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Hi all, we have some important news to share. Please follow the link here to find out more!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

Government to reverse some Public Secor Pay cuts

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Comments

  • #1082
    Paulzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I'm sure we could get plenty of qualified staff for instance to teach for less than €30K. Nurses too. Same across all the PS, Government ought to bypass the unions...what's the catch I hear you say...oh yes, their own pay may suffer too. ;)


    How about less than 20K seeing as your plucking random thoughts from your head...........or maybe less than 10K?


  • #1083
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Rightwing wrote: »
    More or less. As the ad goes 'because you are worth it'

    It's kind of hard to debate against such ignorance.


  • #1084
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I'm sure we could get plenty of qualified staff for instance to teach for less than €30K. Nurses too. Same across all the PS, Government ought to bypass the unions...what's the catch I hear you say...oh yes, their own pay may suffer too. ;)

    Every single Public Sector worker has taken a pay cut so there goes your logic.


  • #1085
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Paulzx wrote: »
    How about less than 20K seeing as your plucking random thoughts from your head...........or maybe less than 10K?

    Sure why people at all??? Labour should be free.


  • #1086
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Rightwing wrote:
    I'm sure we could get plenty of qualified staff for instance to teach for less than €30K.

    I doubt it, you are talking about graduates.

    OECD data also discussed here
    ScreenShot2014-09-29at001325_zpsea1987c4.png


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  • #1087
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    creedp wrote: »
    I think you would find that also applies in many areas of the private sector. A friend of mine works for a company that has bases in the South and North and he is currently seconded to work in the northern base but continues to be paid from the South. He get slagged by the northern based guys because the rate of pay for the same job is significanty higher in the south. His retort is at least ye have the NHS!

    Of course there are no unions in the private sector to protect workers from such exploitation.

    I'm all in favour of foreign workers coming into the private sector as well and forcing down labour costs there.


  • #1088
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I'm all in favour of foreign workers coming into the private sector as well and forcing down labour costs there.

    Yeah very true, hardly foreign workers have come into the private sector in the last 10-15 years. :confused:. Jeez gimme a break.


  • #1089
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    This report from the Irish Times says that the EC is pressing government to implement the €2b in cuts.

    Cold comfort to the coalition in trying to buy the next general election!


  • #1090
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    golfwallah wrote: »
    This report from the Irish Times says that the EC is pressing government to implement the €2b in cuts.

    Cold comfort to the coalition in trying to buy the next general election!

    The government SHOULD implement the 2 billion in cuts.
    Anything else is a simple return to the usual vote buying when it makes more sense to carry on with trying to balance the books for at least another year.


  • #1091
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    kippy wrote: »
    The government SHOULD implement the 2 billion in cuts.
    Anything else is a simple return to the usual vote buying when it makes more sense to carry on with trying to balance the books for at least another year.

    Should only in a way.

    There's no point in this Govt bringing cuts and then get hammered in the next election, only for SF/FF to get in with crony politics and welfare/PS boosting budgets. The EC would do well to remember this for the whole of the EU.


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  • #1092
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Should only in a way.

    There's no point in this Govt bringing cuts and then get hammered in the next election, only for SF/FF to get in with crony politics and welfare/PS boosting budgets. The EC would do well to remember this for the whole of the EU.
    This government are going to get hammered in the next election either way.
    They don't have billions to give away.


  • #1093
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    kippy wrote: »
    This government are going to get hammered in the next election either way.
    They don't have billions to give away.

    I'm not sure about that, if there's no more severe budgets they may get away realtively unscathed.


  • #1094
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,350 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Rightwing wrote: »
    I'm not sure about that, if there's no more severe budgets they may get away realtively unscathed.

    Nah. Not gonna happen.


  • #1095
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    kippy wrote: »
    Nah. Not gonna happen.

    It's where economics and politics collide.

    I'm all in our of more austerity, but the population at large are too dim and shortsighted for it to work properly.


  • #1096
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    The government have entirely failed to articulate some long range model for public finances; what expenditure is needed for services, a sustainable and just public pay model and a long term capital spending plan. With such a model they could argue for a particular budget level, without it then we are back to the usual nonsense. With such a model they could argue for re-election on the basis that they had organised the State in a sustainable way. But they don't even seem to aspire to such a thing, e.g. they have a Fiscal Council, but basically ignore them.


  • #1097
    sarumite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    ardmacha wrote: »
    The government have entirely failed to articulate some long range model for public finances; what expenditure is needed for services, a sustainable and just public pay model and a long term capital spending plan. With such a model they could argue for a particular budget level, without it then we are back to the usual nonsense. With such a model they could argue for re-election on the basis that they had organised the State in a sustainable way. But they don't even seem to aspire to such a thing, e.g. they have a Fiscal Council, but basically ignore them.

    To say they have 'entirely failed to articulate some long range model for public finances' is just risible nonsense. As to a 'a sustainable and just public pay model', that was was next to impossible to implement considering they came in halfway through the CPA. The only thing in your post that is even remotely logical is comment about a long term capital spending plan. While I agree that we need more capital expenditure I am also aware that we have commitments under the fiscal compact to get our house in order in the short term. Its difficult to make long term plans in such a harsh economic climate.


  • #1098
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    sarumite wrote: »
    To say they have 'entirely failed to articulate some long range model for public finances' is just risible nonsense. As to a 'a sustainable and just public pay model', that was was next to impossible to implement considering they came in halfway through the CPA. The only thing in your post that is even remotely logical is comment about a long term capital spending plan. While I agree that we need more capital expenditure I am also aware that we have commitments under the fiscal compact to get our house in order in the short term. Its difficult to make long term plans in such a harsh economic climate.

    So "Risible nonsense", not just incorrect. Perhaps you would like to illustrate the details of this great plan and alleviate my ignorance on the matter. I'm sure that many other viewers of this forum cannot discern the plan either, although some of them don't care.
    sarumite wrote: »
    As to a 'a sustainable and just public pay model', that was was next to impossible to implement considering they came in halfway through the CPA.

    I didn't say that they should have implemented a plan two years ago, I said they should have articulated one by now. Instead we had the unprincipled Haddington Road so that they'd be able to talk about tax cuts before the election.
    sarumite wrote: »
    While I agree that we need more capital expenditure I am also aware that we have commitments under the fiscal compact to get our house in order in the short term.

    Indeed. The Troika did require some plans, have the government shown any willingness to plan beyond this point?


  • #1099
    golfwallah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    Latest Exchequer Returns show that, although ahead of last year and ahead of cumulative forecast, key taxes came in below target for September.

    Another indicator of the need for caution rather than a give-away budget on October 14th - much less a reversal of Public Sector pay cuts.

    See here for Irish Times report.


  • #1100
    noodler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,554 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Latest Exchequer Returns show that, although ahead of last year and ahead of cumulative forecast, key taxes came in below target for September.

    Another indicator of the need for caution rather than a give-away budget on October 14th - much less a reversal of Public Sector pay cuts.

    See here for Irish Times report.

    In fairness, not sure anyone in this thread is arguing for it before the expiration of HRA.

    Unions just said they would lodge a claim next year.


  • #1101
    NotInventedHere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭NotInventedHere


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Latest Exchequer Returns show that, although ahead of last year and ahead of cumulative forecast, key taxes came in below target for September.

    Another indicator of the need for caution rather than a give-away budget on October 14th - much less a reversal of Public Sector pay cuts.

    See here for Irish Times report.

    Amazing, this story appeared just in time to dampen expectations. Along with the story about there being only 600 million available for adjustments. It almost as if........


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  • #1102
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    They need to be clearing out the dead wood in the PS. That's 1 of the biggest threats facing the country.


  • #1103
    NotInventedHere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭NotInventedHere


    Rightwing wrote: »
    They need to be clearing out the dead wood in the PS. That's 1 of the biggest threats facing the country.

    Maybe, but we will still have to pay them and their families social welfare and employ some people to replace them. I think reduced pay terms are the way forward. Leave the entry points to the payscales unchanged but reduce the top ends significantly.


  • #1104
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    NotInventedHere wrote: »
    Maybe, but we will still have to pay them and their families social welfare and employ some people to replace them.

    Maybe no need to replace them. I'd say the councils are grossly overstaffed. Then all the admin in the HSE, waste, we'd be far better if all of the dead wood was on welfare.


  • #1105
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,123 ✭✭✭eigrod


    The Pie Chart on the 7th slide in this presentation from yesterday's announcement gives a very clear picture of where our money goes.

    Pay cuts outside of the Health & Education Sectors really make little or no difference to the overall picture.

    http://www.finance.gov.ie/sites/default/files/End-September%202014%20Exchequer%20Returns%20Presentation.pdf


  • #1106
    NotInventedHere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭NotInventedHere


    I remain unconvinced, as I have always suspected that the PS is used as way of subsidising the regions in this country without the government having to intervene directly through transfer payments.


  • #1107
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    They need to be clearing out the dead wood in the PS. That's 1 of the biggest threats facing the country.


    I wouldn't say that at all.

    The biggest risk this country has would be a government taking the nutty suggestions made on internet boards seriously.


  • #1108
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    NotInventedHere wrote: »
    I remain unconvinced, as I have always suspected that the PS is used as way of subsidising the regions in this country without the government having to intervene directly through transfer payments.

    There's certainly truth in this. But then when the benchmarking came in, it caused havoc.


  • #1109
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    eigrod wrote: »
    The Pie Chart on the 7th slide in this presentation from yesterday's announcement gives a very clear picture of where our money goes.

    Pay cuts outside of the Health & Education Sectors really make little or no difference to the overall picture.

    http://www.finance.gov.ie/sites/default/files/End-September%202014%20Exchequer%20Returns%20Presentation.pdf

    That piechart underestimates the amount of social transfers quite significantly.

    For a start, grant payments made under the education bill are under education, medical card expenditure is under health.


  • #1110
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Rightwing wrote: »
    There's certainly truth in this. But then when the benchmarking came in, it caused havoc.

    There was havoc in this country in 2002? Was there really?


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  • #1111
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Godge wrote: »
    There was havoc in this country in 2002? Was there really?

    Now you have it. That's ultimately what led to the IMF bailout.


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