Government to reverse some Public Secor Pay cuts

Rightwing

Shady Tady wrote: »

Of private sector banks and speculators!!

And the worrying thing is, despite these 'qualifications' I'm hearing about, the muppets being bailed out, blame Europe.

Fr. Ned

This lad...

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald.ie%2Fnews%2F630000-golden-handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-27901281.html&ei=SFYxVJngDo3W7Qbl7YB4&usg=AFQjCNGqCvNXRS8E_5iQti9Ulcmtd9IAQg&bvm=bv.76802529,d.ZGU

Nice gig if you can get it.

Rightwing

Fr. Ned wrote: »

This lad...

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herald.ie%2Fnews%2F630000-golden-handshake-for-the-bungling-banks-watchdog-pat-neary-27901281.html&ei=SFYxVJngDo3W7Qbl7YB4&usg=AFQjCNGqCvNXRS8E_5iQti9Ulcmtd9IAQg&bvm=bv.76802529,d.ZGU

Nice gig if you can get it.

As the ad goes ' because he was worth it'

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

A lot do.

We don't want another bailout.

You're just a begrudger.

A failure in life.

Rightwing

Peter Flynt wrote: »

You're just a begrudger.

A failure in life.

You'd do well in a debate I suspect.

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

You'd do well in a debate I suspect.

Who else do you hate?

Black People?

Immigrants?

Black people who are immigrants?

The unemployed?

I'd say the list is endless.

Rightwing

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Who else do you hate?

Black People?

Immigrants?

Black people who are immigrants?

The unemployed?

I'd say the list is endless.

None, but that's not to say I want to see endless amounts of them allowed into the country. Or folks sitting at home all day unwilling to help themselves.

Hope this helps.

Peter Flynt

Rightwing wrote: »

None, but . .

Just as I thought

Fr. Ned

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Just as I thought

Is the word 'but' banned or something on boards.ie?
Does it mean something that I don't know about?

Peter Flynt

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Is the word 'but' banned or something on boards.ie?
Does it mean something that I don't know about?

Er. . When someone uses the words "But" or "However" in a sentence you can usually ignore what came before it. . . . Especially when judging closet racists like RightWing.

barneystinson

Peter Flynt wrote: »

:rolleyes:

"I'll play the roll of a public sector worker telling everyone around how well paid they are"

Have a look at my posting history - I must be under pretty deep cover

barneystinson

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There was a graph there that you quoted . . and er. . ignored.

Regarding the PRD - It's a pay cut on all public sector workers (as admitted by Lenihan when he introduced it).

It was introduced six months after the first 7.5% average pay cut.

They didn't want to introduce a second "pay cut" in six months . . .so they called it a "Pension Related Deduction" instead - A deduction based on your wage and contributing to your pension.

It is not paying for the pensions of retired PS workers for one very simple reason - there is NO PENSION FUND.

There was a pension fund - but that has long since been raided to bail out the private sector banks which have since been nationalised.

So having called it a pension contribution - I believe you said we're paying 15% towards our pensions - you now accept its a pay cut, as I said all along.

You're doing the pro-PS side of this debate no favours with the childish carry on.

Monife

barneystinson wrote: »

There's a difference between underpaid and low paid.

Low paid, maybe so, since the above implies an hourly rate of within 30% - 35% of minimum wage, and a fair bit below the global average wage (for public or private).

But underpaid? That can only be objectively determined based on a comparison between your job and an equivalent one elsewhere. And in doing so, bear in mind the non-pay benefits such as flexi, shorter working year etc... as well as the guaranteed increments.

Also worth bearing in mind that the entry requirement for a CO is a leaving cert; just because the calibre of people applying recently is way beyond that doesn't mean the job should pay any more.

The salary scale for my job in the private sector would be between €30,000 and €50,000 depending on experience. There is no shorter working year or work sharing where I work. Increments aren't worth much in the grand scheme of things, it will take me 16 years to reach the top of the scale, being approx. €37,000 if I don't succeed at getting promoted.

I have two third level qualifications.

So yeah, I would say underpaid, for the majority of new entrants.

barneystinson

Monife wrote: »

The salary scale for my job in the private sector would be between €30,000 and €50,000 depending on experience. There is no shorter working year or work sharing where I work. Increments aren't worth much in the grand scheme of things, it will take me 16 years to reach the top of the scale, being approx. €37,000 if I don't succeed at getting promoted.

I have two third level qualifications.

So yeah, I would say underpaid, for the majority of new entrants.

In which case I presume that you'll only stay until you land one of those private sector jobs, and the PS will in the long term only be able to retain the monkeys who are willing to work for, relatively speaking, peanuts.

Rightwing

barneystinson wrote: »

In which case I presume that you'll only stay until you land one of those private sector jobs, and the PS will in the long term only be able to retain the monkeys who are willing to work for, relatively speaking, peanuts.

Indeed, that's how the market works. In reality though, I'd urge caution before joining the private sector, unless you really have something to offer, and will get the promotions you deserve.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

They need a rise alright :rolleyes:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/public-sector-pay-is-48-more-than-private-283560.html
Public sector workers earn on average 48% more than those employed in the private sector, according to figures from the Central Statistics Office.
Public servants are paid an average of €919 per week, compared to €622 in the private sector.

not this rubbish again.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

There's people with degrees working in the likes of McDonalds.

I need to see output. 8 councils workers with Phds filling in 1 pothole wouldn't exactly impress me much.

A huge proportion of council work is now sub-contracted to the private sector.

Paulzx

Rightwing wrote: »

As the ad goes ' because he was worth it'

That's really not original anymore

noodler

Godge wrote: »

not this rubbish again.

It certainly isn't rubbish and I wish people like yourself and PS Trade Unions leaders would stop calling it as such.

We can wait for a newer EU survey to be done to take account of the wage cuts but the last research reports by the ESRI and ECB found Irish PS wages were higher than the average in Europe.

When the above surveys were done the CSO average weekly salary series disparity was still evident.

barneystinson

noodler wrote: »

It certainly isn't rubbish and I wish people like yourself and PS Trade Unions leaders would stop calling it as such.

We can wait for a newer EU survey to be done to take account of the wage cuts but the last research reports by the ESRI and ECB found Irish PS wages were higher than the average in Europe.

When the above surveys were done the CSO average weekly salary series disparity was still evident.

I can't speak for Godge, but the rubbish part for me, is the use of such a broad-based average to create a tabloidesque disparity, by comparing 1.8m apples with 300k oranges.

Show me a category of PS worker who are paid 48% (or whatever was quoted) more than a suitable private sector equivalent. And then show me the next, and the next.

noodler

barneystinson wrote: »

I can't speak for Godge, but the rubbish part for me, is the use of such a broad-based average to create a tabloidesque disparity, by comparing 1.8m apples with 300k oranges.

Show me a category of PS worker who are paid 48% (or whatever was quoted) more than a suitable private sector equivalent. And then show me the next, and the next.

Its only rubbish if you have something to fear by the comparison.

I'm wary of any argument that places the work public sector work as so unique or special that it alone would possibly justify such a disparity.

I am not looking to get into another debate on the figures but simply labelling them as rubbish amounts to sweeping the issue under the carpet.

barneystinson

noodler wrote: »

Its only rubbish if you have something to fear by the comparison.

I'm wary of any argument that places the work public sector work as so unique or special that it alone would possibly justify such a disparity.

I am not looking to get into another debate on the figures but simply labelling them as rubbish amounts to sweeping the issue under the carpet.

Not at all, I understand what you mean.

But firing out that headline stat as an argument instead of actually using a figure (and God knows they've been posted here often enough) that takes account of the fact that every minimum wage job in the country is in the private sector, is rubbish from an argument point of view.

I mean, you don't think that the average PS worker (whatever that is) is overpaid by 48%, do you?

ezra_pound

noodler wrote: »

Its only rubbish if you have something to fear by the comparison.

I'm wary of any argument that places the work public sector work as so unique or special that it alone would possibly justify such a disparity.

I am not looking to get into another debate on the figures but simply labelling them as rubbish amounts to sweeping the issue under the carpet.

The health and education sectors make up a huge proportion of the public sector. If you fail to see that these are very specialised sectors that should command high average pay levels then you really aren't the kind of person I'd be seeking an opinion from on economics or pay levels or any related topics.

Your last paragraph is indecipherable but I pick up from it that you don't want to debate the issue-just determine that PS wages are too high and should be cut. That's not really acceptable in a forum thread discussing PS wage cuts. It's about debating that issue.

barneystinson

By the way, I've said before I'd welcome having my pay suitably benchmarked, because then I'd get my pay increased.

Plenty of others in the PS wouldn't but then some would.

But the process would be horrendously difficult and expensive to execute and to maintain, since it couldn't just be a one-off if we go back to benchmarking. So the people who want it, need to realise it will have a cost, and the level of benefit would be uncertain.

Rightwing

ezra_pound wrote: »

The health and education sectors make up a huge proportion of the public sector. If you fail to see that these are very specialised sectors that should command high average pay levels then you really aren't the kind of person I'd be seeking an opinion from on economics or pay levels or any related topics.

Your last paragraph is indecipherable but I pick up from it that you don't want to debate the issue-just determine that PS wages are too high and should be cut. That's not really acceptable in a forum thread discussing PS wage cuts. It's about debating that issue.

Teaching isn't exactly what I'd call rocket science. What have you to do?.. study the challenging Arts in college..1 of the degrees known to mankind. Salary should command max. average industrial salary.

Godge

Rightwing wrote: »

Teaching isn't exactly what I'd call rocket science. What have you to do?.. study the challenging Arts in college..1 of the degrees known to mankind. Salary should command max. average industrial salary.

Unbelievable level of ignorance.

Can you name one country in the world where the maximum teacher salary is equivalent to the average industrial salary in that country? Apart from North Korea, that is.

noodler

ezra_pound wrote: »

The health and education sectors make up a huge proportion of the public sector. If you fail to see that these are very specialised sectors that should command high average pay levels then you really aren't the kind of person I'd be seeking an opinion from on economics or pay levels or any related topics.

Your last paragraph is indecipherable but I pick up from it that you don't want to debate the issue-just determine that PS wages are too high and should be cut. That's not really acceptable in a forum thread discussing PS wage cuts. It's about debating that issue.

Ugh. Just stop.

This is the sort of self-righteous crap you have to put up with from insiders on this thread.

Pointed generalisations, pathetic assumptions regarding your opinions, some sort of generic, putrid snide remark about my level of education and expertise etc.

You haven't said anything of any substance and yet you want to pretend you are 'debating'.

Rightwing

noodler wrote: »

Ugh. Just stop.

This is the sort of self-righteous crap you have to put up with from insiders on this thread.

Pointed generalisations, pathetic assumptions regarding your opinions, some sort of generic, putrid snide remark about my level of education and expertise etc.

You haven't said anything of any substance and yet you want to pretend you are 'debating'.

They don't want to listen to logical debate, 1 called me a racist earlier. :rolleyes:

barneystinson

Rightwing wrote: »

They don't want to listen to logical debate, 1 called me a racist earlier. :rolleyes:

You've very little interest in logical debate either to be fair.

Any joy on finding me the PS job categories that are 48% overpaid relative to their private sector equivalent, or do you accept that there is absolutely no value at all, from a "logical debate" point of view in the headline stat you quoted earlier?

ezra_pound

noodler wrote: »

Ugh. Just stop.

This is the sort of self-righteous crap you have to put up with from insiders on this thread.

Pointed generalisations, pathetic assumptions regarding your opinions, some sort of generic, putrid snide remark about my level of education and expertise etc.

You haven't said anything of any substance and yet you want to pretend you are 'debating'.

OK what sectors of the economy would you expect to see a higher average level of pay and expertise than education and health?

The legal sector. Yes similar
Pharma. No I'd be surprised if average expertise levels were as high
It/ tech. No
Agriculture. No


Etc. Etc.

Education isn't just primary school teachers. It's research labs in universities, lecturers etc etc.
Level of expertise massive.