Silence around menstruation

Vojera

I came across this little game today called Tampon Run. It's a simple game that two women wrote for a programme they were part of, and it involves running and throwing tampons at people :pac:

The blurb at the start interested me, though, where they say that there is a culture of not speaking about menstruation, despite the fact that half the population do it for a significant portion of their lives, and things like violence seem to be much less taboo than what is, after all, a perfectly normal bodily function.

This also brought me back to a conversation I had with a friend a few weeks ago about the dreadful sex conversation we had with our respective parents (just one conversation to cover your whole life and the rest was done at school), and learning a tiny amount about periods from our mothers. We recalled filling in some details from our collective experience during girls-only huddles on the school yard and the realisation that at other times of the month there might be different types of mucus and not knowing if that was normal but not really knowing if it was okay to ask.

Even now, as an almost-thirty year old who feels fairly open about that sort of thing, I'm aware that not all my friends are comfortable or able to talk about things their sexual organs do and who would even be embarrassed if someone saw a sanitary towel or tampon in their handbag.

I was wondering what your experiences are and if you encounter the same things in your life. Maybe you feel it's just something that shouldn't be spoken about, maybe it's no big deal to you at all, but I think it would be interesting to hear each others thoughts on it.

miamee

It's not something I'd talk about to anyone very often just because it doesn't come up in the conversation unless I am feeling like crap/incredibly tired/not drinking when out because of having my period, then I might mention it. It is something that I might talk to friends or my sister or mother about though and have done in the past. In fact my mother was asking me do I get painful periods the other day as my two sisters have started to get them worse than they used to (how that would effect me I don't know ). So we do talk about it (just not in front of my dad or brother!).

At my age (36) there is little I'd want to be asking advice about unless something was going awry - in which case I'd be off to the docs really

Sauve

I don't talk about it the same way as I don't have conversations with my friends about our toilet habits. There's no need for it.
If I'm doubled over with cramps or cranky with pmt I might mention it in passing, but that's it really.

Ectoplasm

Vojera wrote: »

The blurb at the start interested me, though, where they say that there is a culture of not speaking about menstruation, despite the fact that half the population do it for a significant portion of their lives, and things like violence seem to be much less taboo than what is, after all, a perfectly normal bodily function.

I think there is a kind of false premise at work here. Violence is discussed because it is extraordinary - having periods isn't. I started around age 12, I'm 35 now so that is 20+ years of the same thing happening every month. It is boring and routine and as such there isn't much to talk about.

As others said, if I am feeling particularly moody or crampy I might mention it to whomever I'm with at the time, or if something out of the ordinary did happen then I'd be talking about that, but it would be because it is out of the ordinary.

DuchessduJour

From the perspective of someone with crippling endometriosis, which affects my life in an extremely negative way, I definitely agree that there's a slightly bizarre silence around menstruation. I often find myself feeling self conscious and embarrassed when I try to explain to friends what endometriosis is, how it affects me and impacts on my life, and what I can do about it. And that is in no small part because I personally feel like it isn't really considered acceptable to talk about periods, ovulation and all related things. Even though it's so normal, even though so many people have periods and cramps and bleed every so often. So yeah, I definitely think there's something to it! That said, I remember being so nervous telling my best friend about it because I was worried he would think it was gross somehow and I knew even then that it was mostly in my head (plus he reacted so well and has been an invaluable source of support and love, both before and after I told him). But I guess it was in my head for a reason. And I certainly have had negative reactions to talking about menstruation with people, even in the context of a conversation about sex that was quite detailed and graphic, so I found that a little surprising.


Also, I love the game :pac: My high score is 431, if anyone wants to take me on

chuckles30

As someone else mentioned here...it's a bit like talking about going to the toilet...there's no need to talk about it. Maybe I've been reasonably lucky that I don't suffer particularly badly so therefore I don't feel the need to discuss it widely.

Ambersky

Ah yes how to talk about the silence. If there is silence around an issue you will usually get a lot of "What silence, I dont hear any silence !" kind of thing but of course silence doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue, so how to find out if there is one.

Once again I think shame is one of the key markers for there being something people dont want to or are conditioned not to look at.
So where do we see any evidence of shame around periods, we see it in the hiding of pads or tampons, the code words used about it, the idea that men are not to hear talk about it, the secrecy around the reason we are sometimes in pain at work or in public, the designation of women as being unclean and untouchable in some cultures, the feelings of disgust of menstrual blood over blood coming from a wound from any other part of the body and regarding periods as something dirty. There is a lot of evidence for shame and silence and thats not saying everyone acts in these ways around periods but there is evidence for these attitudes in many cultures.

Im having some difficulty posting images but some feminist artists have been doing work on this issue. Artists often like to work on issues or with images, articles, substances that others like to hide because whats not said, silenced or hidden often contains much power and can reveal more about ourselves and our inner spaces than the image considered fit for public display.

For her current exhibition at the Center of Culture and Health in Quillota, Chile, entitled "Cloths," the artist put 90 used sanitary rags on display, each embroidered with words like "destroyed" and "production." Each embroidered rag is placed in an embroidery hoop and hung up, surrounded by dangling rotten apples symbolizing ovulation.

While some were disgusted by Úbeda's choice of material, others saw poignancy in the medium. "Male blood is celebrated for being brave while ours is a shame," one visitor told the Daily Mail. "This won't change until we release our body as the first stage of political struggle."

It's been over 40 years since Judy Chicago introduced "Menstruation Bathroom" (1972), a piece where used tampons were displayed inside a trash can, and 38 years since Carolee Schneemann read from a long sheet of paper she pulled out of her vagina in the feminist performance piece, "Interior Scroll," but a woman's blood can still shake up the gallery scene even today.

http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/menstrual-blood-art-carina-ubeda_n_3499027.html

Jack B. Badd

Vojera wrote: »

I came across this little game today called Tampon Run. It's a simple game that two women wrote for a programme they were part of, and it involves running and throwing tampons at people :pac:

Both myself & the boyfriend are playing this now

indigo twist

I really don't feel that there's an issue regarding silence about it.

Countless times, I've been asked by random girls in the loo, or by colleagues or acquaintances that I don't know very well, if I have a spare tampon. No embarrassment or awkwardness on either side.

If something odd was going on with my periods, I'd certainly have no problem with chatting with my friends about it, maybe see if they'd ever experienced similar. We often chat about methods of contraception etc.

But as for directly talking about menstruation - so long as my periods arrive on time and without unusual pain, why bother talking about it? It's just normal. I don't talk about how I breathe, or how fast my toenails grow, or about my bowel motions ... similarly, so long as my periods are normal, I feel no need to chat about them.

Raminahobbin

It annoys me when I feel like I can't talk about something with my close friends, so I tend to discuss most things with them. I studied in an area when menstruation and all associated symptoms are important topics, so my friends are well used to me talking about the nitty gritty (clots and all :P ) and I like to think I've made it something we're comfortable discussing.

We might not talk about it unless something had changed in terms of symptoms but we tend to always tell each other when we've started ours. We like when we're in sync if there was anything even slightly off with them in terms of mood/quality of blood etc, they will tell me and I will tell them.

The furthest I would discuss it with someone I wasnt particularly close to would be to mention I have them though! No need for more info, but I'd happily engage a full discussion if they were interested.

kylith

Ambersky wrote: »

Ah yes how to talk about the silence. If there is silence around an issue you will usually get a lot of "What silence, I dont hear any silence !" kind of thing but of course silence doesn't necessarily mean there is an issue, so how to find out if there is one.

Once again I think shame is one of the key markers for there being something people dont want to or are conditioned not to look at.
So where do we see any evidence of shame around periods, we see it in the hiding of pads or tampons, the code words used about it, the idea that men are not to hear talk about it, the secrecy around the reason we are sometimes in pain at work or in public, the designation of women as being unclean and untouchable in some cultures, the feelings of disgust of menstrual blood over blood coming from a wound from any other part of the body and regarding periods as something dirty. There is a lot of evidence for shame and silence and thats not saying everyone acts in these ways around periods but there is evidence for these attitudes in many cultures.

Im having some difficulty posting images but some feminist artists have been doing work on this issue. Artists often like to work on issues or with images, articles, substances that others like to hide because whats not said, silenced or hidden often contains much power and can reveal more about ourselves and our inner spaces than the image considered fit for public display.


http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/menstrual-blood-art-carina-ubeda_n_3499027.html

I agree with you that it's ridiculous that some women won't go to a male cashier to buy pads, and that some men refuse to buy them for their partners.

That exhibition just sounds revolting, not because of periods, but because it's unsanitary. I wouldn't want to go to an exhibition of bloody bandages either, for the same reason.

Morag

Yes there can be a lot of silence about it, something I have tried to change with my own teens.
51% of the worlds population are women and for as along as there have been women over millinea there has bee menstruation.

Vojera

EMF2010 wrote: »

I think there is a kind of false premise at work here. Violence is discussed because it is extraordinary - having periods isn't. I started around age 12, I'm 35 now so that is 20+ years of the same thing happening every month. It is boring and routine and as such there isn't much to talk about.

I agree with you that violence is extraordinary while having periods is not, but I'd be of the opinion that in fact it is so ordinary that there's no reason for such a taboo around it.

And it's not like I'm suggesting we all sit around with our journals detailing all our cramps and and draw charts together detailing our cycles, or that it's something we should talk about every day, or even every period, but I think it's sad that there are women who would be too ashamed to say to a friend "Hey, the brand of sanitary towel I'm using doesn't seem to suit me, do you have a recommendation?" or to use any vocabulary other than "women's troubles" or, as mentioned above, to go to a male cashier to buy a completely ordinary and mundane product.

I remember a Tampax ad years ago where they had introduced a brightly coloured wrapper and the gist of the ad was that a woman and her male friend were eating sweets from similar wrappers, a tampon rolled out of the woman's bag and there was a bit of an "Oh ho ho, he nearly opened that thinking it was a sweet and saw that you had a tampon in your bag!" I know that's going back a fair while, but the message I got from that was that this was something to be hidden - no one should know you're having your period, nor should they find any related paraphernalia in your possession. Ads are definitely improving in that respect but I would also hope that with our generation becoming parents, the next crop of kids won't feel the same stigmas that a lot of women in previous generations have felt and still feel.

sullivlo

Sauve wrote: »

I don't talk about it the same way as I don't have conversations with my friends about our toilet habits. There's no need for it.
If I'm doubled over with cramps or cranky with pmt I might mention it in passing, but that's it really.

I talk about poo to my friends. Now I feel weird :pac:

In all seriousness though - I don't see the need to talk to people about my period, in the same way I don't feel the need to talk to people about breathing, coughing, farting, sneezing or any other normal bodily function. Unless they don't work or malfunction - then I will ask for advice from friends or doctors.

If I try a new brand / type of sanitary wear and like it, I'll tell my friends. If I need advice on something related to tampons, I'll ask my friends. In the same way that I would discuss if I had a chesty cough and was wondering which cough bottle they had used. I don't avoid going to male cashiers to buy tampons.

diveout

It's not just menstruation, western culture is neurotic when it comes to talking about the body.

Never understood the taboos myself but...

worded

A distant male aquantance of mine said he doesn't trust women. Anything that bleeds for 4-6'days every month and doesn't die isn't to be trusted.

Also I've heard there are two schools of thought as to the way women tend to argue and both are wrong.

Oh relax, I'm only bloody joking ....

Grabs jacket and runs to the hills

Ambersky

Kylith says
That exhibition just sounds revolting, not because of periods, but because it's unsanitary. I wouldn't want to go to an exhibition of bloody bandages either, for the same reason.

I think your reaction is simular to that of many people and is something artists are interested in. Of course art is not always trying to be pretty or decorative or even pleasant to look at, there is a long history of unpleasantness in art. Again artists are often interested in looking at and indeed exposing things we dont like to look at, things we hide, things we are disgusted by or are ashamed of. One idea can be that we are sometimes unaware of our feelings around hidden things untill we have them put up in front of us and then our first reaction can be to want to put it away again, irritation at it being there in the first place and maybe even anger at the person who exposed it. In this case we are looking not only at the art work we are looking even more at the reactions to the art, we are looking at ourselves.

There is also a long history of blood in art.

Blood in art can be associated with many feelings besides disgust it be associated with feelings of fear of pity and of admiration. Looking at our differing reactions to blood in different situations and in different presentations is also interesting.

Here on forums like this we are often trying to work out ideas in words in our heads and in print here on screen. Art or even just visual images can stimulate more of our senses and sometimes we can have a physical reaction to something that our intellect does not anticipate it can literally shake up what we thought we knew about ourselves or how we think of the world.

Here are a couple of images of blood that I would imagine stimulate differing responses and its the why of that that is interesting. I hope I can post them.
Nope seem to be having problems in that area and have tried for ages will try again later

indigo twist

Isn't that going a little bit off-topic ...?

Many of us who are perfectly comfortable talking about periods simply have zero interest in seeing menstrual blood (or any blood) as part of art. In fact, many of us have no interest whatsoever in what is considered "art" by some.

I don't need to look at another woman's used pads to be comfortable with the concept of menstruation.

Ectoplasm

Vojera wrote: »

I agree with you that violence is extraordinary while having periods is not, but I'd be of the opinion that in fact it is so ordinary that there's no reason for such a taboo around it.

And it's not like I'm suggesting we all sit around with our journals detailing all our cramps and and draw charts together detailing our cycles, or that it's something we should talk about every day, or even every period, but I think it's sad that there are women who would be too ashamed to say to a friend "Hey, the brand of sanitary towel I'm using doesn't seem to suit me, do you have a recommendation?" or to use any vocabulary other than "women's troubles" or, as mentioned above, to go to a male cashier to buy a completely ordinary and mundane product.

I remember a Tampax ad years ago where they had introduced a brightly coloured wrapper and the gist of the ad was that a woman and her male friend were eating sweets from similar wrappers, a tampon rolled out of the woman's bag and there was a bit of an "Oh ho ho, he nearly opened that thinking it was a sweet and saw that you had a tampon in your bag!" I know that's going back a fair while, but the message I got from that was that this was something to be hidden - no one should know you're having your period, nor should they find any related paraphernalia in your possession. Ads are definitely improving in that respect but I would also hope that with our generation becoming parents, the next crop of kids won't feel the same stigmas that a lot of women in previous generations have felt and still feel.

I guess I just don't agree that there is that much of a taboo about it. Just because something isn't talked about doesn't necessarily mean it is taboo. I for one have never felt stigmatised because of my period, which I call a period btw. I have no issues talking about it, or purchasing sanitary towels or tampons from a male cashier and nor do any of my friends, previous boyfriends included.

As for the Tampax ad, I genuinely think that it has more to do with trying to come up with some kind of unique selling point! Lets be honest, there isn't a whole lot to say about them.

I'm sure there are some people who are uncomfortable with talking about periods alright but I really don't feel like it is a societal taboo.

Tarzana

I guess I don't see why someone would discuss it. Periods are truly gross and I just endure them, I have no wish to discuss them. They're an unsavoury bodily function like a few others that don't get talked about too much. But this is just me, maybe others do want to talk about 'em?

EDIT: And yeah, I would get embarrassed if someone spotted an ST or tampon in my bag, it's like carrying loo roll around, I do carry them but they are well hidden!

EDIT II: But I freely mentioned period-related stuff to friends, just not in any detail. Nobody wants to hear about that.

Ambersky

Our comfort levels and our feelings about menstruation are not only expressed or measured by our ability to speak about the issue it is also expressed by our feelings about how hidden or visible we think it should be.
The OP linked to a game that involved throwing tampons around and having fun doing something I would argue is taboo by making menstruation visible in public. I take it that part of the fun of the game is an acknowledgement of a revulsion people often feel about period blood. I would argue that there is a different reaction to period blood than to blood coming out from other parts of the body.

Blood is given different attributes in different situations. Often menstrual blood is connected with cleanliness or dirtyness. In some cultures this connection to the dirtyness of menstrual blood makes women unclean while they are having their period. We may think that we are very far removed from this idea but if you look at ads for "sanitary" napkins or tampons they often reveal much about a discomfort about the reality of periods reference needing to feel fresh, clean, free, and avoid referencing blood or even the colour red.

I dont seem to be able to upload images so I will link to some as talking about reactions to different kinds of blood and menstrual blood in particular only goes so far.

Below is a link to two different kinds of blood stained material. Do you notice any differences in the feelings you have viewing them and would you think of both of them as dirty or do you have any other associations to the images.

http://https://dueseasonchildbirth.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1eighth.jpg

http://http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2011/10/Bandaged-Wound.jpg

Blood on hands
http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-voIjD5A2_9U/Tb3x3-2xC2I/AAAAAAAAABg/4gBtuUFvWLI/s1600/Wounded+Hands.jpg

http://http://www.transart.org/wilsona/files/2012/07/549124_10150925794976927_1313478735_n.jpg

Blood and sex
http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sexy-vampire-portrait-female-over-black-background-35901772.jpg

http://http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/QuintonRoane/red_wings_blood_men_man_real_funny_period_demotivational_poster_1219295185_RE_Unsexiest_Things_About_Sex-s640x544-68901.jpg

SHARK WEEK

Dolbert

When-sa your Dolmio day?

:pac:

Roselm

Ambersky wrote: »

Our comfort levels and our feelings about menstruation are not only expressed or measured by our ability to speak about the issue it is also expressed by our feelings about how hidden or visible we think it should be.
The OP linked to a game that involved throwing tampons around and having fun doing something I would argue is taboo by making menstruation visible in public. I take it that part of the fun of the game is an acknowledgement of a revulsion people often feel about period blood. I would argue that there is a different reaction to period blood than to blood coming out from other parts of the body.

Blood is given different attributes in different situations. Often menstrual blood is connected with cleanliness or dirtyness. In some cultures this connection to the dirtyness of menstrual blood makes women unclean while they are having their period. We may think that we are very far removed from this idea but if you look at ads for "sanitary" napkins or tampons they often reveal much about a discomfort about the reality of periods reference needing to feel fresh, clean, free, and avoid referencing blood or even the colour red.

I dont seem to be able to upload images so I will link to some as talking about reactions to different kinds of blood and menstrual blood in particular only goes so far.

Below is a link to two different kinds of blood stained material. Do you notice any differences in the feelings you have viewing them and would you think of both of them as dirty or do you have any other associations to the images.

http://https://dueseasonchildbirth.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1eighth.jpg

http://http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2011/10/Bandaged-Wound.jpg

Blood on hands
http://http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-voIjD5A2_9U/Tb3x3-2xC2I/AAAAAAAAABg/4gBtuUFvWLI/s1600/Wounded+Hands.jpg

http://http://www.transart.org/wilsona/files/2012/07/549124_10150925794976927_1313478735_n.jpg

Blood and sex
http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/sexy-vampire-portrait-female-over-black-background-35901772.jpg

http://http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc377/QuintonRoane/red_wings_blood_men_man_real_funny_period_demotivational_poster_1219295185_RE_Unsexiest_Things_About_Sex-s640x544-68901.jpg

Don't know if it's just me but those pics won't open...

eviltwin

I have no problem discussing my periods but just never really have much cause to do so. I don't really see an issue where it would come up as its not something that is really that big a deal to me. I have a period, I bleed once a month, its no big deal.

I don't like blood at all but menstrual blood is not very pleasant maybe something to do with the clots in it. Its okay to say its gross - it is gross!! I hate cleaning up vomit or picking up my dogs poo too but admitting that isn't seen as a bad thing. I don't buy into the whole conspiracy of silence around periods thing, I just think its not something many women feel the need to discuss.

Morag

This site always amuses me, it's collation of the history of menstrual products, from pads to cup going back over 100 years.
http://www.mum.org/paddir.htm

UpCork

I have no problem talking about it if it comes up in conversation - it doesn't embarrass me. After all, it's a natural function. However, I probably wouldn't be the first person to bring it up in conversation, unless I was talking to a close friend and I mentioned I was feeling under the weather etc for that very reason.

I am not the of person (and believe me I know these kind of people) who feel it necessary to announce it on a Monday morning when they walk into the office.

Vojera

I'm really glad to hear there are so many people who don't have an issue with talking about periods. That isn't my experience, but it has been interesting hearing all your points of view.

fussyonion

I haven't got an issue talking about it but only if the person I'm talking to is also comfortable talking about it.

I talk easily about it with my mother and, maybe strangely for some, my partner.

If I'm having cramps or feeling down, he'll ask if it's that time of the month but he'll say "Is it your period?" and he'll leg it down the shops for chocolate for me, heh.

He has no issue going to the shop to buy tampons either and has done in the past.

I would NEVER talk about periods with my father or any other male, I don't think...I think they'd feel embarrassed.

LegacyUser

I don't mind mentioning I have my period if I have bad cramps or something or if it was unusually heavy. My friends and I have often in the past asked each other for a tampon or pad or painkillers if caught short during a period. Don't mind buying from a male cashier either. I wouldn't really discuss it regularly though unless there was something worth mentioning.

Your links are not working for me Ambersky which is a pity because I'm interested in what you are saying.

I don't mind my own but I would be more grossed out my someone else's menstrual blood moreso than I would be from blood coming from them in a wound like a bleeding finger.

I'm not entirely sure why that is. Maybe because although not initiating from the same areas obviously, it exits the body in the same general lower region as other waste products from the body like urine and faeces. I think humans are naturally hardwired to find poop and waste disgusting because of the risk of bacteria causing sickness.

I know menstrual blood is not the same, but maybe in my head I see it as a kinda icky waste product that's not needed, whereas blood coming from a wound in a different area of the body I would not be grossed out by, but concerned about because it is vital blood that is needed and shouldn't be exiting the body.
This just applies to other people's blood though cos like I mentioned I'm not grossed out or bothered by my own at all.

The reason I'm going anonymous is because of the following story. If my friend read this coming from my username she might on the off chance guess it was her.

Myself and my boyfriend were housesitting for a friend with our new puppy. She's a dog lover so puppy was allowed run about the house no problem. My boyfriend went to the shop so just me and puppy left. I notice the puppy has been out of the room for a few minutes so go to see what he's up to. Find him in the downstairs bathroom rummaging through the little bin. Gets all excited when he sees me and picks up something in his mouth. Next thing I know he's coming towards me with a used tampon dangling from his mouth.
I was disgusted by the sight. A sort of battle ensued with me trying to grab the string part and him thinking it was a game and tugging it away from me. The more vigorously he was happily chewing on the bloody part the sicker I was getting.

I eventually managed to get it off him, returned it to the bin and tidied the bin up. This was followed by extensive heaving and disinfecting of my hands.

The reason I'm telling this story though is because it is the only time I ever felt grossed out or embarrassed by period blood. So like Ambersky was saying, these grossed out feelings were there somewhere in me at the sight of another lady's blood.

I was desperate to get the tampon removed and bin tidied before my boyfriend came back, for the sole purpose of saving my good friend embarrassment. I felt like this was something that would mortify her if my boyfriend saw, so I tidied up and said nothing.
If it had been my own tampon I wouldn't have been embarrassed at all with my boyfriend seeing what happened as he would probably laugh. We've had sex on my period before so he's not grossed out by blood.

What's maybe strange though is I would have been embarrassed if another male apart from my partner, or even a female who I didn't know well saw that if it happened to me. And I wanted to also save my friend from embarrassment when this happened by hiding it occurred.

I would not have any of these feelings if it had been a bloody plaster the pup pulled out of the bin, so I think you raise some interesting points Ambersky.

I never told anyone about that, even my friend in question, but I couldn't let the pup lick me for nearly 2 days afterwards....

TheBeardedLady

I'm not a squeamish person about stuff like this so would have no problem talking about it in theory. I don't find periods or anything associated with them particularly disgusting but that's just me and I'm aware of that.


I suppose when I think about the idea of talking about periods, it'd be more how you're feeling coming up to them and perhaps commenting on whether you've pains or not and how you're not feeling completely yourself.


I teach adults English here in Spain and I have a new class. On Monday, one of my new students came in before everyone else and I asked her how she was. She told me she was fine but she'd her period and had pains this morning and had to take a few ibuprofen before coming to work and she was exhausted now. That happens to me monthly, so I just commented on the fact that I knew how she felt and that was that.


She was also wearing (very) red trousers and I was just about to say, "Well lucky you're wearing red trousers anyway!" and told myself to shut up just in time. :pac::pac: A step too far, perhaps.

I think a conversation like that is fine. Discussing it without going into gory details like you would about anything else that's making your day uncomfortable seems normal to me.