin to calculate any rebates you should receive.

Ah right, I getcha now!

Chairman Meow · 30-10-2014 11:54am

Bus fares have incresed year on year now since like, 2006? Yet the service is as bad as it was back then. The onyl 'improvement' i see is the electronic bus timetables which seem most of the time, to make **** up as they go along. '3mins....2mins...7mins, no wait, 1min, no hang on, 25mins'
They have some ****ing nerve upping fares again.

LuckyLloyd · 30-10-2014 1:16pm

Chairman Meow wrote: »

Bus fares have incresed year on year now since like, 2006? Yet the service is as bad as it was back then. The onyl 'improvement' i see is the electronic bus timetables which seem most of the time, to make **** up as they go along. '3mins....2mins...7mins, no wait, 1min, no hang on, 25mins'
They have some ****ing nerve upping fares again.

The service is vastly improved in terms of reliability and accessibility compared to what was on offer in 2006. They make inexorable strides year on year. The RTPI is very reliable in my experience. Ironically, it is least effective the closer you are to the actual outbound terminus but the old timetable method is a reliable indicator in such cases anyway.

For sure, there will be some schedule deviations on a daily basis but as someone who gets four or five individual bus journeys a day five days a week (with travel on weekends) they are a rare occurence in my experience.

Anita Blow · 30-10-2014 1:45pm

I'm as big a critic as the next person of DB, but where the hell does this idea come from that RTPI is completely unreliable? I only ever hear this story on boards; never from anyone I know using the bus regularly. RTPI is very reliable in my experience, and I've only ever experienced having to wait 2-3 extra minutes the odd time during heavy traffic on Dame St. when the RTPI says the bus is arriving now.

On topic: The fare rise is bollox, & in general DB service is quite poor in terms of route choice & length. The fact that the 41c takes 55 mins to get into town from Swords, while the Swords Express can get in there in 20 minutes is testament to that. No wonder they're haemorrhaging customers with all these unrealistic route amalgamations. Was the subvention even cut in the budget this year?

Peregrine · 30-10-2014 1:57pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Say I use my ticket twice in one day to get from Shankill to Blanchardstown and back; that'll cost me 5.50 in total, it'd be 6.90 using leap

Dublin Bus 5 day Rambler: €27.50

27.50/5 = €5.50

So, for the same price as your 2 Travel 90 journeys, Leap card offers unlimited DB travel for a day.

What was that you were saying about Leap card being crap by comparison?

New Bus Fares

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