Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Gillian Relf (69) wishes she aborted her downs syndrome son (47)

Options
  • 23-10-2014 12:03pm
    #1
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2803834/I-wish-d-aborted-son-ve-spent-47-years-caring-s-shocking-admission-read-judge.html


    Following a similar article recently, here's an honestly hard to read article.

    Never really thought about situations like this. I always knew parents of downs syndrome children had a tough time but reading this put me in their shoes and considered how draining it would be to be the parents, caring for them until the day you die and the worst thing is, the older you get and closer to dying you'd become even more distraught because of the worry about what will happen to them after you do die. And then thinking about it from the sons perspective, although he may not know any better, is it even worth being alive if it puts such a burden on your family? Not that it'd be an easy decision to make for anyone, but in cases like this I wouldn't judge parents who chose to have abortions.


«134

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    12 element
    Registered Users Posts: 718 ✭✭✭12 element


    The Daily Fail


  • Options
    #3
    Dancor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Dancor


    12 element wrote: »
    The Daily Fail

    And yet it is the most commonly referred and linked online news site on this forum.


  • Options
    #4
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    My heart goes out to her. I have two children with special needs, both very mild and relatively easy to manage, but there are days I just want to run away. I am lucky though, mine will be able to live independently. I do have an older cousin with a severe mental issue who needs constant care and his parents have sacrificed a normal life for him. It's a big ask. I hope this woman is treated with the sensitivity she deserves.


  • Options
    #5
    Philo Beddoe
    Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Philo Beddoe


    Dancor wrote: »
    And yet it is the most commonly referred and linked online news site on this forum.

    Because the Mail online site churns out clickbait stories by the thousand, not because of any particular quality to their journalism.


  • Options
    #6
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    I would not judge anyone who made a decision to abort a baby for whatever reason.

    What's going to happen to the guy in that story when his parents die or are unable to care for him?

    What's the point in living purely to suffer and struggle?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    mackg wrote: »
    I would not judge anyone who made a decision to abort a baby for whatever reason.

    What's going to happen to the guy in that story when his parents die or are unable to care for him?

    What's the point in living purely to suffer and struggle?
    I agree. But I'd say the Mail's aim is to rabble-rouse and polarise rather than to sensitively examine the reality of life with a very disabled child.


  • Options
    #8
    Shiraz 4.99
    Site Banned Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Shiraz 4.99


    Why should she feel guilty about normal human nature ?.

    Down Syndrome has been completely eradicated in Scandanavia.
    Last figures I heard from the UK stated over 90% of parents choose to abort.

    The only thing she needs to feel guilty about is not having the test done.


  • Options
    #9
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    I agree. But I'd say the Mail's aim is to rabble-rouse and polarise rather than to sensitively examine the reality of life with a very disabled child.

    I don't think it's worked in this case from a quick glance at the comments. Whatever about the Mail's angle fair play to that woman for being honest and telling her story.


  • Options
    #10
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    It seems her mental health was the bigger issue, it comes across as if she made herself feel like a victim which made the situation far worse.


  • Options
    #11
    Oregano_State
    Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Oregano_State


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It seems her mental health was the bigger issue, it comes across as if she made herself feel like a victim which made the situation far worse.

    "She made herself feel like a victim".

    Come off it, she's clearly expressed her point of view. How would you respond to her saying that if she'd had the abortion, she would have been able to have another child that would be a help to her other son after she and her husband pass on, instead of a responsibility?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Oregano_State wrote: »
    "She made herself feel like a victim".

    Come off it, she's clearly expressed her point of view. How would you respond to her saying that if she'd had the abortion, she would have been able to have another child that would be a help to her other son after she and her husband pass on, instead of a responsibility?

    It didn't stop her having another child, that is just an excuse. I grew up with a person who had DS, we as the person's family looked after her when her mother died, her father had died many decades earlier.
    Woe to my family and the responsibility, oh how terrible this is, where is this attitude getting that man's mother?


  • Options
    #13
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It didn't stop her having another child, that is just an excuse.


    who the **** are you to say how she felt about it?


  • Options
    #14
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    I've sympathy for her struggle but I find her attitude troubling.

    She cannot claim to love him but wish she had an abortion - every single day she has this thought. She seems hung up on what she has lost rather than seeing any positive of it.
    I also fail to see how she can have these thoughts "every day" and none of that affects her son. Anybody would pick up on those vibes.

    It does seem like a "woe me" piece.


  • Options
    #15
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,298 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    No mother would ever wish that.


  • Options
    #16
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    When you know your life is coming to an end you look back on the positives and negatives as you know that's it now, you've had your go. The truth is that this womans life was made very difficult when her son was born. For 47 years she struggled looking after her son, her own needs were neglected in this.


  • Options
    #17
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    branie2 wrote: »
    No mother would ever wish that.
    Wish what?


  • Options
    #18
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    The hardline pro-life crowd just pretend not to see all the factors that destroy their arguments.
    cletus van damme wrote: »
    She cannot claim to love him but wish she had an abortion
    In my opinion she can.

    She loves him now that he's here, but that doesn't mean she can't simultaneously wish she could have changed things.

    I know it doesn't make sense, but humans often don't.


  • Options
    #19
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    I've sympathy for her struggle but I find her attitude troubling.

    She cannot claim to love him but wish she had an abortion - every single day she has this thought. She seems hung up on what she has lost rather than seeing any positive of it.
    I also fall to see how she can have these thoughts "every day" and none of that affects her son.

    It does seem like a "woe me" piece.

    Yes, she can. Have a look at the documentary The Boy Whose Skin Fell Off, about a man with EB, a condition that causes painful blistering at the slightest touch. His mother cared for him all his life and obviously loved him but openly said that had there been a test when she was pregnant she would have terminated, and he agreed with her.

    Bringing a child into the world to know nothing but confusion and pain does not mean that you love it any more than the woman who made the decision to terminate a child with the same condition - she just decided that not having to live with that pain would be better for her and her child. It doesn't mean that the woman who terminates a child with a disability didn't love it and didn't grieve for it.


  • Options
    #20
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    who the **** are you to say how she felt about it?

    She was not made infertile by DS.

    She chose to not have another child.


  • Options
    #21
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,298 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Wish what?

    That she had aborted her son.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    She was not made infertile by DS.

    She chose to not have another child.
    She decided that she would not be able to cope with a small child, a severely disabled toddler, and a baby. Do you think it would have been fair to a child to bring it into a family where its needs may not have been able to be met because of the demands placed on its parents by a child with DS?


  • Options
    #23
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    branie2 wrote: »
    That she had aborted her son.
    A mother can, and some do.


  • Options
    #24
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    I've sympathy for her struggle but I find her attitude troubling.

    She cannot claim to love him but wish she had an abortion - every single day she has this thought. She seems hung up on what she has lost rather than seeing any positive of it.
    I also fail to see how she can have these thoughts "every day" and none of that affects her son. Anybody would pick up on those vibes.

    It does seem like a "woe me" piece.


    She can of course. Human beings aren't cut and dried and they can often have conflicting feelings and emotions.

    I'm sensing the Daily Mail though has decided to focus on these stories and is actively seeking these people out, and I don't think their motives are anything to do with empathising with this woman's and her son's welfare.


  • Options
    #25
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    kylith wrote: »
    She decided that she would not be able to cope with a small child, a severely disabled toddler, and a baby. Do you think it would have been fair to a child to bring it into a family where its needs may not have been able to be met because of the demands placed on its parents by a child with DS?

    Maybe it would have helped her mentally.


  • Options
    #26
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    branie2 wrote: »
    That she had aborted her son.
    But she's a mother.
    I'd say there are plenty of mothers who think this.
    Maternal ambivalence, or even maternal resentment... horrible, grim idea - it feels like women should only love and cherish the life they carried for nine months - but unfortunately it's not always the case.
    Look at all the neglect and abuse and infanticide that goes on.
    Then there are mothers who would never dream of neglecting or abusing their child or causing them to suffer in any way, but they still harbour feelings of ambivalence/resentment towards the child. It seems awful, but if they can't help it, can they be blamed?


  • Options
    #27
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Maybe it would have helped her mentally.

    Because what she needed was more stress and guilt in her life?


  • Options
    #28
    Summer wind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭Summer wind


    I really feel for this family. It must be terrible to want and wish so much for your son and live every day with the knowledge that most of it can't happen. That poor man must have been through so much in his life.


  • Options
    #29
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Is every pregnant woman tested for these things nowadays also?


  • Options
    #30
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    kylith wrote: »
    Because what she needed was more stress and guilt in her life?

    Why does she have guilt?

    Is her son trying to kill himself wishing he wasn't born?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    kylith wrote: »
    Yes, she can. Have a look at the documentary The Boy Whose Skin Fell Off, about a man with EB, a condition that causes painful blistering at the slightest touch. His mother cared for him all his life and obviously loved him but openly said that had there been a test when she was pregnant she would have terminated, and he agreed with her.

    Bringing a child into the world to know nothing but confusion and pain does not mean that you love it any more than the woman who made the decision to terminate a child with the same condition - she just decided that not having to live with that pain would be better for her and her child. It doesn't mean that the woman who terminates a child with a disability didn't love it and didn't grieve for it.

    That docu (which I haven't seen ) may make that point but that's EB and this is Downs. they are not comparible.
    Did she say it was because of the pain he was in or because life was tough? there is a big difference.
    kylith wrote: »
    Bringing a child into the world to know nothing but confusion and pain .

    Get the fcuk. To say that about Downs is so wide of the mark that i don't know how to answer that.

    To the others that quoted me and disagreed - so be it we disagree.


    Shakepeares Sister - I may be Pro life (thanks for quoting me) but this isn't actually an abortion discussion per se. It about her attitude 47 years year to a living breathing child.


Advertisement