Water meter protests

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 10:07AM

These water charges were brought in as another money collecting exercise to pay off troika loans that shouldn't have been burdened onto the Irish people.
Do people not understand this?, I'm sick of hearing the bull**** about its wrong to protest and that we "have" to pay!, what has this country become!?
We have been paying for water through the tax system. Specifically 5% on motor tax and 2% on VAT.

This austerity crap to pay off these massive loans is just morally wrong.

Also the Irish Water company is set up in such a way that it can be sold off and privatised down the road.
Imagine that........

Anatom · 03-10-2014 10:18AM

dwaincasey wrote: »

These water charges were brought in as another money collecting exercise to pay off troika loans that shouldn't have been burdened onto the Irish people.
Do people not understand this?, I'm sick of hearing the bull**** about its wrong to protest and that we "have" to pay!, what has this country become!?
We have been paying for water through the tax system. Specifically 5% on motor tax and 2% on VAT.

This austerity crap to pay off these massive loans is just morally wrong.

Also the Irish Water company is set up in such a way that it can be sold off and privatised down the road.
Imagine that........

Sigh.

Peppa Pig · 03-10-2014 10:26AM

dwaincasey wrote: »

I'm sick of hearing the bull**** about its wrong to protest

Nobody is saying it is wrong to protest, but to do so in an intimidating, thuggish, illegal manner is.

shedweller · 03-10-2014 11:45AM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Nobody is saying it is wrong to protest, but to do so in an intimidating, thuggish, illegal manner is.

What way would you protest?

Peppa Pig · 03-10-2014 12:43PM

shedweller wrote: »

What way would you protest?

If I felt strongly enough about water charges I would join in a peaceful march that was legally approved and properly stewarded. Unfortunately I cannot recall any of these in the last number of years. All these marches appear to be hijacked/organised by loony lefties and degenerate into lawlessness and a plethora of you tube videos claiming to show garda brutality.
Off the top of my head I can recall property tax, students, lockout, palestine. All noble causes that degenerated into rowdiness.

I would not go threatening guards, kicking people's cars, blocking traffic, screaming in workers faces and threatening all sorts of physical harm. Essentially all we have seen in the videos posted in this thread.

What would you do?

Anatom · 03-10-2014 12:46PM

Talk to your local councillor, your local TD (as many as possible), your local Minister. Voice your opinion directly to where it can make a difference, not at the side of the road where even the media is tired of the "news" of a new protest. Convince a sufficient number of people to join you and that may change things to the way you want. That's how democracy works.

opinionated3 · 03-10-2014 02:16PM

Anatom wrote: »

Talk to your local councillor, your local TD (as many as possible), your local Minister. Voice your opinion directly to where it can make a difference, not at the side of the road where even the media is tired of the "news" of a new protest. Convince a sufficient number of people to join you and that may change things to the way you want. That's how democracy works.

Do you not think that all local tds must know by now that there is mass opposition to this new tax?? Cos let's be honest here its not for our benefit no matter what picture enda and his cohorts want you to believe. And still our local ministers just do whatever enda tells them to do. So your idea of protest the way you described it is just being largely ignored by those in power. So what's next?

hatrickpatrick · 03-10-2014 02:23PM

dwaincasey wrote: »

These water charges were brought in as another money collecting exercise to pay off troika loans that shouldn't have been burdened onto the Irish people.

It really is that simple. Taxes were increased to compensate for the abolition of rates. Taxes will not be reduced to compensate for the introduction of water charges - the money saved will be siphoned off into either bailout repayments or government cronyism.

I wouldn't have nearly as massive an issue with water charges if this was not the case.

BoJack Horseman · 03-10-2014 02:26PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

the money saved will be siphoned off into either bailout repayments or government cronyism.

That's it is it?
The savings are ring-fenced for bailouts & corruption...
Nothing to do with the €50bn+ spent annually simply running the country?

Ridiculous.

Little CuChulainn · 03-10-2014 02:26PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It really is that simple. Taxes were increased to compensate for the abolition of rates. Taxes will not be reduced to compensate for the introduction of water charges - the money saved will be siphoned off into either bailout repayments or government cronyism.

I wouldn't have nearly as massive an issue with water charges if this was not the case.

You're basing it on assumption though. If tax is reduced in the next budget will you hold the same opinion?

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 03:20PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

To those who are complaining about how this is taking away your 'right to water' - I'm not sure if there are any on this thread, I haven't read it all, but they're all over facebook - No one is stopping you from sticking a bucket outside your door and collecting all the water you like. This is Ireland, it's not exactly rare (which I've also seen plenty of people point out when complaining about the charges).

Now, the obvious response to this is 'if it's not rare then why the feck are they charging us for it?'. Which seems like an excellent point on the surface. The thing is though, treating the water and getting it pumped to where it's needed costs money. Now there's certainly an argument to be made that the charges are excessive, but saying we shouldn't be charged at all and Irish Water are a shower of bastards is akin to giving out about the ESB because electricity comes from the sky sometimes.

WE ALREADY PAY FOR THIS WATER TREATMENT, via the extra 5% on motor tax and the extra 2% on VAT which was /is ringfenced for water.....

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 03:21PM

Also , the Protesters are getting bad press for the rowdiness / trouble...
If you look at the videos, in my opinion it is the Guards and Irish Water Workers that are provoking the trouble and stand - offs.

Chips Lovell · 03-10-2014 03:24PM

It's agent provocateurs causing all the trouble. The people stirring up the protesters in getting violent are actually undercover Gardaí. FACT

BoJack Horseman · 03-10-2014 03:25PM

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

It's agent provocateurs causing all the trouble. The people stirring up the protesters in getting violent are actually undercover Gardaí. FACT

Well, its in caps.

Case closed!

Uriel. · 03-10-2014 03:29PM

dwaincasey wrote: »

WE ALREADY PAY FOR THIS WATER TREATMENT, via the extra 5% on motor tax and the extra 2% on VAT which was /is ringfenced for water.....

Do you pay enough?

Uriel. · 03-10-2014 03:29PM

dwaincasey wrote: »

Also , the Protesters are getting bad press for the rowdiness / trouble...
If you look at the videos, in my opinion it is the Guards and Irish Water Workers that are provoking the trouble and stand - offs.

sure throw us out an explanation there for this viewpoint. It'll help us to laugh at you more.;)

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 03:33PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Do you pay enough?

I wouldn't know, but if we aren't , I'm sure the general revenue system could have been tweeked via general taxation,
Why spend 180 million on setting up Irish water ?

Because it's about selling our natural resources off in the future.
When Enda Kenny says that won't happen, he is telling lies. The company is setup in such a way that it can be /will be sold to vultures.

This is not what's best for Ireland and it's people!

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 03:39PM

Uriel. wrote: »

sure throw us out an explanation there for this viewpoint. It'll help us to laugh at you more.;)

You haven't seen the videos of Guards pushing women around (in some cases to the ground), have you not?
You haven't seen men with their hands in the air requesting to Peacefully Protest being manhandled by guards as they are not walking quick enough for their liking?
(Even though it was expressed in the high court this week that the people will and do have the right to protest.
Hence initial injunctions on protesters lifted.....?

dwaincasey · 03-10-2014 04:15PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Do you think you sound more convincing by using all caps or something? Obviously that money isn't enough, the water distribution system in this country is an absolute fecking mess. Now I'm not saying the way Irish Water are going about things is right, in fact I'm highly skeptical that that's the case, but I don't think having a proper body in charge of the country's water is in itself a bad thing. The protestors aren't being in any way reasonable. Protesting for reasonable charges, with full transparency on where the money is going would be reasonable. Throwing a tantrum and refusing to pay altogether is just silly.

The caps was to emphasise the point as some-one previously said there is a cost to treating the water and thats why we "have" to pay....

A centralised body running the distribution system is a good thing, but not this way...
I believe its crony ism of the highest order and that's why we shouldn't pay.

Check out the Poll on the Journal...66% say they are not paying, only 11% are happy to pay?
An interesting one, how it plays out in the overall population will also be interesting!

BoJack Horseman · 03-10-2014 04:18PM

dwaincasey wrote: »

Check out the Poll on the Journal...66% say they are not paying, only 11% are happy to pay?
An interesting one, how it plays out in the overall population will also be interesting!

The Journal comment section is Shinner central.

They forget that the tax take under SF would be much higher.

end of the road · 03-10-2014 04:18PM

Peppa Pig wrote: »

If I felt strongly enough about water charges I would join in a peaceful march that was legally approved and properly stewarded. Unfortunately I cannot recall any of these in the last number of years. All these marches appear to be hijacked/organised by loony lefties and degenerate into lawlessness and a plethora of you tube videos claiming to show garda brutality.
Off the top of my head I can recall property tax, students, lockout, palestine. All noble causes that degenerated into rowdiness.

I would not go threatening guards, kicking people's cars, blocking traffic, screaming in workers faces and threatening all sorts of physical harm. Essentially all we have seen in the videos posted in this thread.

What would you do?

peaceful protest doesn't work

suicide_circus · 03-10-2014 05:27PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The Journal comment section is Shinner central.

They forget that the tax take under SF would be much higher.

No no!

Under SF only the top 1% of earners would pay any tax at all while all the rest would live in a utopian world of Scandinavian services and endless free cash.

hatrickpatrick · 03-10-2014 05:47PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You're basing it on assumption though. If tax is reduced in the next budget will you hold the same opinion?

Obviously not, it won't be a double tax then. I still won't approve of it, but I'll disapprove a lot less than I do now.
Not holding my breath, however.

FREETV · 08-10-2014 11:51AM

Take a look at this folks.
It should enlighten a few people.

https://www.facebook.com/WeWontPayTheWaterCharges

By the way wasn't frontage outside the driveway on to the foothpaths paid for by people in certain areas before?
Therefore they installed meters on your properties without your consent.

uck51js9zml2yt · 08-10-2014 11:54AM

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

It's agent provocateurs causing all the trouble. The people stirring up the protesters in getting violent are actually undercover Gardaí. FACT

Show us the proof or move your post into the conspiracy theories forum

FREETV · 08-10-2014 11:58AM

Mohammad Silly Tentacle wrote: »

Show us the proof or move your post into the conspiracy theories forum

I would personally believe that to be true, the Brits do it all the time.
The dirty scumbag Shysters in power are like the mob/mafia and are capable of any dirty tactics and treasonous behaviours.

Anatom · 08-10-2014 12:12PM

FREETV wrote: »

I would personally believe that to be true, the Brits do it all the time.
The dirty scumbag Shysters in power are like the mob/mafia and are capable of any dirty tactics and treasonous behaviours.

I think you're way off the truth there. Anyone I've spoken with in the gardaí (I live near quite a number of them) couldn't give a toss about who is protesting where - they know most of the serial protestors already in any case.

Anyway, Ireland's too small for the most part to have undercover gardaí trying to "infiltrate" a group of people standing around a hole...

FREETV · 08-10-2014 12:33PM

Anatom wrote: »

I think you're way off the truth there. Anyone I've spoken with in the gardaí (I live near quite a number of them) couldn't give a toss about who is protesting where - they know most of the serial protestors already in any case.

Anyway, Ireland's too small for the most part to have undercover gardaí trying to "infiltrate" a group of people standing around a hole...

The Gardai will do whatever they are told to do by whoever is in power at any given time as long as their salaries are still paid.

Anatom · 08-10-2014 12:42PM

FREETV wrote: »

The Gardai will do whatever they are told to do by whoever is in power at any given time as long as their salaries are still paid.

Well if you mean that they continue to do their jobs, well that's no harm really is it? I think you overestimate the political influence over garda operations...

_Kaiser_ · 08-10-2014 12:43PM

Anatom wrote: »

Well if you mean that they continue to do their jobs, well that's no harm really is it? I think you overestimate the political influence over garda operations...

You must have missed the Shatter/Callinan/Whistleblowers affair then?

Water meter protests

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