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Gillian Relf (69) wishes she aborted her downs syndrome son (47)

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13

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    #62
    Its Only Ray Parlour
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Its Only Ray Parlour


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Then why in the UK is the abortion rate for women pregnant with an unborn child with DS at 90%?

    It's because 90% of those women have the common sense not to gamble with their child's health because that's all you're doing when you bring them into this world. It's difficult to detect the severity of DS in the womb. Why gamble with severe DS or slight DS?

    Gambling with your child's health is selfish and immoral. I would definitely abort and I would encourage my friends to abort, too.

    If a randomer wants to keep their DS child, then that their problem, just as long as they don't berate me for aborting mine.


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    #63
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    there is a difference between putting down a human being, and intervening before the human being happens.


    I would have an abortion in a heart beat if I found out early on that I was pregnant with a seriously unwell fetus.

    So abortion isn't ending a human life?

    We all 'happened' when our mothers became pregnant.


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    #64
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So abortion isn't ending a human life?

    We all 'happened' when our mothers became pregnant.


    says you.


    and since that is your opinion, I promise not to make you have an abortion. how does that sound?


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    #65
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »
    It's because 90% of those women have the common sense not to gamble with their child's health because that's all you're doing when you bring them into this world. It's difficult to detect the severity of DS in the womb. Why gamble with severe DS or slight DS?

    Gambling with your child's health is selfish and immoral. I would definitely abort and I would encourage my friends to abort, too.

    If a randomer wants to keep their DS child, then that their problem, just as long as they don't berate me for aborting mine.

    It is not their problem.

    The only problem is how some people view other people as being a problem.

    Your statement that I highlighted is silly. One could make a case for every unborn child to be aborted given life itself is a gamble.
    A child could be fine and get brain damaged at birth.
    So yes abort and tell your friends to as well, given life itself is a gamble.


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    #66
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    says you.


    and since that is your opinion, I promise not to make you have an abortion. how does that sound?


    Well I am happy my mother was pro-life and so my life in her womb was never at risk due to her social views.


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    #67
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is not their problem.

    The only problem is how some people view other people as being a problem.

    Your statement that I highlighted is silly. One could make a case for every unborn child to be aborted given life itself is a gamble.
    A child could be fine and get brain damaged at birth.
    So yes abort and tell your friends to as well, given life itself is a gamble.

    Luckily most babies are born healthy and we have tests now for conditions like DS so if a couple makes that choice its really none of your business. You have to remember this woman has been caring for her son for 47 years, she's an elderly woman at a stage in her life when she should be taking it easy and instead she is raising an overgrown baby. He's not exactly small either is he? Imagine how hard that must be at her age caring for his needs as well as her own. She can't help how she feels and she has no reason to be ashamed for feeling that way. She's only human.


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    #68
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is not their problem.

    The only problem is how some people view other people as being a problem.

    Your statement that I highlighted is silly. One could make a case for every unborn child to be aborted given life itself is a gamble.
    A child could be fine and get brain damaged at birth.
    So yes abort and tell your friends to as well, given life itself is a gamble.

    Of course life is a gamble, that doesn't mean anyone has the right to judge a mother who doesn't want to raise a disabled child.


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    #69
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I am happy my mother was pro-life and so my life in her womb was never at risk due to her social views.


    Well I'm not happy that due to pro-life dogma my life can be at risk NOW because of your social views.

    am I doing this right?


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    #70
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I am happy my mother was pro-life and so my life in her womb was never at risk due to her social views.

    If she's made a different choice you'd be none the wiser anyway. Stupid argument. If your parents had sex a hour earlier or later or in a different position or at a different tempo the sperm that made you would probably not have been the one to reach the egg. Its pure luck any of us are here.


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    #71
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I am happy my mother was pro-life and so my life in her womb was never at risk due to her social views.

    And even if she wanted an abortion she couldn't have one in Ireland anyway.


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    #72
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    eviltwin wrote: »
    If she's made a different choice you'd be none the wiser anyway. Stupid argument. If your parents had sex a hour earlier or later or in a different position or at a different tempo the sperm that made you would probably not have been the one to reach the egg. Its pure luck any of us are here.

    That's not true, baby Jesus picked me out of a field of babies and blessed me and sent me into my mummy's belly as a miracle.


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    #73
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,746 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Well not happy that due to pro-life dogma my life can be at risk NOW because of your social views.

    am I doing this right?

    No, you might not be here to voice these views if your mother had decided to abort.

    I will show you how abortion works for the unborn and how one can put their views across in this thread...

    Translation: I will not be posting anymore in this thread to show how silenced the unborn who were never given a chance due to abortion are, and how people who support abortion as an option have a voice to say the voiceless can be killed.


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    #74
    Its Only Ray Parlour
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Its Only Ray Parlour


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It is not their problem.

    The only problem is how some people view other people as being a problem.

    Your statement that I highlighted is silly. One could make a case for every unborn child to be aborted given life itself is a gamble.
    A child could be fine and get brain damaged at birth.
    So yes abort and tell your friends to as well, given life itself is a gamble.

    There's a much bigger risk of the DS child having severe DS than a normal child getting brain damaged at birth. I mean, how often do children get brain damaged during child birth? I personally don't know of any. Do you have any statistics?

    Some gambles have greater risks than others. Unfortunately, some people just don't have the common sense to realise this.


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    #75
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, you might not be here to voice these views if your mother had decided to abort.

    I will show you how abortion works for the unborn and how one can put their views across in this thread...

    Translation: I will not be posting anymore in this thread to show how silenced the unborn who were never given a chance due to abortion are, and how people who support abortion as an option have a voice to say the voiceless can be killed.


    and so, how do we go about aborting you?


    also, additional option, you could defend your point....


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    #76
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, you might not be here to voice these views if your mother had decided to abort.

    I will show you how abortion works for the unborn and how one can put their views across in this thread...

    Translation: I will not be posting anymore in this thread to show how silenced the unborn who were never given a chance due to abortion are, and how people who support abortion as an option have a voice to say the voiceless can be killed.

    And if your dad got a blowjob instead of a ride you wouldn't exist either. Are we playing the silly pro-life logic game now?


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    #77
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, you might not be here to voice these views if your mother had decided to abort.

    I will show you how abortion works for the unborn and how one can put their views across in this thread...

    Translation: I will not be posting anymore in this thread to show how silenced the unborn who were never given a chance due to abortion are, and how people who support abortion as an option have a voice to say the voiceless can be killed.

    Anyone for an over/under bet on how many more times he posts in this thread, now that he says he won't?


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    #78
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    No, you might not be here to voice these views if your mother had decided to abort.

    I will show you how abortion works for the unborn and how one can put their views across in this thread...

    Translation: I will not be posting anymore in this thread to show how silenced the unborn who were never given a chance due to abortion are, and how people who support abortion as an option have a voice to say the voiceless can be killed.


    I'm in the middle of my fertile time, why not have a little prayer for the baby I won't be conceiving this month.

    The mind boggles sometimes. 250million sperm released during a normal ejaculation and you were the one that made it?


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    #79
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    weep, WEEP for the unborn.

    but not arsed making a cogent argument on their behalf.


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    #80
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »
    There's a much bigger risk of the DS child having severe DS than a normal child getting brain damaged at birth. I mean, how often do children get brain damaged during child birth? I personally don't know of any. Do you have any statistics?

    Some gambles have greater risks than others. Unfortunately, some people just don't have the common sense to realise this.

    Exactly, a child being born with some minor thing that the parents are ok with and one being born with a major disability requiring care for life are different risks. Realistically nobody wants a severly handicapped child, if they do have one and manage good for them, if they dont and abort who are anyone else to judge? A couple choosing to abort a baby they know will have DS or any sort of disability affects holy joes in NO way whatsoever beyond their own sense of moral outrage.


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    #81
    Squeedily Spooch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    weep, WEEP for the unborn.

    but not arsed making a cogent argument on their behalf.

    Hysterical mental gymnastics and aww lookit the baby, babies are amazing everyone get pregnant yay!!! That's Iona level thinking. Most logical people would have some sort of morals when it comes to abortion based on logic and circumstance, so this "all babies are miracles yayy!" level of thinking is just beyond arguing with.


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    #82
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    Lads, this age old problem is solved.

    seems the unborn communicate via pm...


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    #83
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Lads, this age old problem is solved.

    seems the unborn communicate via pm...

    LOL, no way the likes of RobertKK would be able to not try and get the last word in - does the 'silence of the unborn' not extend to PMs then Robert?


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    #84
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    Some heartless f*****s out there all the same.

    That woman's story actually touched me. What she and her husband effectively got was a life sentence.


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    #85
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Lads, this age old problem is solved.

    seems the unborn communicate via pm...

    I thought he'd aborted himself.


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    #86
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    If my mother chose to have me aborted and I had someway of knowing this, I would not judge her what so ever. I know how much my mother lost with me. She had me when she was very young and had no family support. She had to feed both of us on a tenner a week for many years and often went days at the end of the week without food herself. Now I'm not disabled and my mother claims that without me, she would have possibly ended up going down a dark path but the fact still remains, I made her life quite difficult for the first few years and I would not gave blamed her one bit. Nor do I blame any woman who wants an abortion if the pregnancy and subsequent child raising is going to cause issues. I hate the argument that 'I wouldn't be here if my mother had an abortion'...


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    #87
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Grayson wrote: »
    That woman's story actually touched me. What she and her husband effectively got was a life sentence.


    What has bugged me as the thread has gone on I see posts about scans and the option to terminate the pregency but 47 years ago was the technology advanced enough to tell if a child was going to be born DS or with any other life threatening issues. It's easy to have a go at this old couple who have spent the last 47 years looking after their baby but they are living with the fear of what happens their son when they are gone.


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    #88
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    branie2 wrote: »
    No mother would ever wish that.

    Lots of mothers wish that, few would publicly admit it because of people like you.


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    #89
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    Lots of mothers wish that, few would publicly admit it because of people like you.


    There's another issue in play here depending on how you look at the situation - why do lots of mothers feel that way?

    The answer could be because of the lack of support provided for them in caring for their offspring with disorders or diseases. Abortion shouldn't have to be the default option, and it's a bit late to be discussing abortion when the baby is born.

    We should be discussing how to provide help and support to these people and their families so that we don't end up with a society where human beings have no value if they don't meet our expectations of normal human beings.

    The question has to be asked - would this woman, her family, and her son have suffered as much as they did, or feel the way they do now, if they had received the support they needed from society?

    I don't think they would, but nothing is as black and white as what you read in a single newspaper article.


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    #90
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »
    Why should she feel guilty about normal human nature ?.

    Down Syndrome has been completely eradicated in Scandanavia.
    Last figures I heard from the UK stated over 90% of parents choose to abort.

    The only thing she needs to feel guilty about is not having the test done.

    Has DS been eradicated in Sweden?
    How did they do it?


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    #91
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Well I am happy my mother was pro-life and so my life in her womb was never at risk due to her social views.

    tbf, if she did abort you, you wouldn't know or be here to argue, so you being happy, really doesn't matter.


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