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Silence around menstruation

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I have no problem discussing my periods but just never really have much cause to do so. I don't really see an issue where it would come up as its not something that is really that big a deal to me. I have a period, I bleed once a month, its no big deal.

    I don't buy into the whole conspiracy of silence around periods thing, I just think its not something many women feel the need to discuss.
    UpCork wrote: »
    I have no problem talking about it if it comes up in conversation - it doesn't embarrass me. After all, it's a natural function. However, I probably wouldn't be the first person to bring it up in conversation, unless I was talking to a close friend and I mentioned I was feeling under the weather etc for that very reason.
    I am not the of person (and believe me I know these kind of people) who feel it necessary to announce it on a Monday morning when they walk into the office.

    Same here. It is what is, a natural bodily function. I don't feel the need to discuss my periods with anyone except as others have said, mentioning why I wasn't feeling great, if talking to a close friend.
    Or with my doctor, if there was a problem of some sort.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Thanks for that story Tug a war tampon I felt a bit out there on a limb describing reactions no one else seemed to be having. Also what a good friend you are putting yourself to so much trouble to save your friend from embarrassment, really kind and really funny all at the same time. I dont know why the images wont open and I did try to sort it out but dont seem to be able to and now cant find the images again, sigh!

    I think you are being very honest in your observations of youself Tug of war tampon being grossed out by blood in different situations and looking at the different reactions you have to bodily fluids coming from different parts of the body and from different people. I do think we observe the truth of this in ourselves by looking at our own reactions to menstrual blood rather than by purely analysing how we mentally think about it.
    Human blood can be seen as heroic, scary, repulsive, pitiful, interesting, horrifying, etc depending on situations and how it is presented. For example the image of a warrior wearing bandages with some blood seeping through could be very simular in appearance to menstrual blood seeping through trousers and yet both blood soaked materials would probably be reacted to differently.

    One of the ways we come up against our own physical reaction to menstrual blood is in how we react to either ourselves or our partner bleeding during sex. Some people wont have sex while bleeding or wont have certain kinds of sex.

    Three different quotes on menstruation illustrating some of our relationships to blood women and sex,
    Germain Greer says "“If you think you are emancipated, you might consider the idea of tasting your own menstrual blood - if it makes you sick, you've got a long way to go, baby.”
    Mokokoma Mokhonoana says “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
    Janette Winterson says "“When she bleeds the smells I know change colour. There is iron in her soul on those days. She smells like a gun.”

    In the feminist theory of the 70s and 80s there was quite a bit of work done on looking at attitudes to menstrual blood and associations with it ranging from womens uncleanliness, unreliability, mood swings, hysteria etc on the one hand and then looking at ideas about womens power as well as links with lunar cylces, water, the earth and fertility. Some of the early menstrual conceptual art and actions comes from the 70s and 80s.
    If I key in Menstruation into Amazon I come up with 1,647 books on the subject ranging from books aimed at explaining menstruation to children, to women as a target market and how business both shapes and creates attitudes to menstruation, menstruation from a feminist spiritual perspective, New Age medicine and Mainstream medical advice and lots of womens analysis and research . So its not like no one talks about menstruation or that the subject does not have sufficient material within it to be the subject of conversation writing studies or research in fact its the very way we talk about it, or dont thats a real interesting part of issue. Its also interesting the attitudes to women and that women have of themselves when they stop bleeding but thats a connected but other issue I suppose.

    The book called The Wise Wound was first published in the 70s and has been through several printings http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wise-Wound-Penelope-Shuttle/dp/0714534056
    A more recent publication on the subject is New Blood: Third-Wave Feminism and the Politics of Menstruation published in 2010 http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Blood-Third-wave-Feminism-Menstruation/dp/0813547547/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411662944&sr=1-1&keywords=new+blood+third+wave+feminism
    "New Blood" offers a fresh interdisciplinary look at feminism-in-flux. For over three decades, menstrual activists have questioned the safety and necessity of feminine care products while contesting menstruation as a deeply entrenched taboo. Chris Bobel shows how a little-known yet enduring force in the feminist health, environmental, and consumer rights movements lays bare tensions between second- and third-wave feminisms and reveals a complicated story of continuity and change within the women's movement. Through her critical ethnographic lens, Bobel focuses on debates central to feminist thought (including the utility of the category 'gender') and challenges to building an inclusive feminist movement. Filled with personal narratives, playful visuals, and original humor, "New Blood" reveals middle-aged progressives communing in Red Tents, urban punks and artists 'culture jamming' commercial menstrual products in their zines and sketch comedy, queer anarchists practicing DIY health care, African American health educators espousing 'holistic womb health', and hopeful mothers refusing to pass on the shame to their pubescent daughters.

    Here is a playful little link to make up for some of the images I couldnt post
    http://www.tamponcrafts.com/heart.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 500 ✭✭✭indigo twist


    Ambersky wrote:
    Germain Greer says "“If you think you are emancipated, you might consider the idea of tasting your own menstrual blood - if it makes you sick, you've got a long way to go, baby

    Yeah ... No.

    I absolutely do not need to taste my own period in order to feel emancipated (serious wtf?!?!)

    Should men need to taste their own semen in order to feel free ...?


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ambersky wrote: »
    Here is a playful little link to make up for some of the images I couldnt post
    http://www.tamponcrafts.com/heart.html

    Bloody tampon earrings! I can imagine showing up to work with those little danglers :)

    I'm not chatty about periods in the same way I'm not chatty about any other bodily functions unless I've something particular going on, but I've never felt disgust at them. The blood doesn't disgust me, the other changes to my functions don't disgust me and I'm not ashamed or embarrassed to buy products from male cashiers. I generally don't give them a second thought other than to curse the gods for the first day or so if I'm having a bad month and I'm low on solpadeine :)

    I went to a girls boarding school, and being in close proximity to one another 24/7 meant a great deal of synchronicity of cycles in our house. The attitudes of most were pragmatic and practical, with a few real sufferers. There was anything BUT silence about menstruation in that environment, and periods were happily referred to by every name under the sun, the more graphic the better :).

    There were two girls I remember who would hide a tampon up their sleeve to go to the bathroom, as if it's very existence, never mind it's function, was shameful. They never spoke or joked about it. It struck me even then how uptight, repressed and vaguely shamed those girls were about a normal bodily function, even in an environment where literally everyone else had periods and it wasn't a big taboo.

    Even though I've no real interest in talking about menstruation - it's just not that interesting tbh - that kind of thing strikes me as a tragedy, to find disgust and/or shame in your own body for one week in four. Hopefully they grew out of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    I don't think disgust is the same as shame, although some people are using them interchangeably. I'm not grossed out by my period but I do not see the point of waving about used tampons like it's something to be proud about either! I don't need to wear used toilet paper jewellery to prove I'm not ashamed of defecating. I don't fart in front of everyone same as I don't wave a tampon around when I go into a public bathroom. Discretion is nothing to be ashamed of.


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  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Malari wrote: »
    I don't think disgust is the same as shame, although some people are using them interchangeably. I'm not grossed out by my period but I do not see the point of waving about used tampons like it's something to be proud about either! I don't need to wear used toilet paper jewellery to prove I'm not ashamed of defecating. I don't fart in front of everyone same as I don't wave a tampon around when I go into a public bathroom. Discretion is nothing to be ashamed of.

    I don't know that many women feel either disgust or shame anymore - and they shouldn't. I think the perceived silence is just manners and discretion about a private matter.

    The only person I know who reacts to those Always adverts is a man over 65, and he's a victim of his time when it comes to matters like that.

    I think mothers should try make sure their girls have no problem with their feelings about their menstruating bodies, and I think they should promote the normality of it to their sons too. Especially boys with no sisters whose first experience of dealing with periods might be with an intimate partner. It doesn't all have to be lived publicly to be seen as normal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Why oh why oh why would anyone want to wear a pair of tampon earrings? :eek:

    I don't get this extreme feminism where to say you don't like periods is seen as an offence against the sisterhood. Its just one of those things we do, I don't see the big deal. Men don't have conversations about having to shave everyday and yet that's not seen as shame or fear or anything negative, why should women feel that way about periods. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Vogera says
    I'm really glad to hear there are so many people who don't have an issue with talking about periods.

    Im really glad too so Ill say a bit more. :)
    First a question, do men not know the taste of their own semen. Honest question. I do know the taste of blood, dont most people know the taste of blood, even if its just from a bit of bleeding after brushing your teeth or sucking a wound and do women not know the taste of semen, Id guess lots do. Is it just your own blood or semen that's not to be tasted. Were getting into what goes on in sex and how people react to bodily fluids, if you cant taste your own bodily fluids how could you expect someone else to? Maybe its an advantage to be gay being faced with someone whos body has simular fluids to your own not that gay or bi women dont sometimes have issues around this too but maybe we are faced with it a bit more directly. Do heterosexuals keep it that separate, women taste sperm and men taste blood, or do they? I think they are valid questions.

    You do all know that was not blood on those ear ring tampons, it showed pictures of how to apply the paint and all, the earrings were made of cotton on a string with red paint. Again the site was poking fun at and inviting us to look at our reactions in a fun way similar to the game in the OP. Guess not everyone gets the joke or sees the fun in it, but lots of people do.

    I thought this was the most questionable quote Mokokoma Mokhonoana a male philosopher saying that “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
    But so far thats not the quote people feel so strongly about or even show enough interest in that they post their reactions to it. Theres more reaction to tasting menstrual blood and the idea that that may be liberating or to wearing cotton earings soaked in red paint that look like tampons.

    And nobody is saying you have to like periods extreme feminists or not . Well maybe the advertising industry but again thats another story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Ambersky wrote: »
    Im really glad too so Ill say a bit more. :)
    First a question, do men not know the taste of their own semen. Honest question. I do know the taste of blood, dont most people know the taste of blood, even if its just from a bit of bleeding after brushing your teeth or sucking a wound and do women not know the taste of semen, Id guess lots do. Is it just your own blood or semen that's not to be tasted. Were getting into what goes on in sex and how people react to bodily fluids, if you cant taste your own bodily fluids how could you expect someone else to? Maybe its an advantage to be gay being faced with someone whos body has simular fluids to your own not that gay or bi women dont sometimes have issues around this too but maybe we are faced with it a bit more directly. Do heterosexuals keep it that separate, women taste sperm and men taste blood, or do they? I think they are valid questions.

    No man I've ever been with has tasted blood in the way you mean. And I certainly don't expect boyfriends to taste their own semen just so I feel equal.
    Ambersky wrote: »
    You do all know that was not blood on those ear ring tampons, it showed pictures of how to apply the paint and all, the earrings were made of cotton on a string with red paint. Again the site was poking fun at and inviting us to look at our reactions in a fun way similar to the game in the OP. Guess not everyone gets the joke or sees the fun in it, but lots of people do.

    Guess not. I certainly don't find it amusing. Just a bit distasteful. What's the point?
    Ambersky wrote: »
    I thought this was the most questionable quote Mokokoma Mokhonoana a male philosopher saying that “Periods are a period when nature forces prostitutes to go on leave.”
    But so far thats not the quote people feel so strongly about or even show enough interest in that they post their reactions to it. Theres more reaction to tasting menstrual blood and the idea that that may be liberating or to wearing cotton earings soaked in red paint that look like tampons.

    And nobody is saying you have to like periods extreme feminists or not . Well maybe the advertising industry but again thats another story.

    I don't really understand the point you are trying to make here. What is it about that quote that you think deserves a reaction? I didn't comment because I didn't find it interesting, profound or particularly insightful. :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Not to be embarrassed by periods it doesn't mean you have to be obsessed with them. Period is actually fairly disgusting looking and it stinks. I don't have any desire discussing other bodily functions so I don't know why I should this one.

    Period art is for me in the same category as art involving urine and poo. Art doesn't have to be plesant, it is there to provoke a reaction and make us think. However our reaction doesn't have to be positive.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    I think a couple of people are protesting about how comfortable they are on the subject of menstruation a little too much. If you dont like talking about it, or posting about it or reading about it, then dont, you dont have to.
    I do like talking about it obviously but I think maybe I should stop now, Ive said quite a bit and given a few links or suggestions for other area to look to if you want to explore the issue further.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Ambersky wrote: »
    I think a couple of people are protesting about how comfortable they are on the subject of menstruation a little too much. Maybe I should stop talking about it.

    I am not comfortable in the same way as I am not comfortable discussing poo. I have no problem buying toilet paper or tampons but I have also no desire running around waving used toilet paper, I would be embarrassed by smell of sweat so I really don't know why menstruation should be any different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Yes I can see that. Theres no difficulty or silencing here and nothing to discuss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Ambersky wrote: »
    Yes I can see that. Theres no difficulty here and nothing to discuss.
    Actually there is plenty to discuss when something doesn't feel right, to inform yourself about differtent problems, about pregnancy, not to be embarrassed to go to the doctor when needed. But I am not a woman because I have menstruation so l really don't know why it should be some bloody badge of honour.


  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have a matter of fact attitude to my body and body functions, The thing that bothered my about periods would be why is it lasting more than 7 days when all the information I was given said they lasted a week ( admittedly this was from a free book my mother sent off for from a packet of sanitary towels ). That was a very long time ago now :)
    How come sanitary towels and tampons are not better, how come they sometimes leak no matter how you use them, why hasn't someone invented a better product. I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.


  • Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I have a matter of fact attitude to my body and body functions, The thing that bothered my about periods would be why is it lasting more than 7 days when all the information I was given said they lasted a week ( admittedly this was from a free book my mother sent off for from a packet of sanitary towels ). That was a very long time ago now :)
    How come sanitary towels and tampons are not better, how come they sometimes leak no matter how you use them, why hasn't someone invented a better product. I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.

    Mooncup. Available in Boots. :)

    http://www.mooncup.co.uk/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    mariaalice said
    I have never discussed these things with anyone because well its not the sort of issue you would bring up in conversation.

    Thats exactly the point. All the rest of the stuff is just raising the issue, getting people to look at their own feelings, get past some stuff, bring it out into the open make it a topic and maybe even learn a little.
    Menstruation is not a comfortable topic, it does get relegated to the doctors surgery and kept safely medicalised, not that health isnt a very important factor but its not the only one.

    How comfortable you are or not will have its most obvious impact and expression in how you feel having sex while having a period and in how you have sex at that time .
    Its an issue most women have had to deal with often privately in her own head perhaps, not feeling comfortable bringing it up in conversation.

    Theres no dictate that you have to be fully comfortable with anything or that you have to like everything just being open enough to listen to people who are comfortable is enough.

    http://www.womenshealthmag.com/sex-and-relationships/sex-while-menstruating
    Theres some more ideas and perspectives here
    We've learned that our periods should be private.

    But even if you're nervous about it, your guy is likely unfazed by the idea of having sex during your period. According to a survey on MensHealth.com, it's women, not men, who close up shop during that time of the month. More than three-quarters of the guys polled said they'd love to have period sex, although 54 percent would do it only with a serious girlfriend or wife

    http://www.xojane.com/sex/6-very-real-concerns-about-period-sex-how-to-deal
    Like I said, I was thoroughly skeeved out by the idea of period sex because, you know, we live in a culture of bodily shame that makes us all believe that our periods render us toxic waste plants of vile putridity. But this is not the case! Periods are kind of not really that gross! They are just things our bodies do!

    And if we’re being perfectly honest, sex is kind of gross when you think about how it’s two sweaty bodies bumping into each other until they both emit fluids. So…if you’re OK with sex, you should probably be OK with sex plus periods.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I will openly admit sex during periods is not for me, except maybe the last day. I hate dirt on sheets, I have to wash myself after any sex anyway because I can smell sperm or sweat and I think periods are really smelly. I'm uncomfortable around people with incontinence issues. And while I have no problem changing nappies, I prefer if my partner changes bandages and deals with any kind of skin or teeth issues on our kids or dogs. I would find a sex with previously sweaty man complete turn off. I got a bit less anal over the years because I can actually fall asleep without having shower in the evening. And I must be absolutely exhausted for not to remove make up before going to bed.

    So yes I can freely admit I have issues with sex during periods but it's not just periods.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Sex during periods is not for me either. I actually just remembered having this conversation with a bunch of girlfriends when I was about 20, so it's not something I'm only comfortable talking about later in life.

    I brought it up with my boyfriend and he'd prefer not to have sex during my period either. We talked about the details! Like Meeeeh, I dislike the mess and the smell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Tbh I find it weird that people find it weird that girls don't talk much about their periods. What's there to talk about? Don't tend to talk much about bowel movements or ear wax or runny noses in detail either from what I can tell...

    :confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    My ex would happily have had period sex, but it's not for me; there's the issue with blood on the sheets and I couldn't really feel anything when we tried it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,960 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Towel on the bed or sex in the shower. Sorted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Towel on the bed or sex in the shower. Sorted.

    That's just the mess sorted for sheets. It doesn't really address any of the other issues people might have with period sex.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I've had period sex a few times, neither of us liked it. It's just too wet and the intensity of it isn't as great for either of us. It's not the yuck factor because that can be dealt with easily enough, it just doesn't feel good.


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