Irish universities plummet in rankings; 4 UK institutions in top 5

Aongus Von Bismarck · 16-09-2014 07:08PM

smash wrote: »

Paddy Cosgrave must be creaming his pants that Trinity are still top. For people who don't know him, he's the founder of The Summit Dublin and stated in an interview that he'd hire someone who got a lower grade from Trinity over someone who got a top grade from another college because it means more.

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

Fat Christy · 16-09-2014 07:11PM

UCDVet wrote: »

In my experiences with UCD - I feel like the ratings should be lower.

Don't get me wrong, lots of smart Professors and all that jazz. But, I don't think they could be any lazier or more disorganized....

I did my undergrad in DCU and I am currently doing a post-grad in UCD part time! UCD are unbelievably disorganized and I hate the campus! Drives me up the fcuking walls!

shruikan2553 · 16-09-2014 07:16PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

The standards in lecturing have really taken a dive. I sat in on a friends business lecture in DIT for the laugh there about 6 months back having not been in a lecture theatre in years. The "lecturer" stood there, and I shiit you not, wearing a BASEBALL CAP and gazing at the floor, mumbled incoherently through the notes (available online) word for word. He did not take questions. He did not pose questions. It was surreal and would have been comical had it not been such an absolute thundering disgrace.
Spoke to my friend and her classmates after, this guy wasnt even their worst lecturer - at least he showed up! Any complaints they made to the college via the SU or individually were met with arrogance and disdain.

This is true from my experience. Some lecturers are great, some are acceptable and then you get these. If part of their job is to teach they should probably make sure these people can teach. The notes are from over 5 years ago and still have errors.

aidoh · 16-09-2014 07:19PM

Considering there are thousands of universities on the planet, and considering they only rank the top 400 out of those thousands of universities, I think we're doing grand. Could and should be better but the country doesn't have the funds to attract researchers and students, hence the drop in rankings for TCD and UCD specifically over the last few years.

Iwasfrozen · 16-09-2014 07:20PM

Fat Christy wrote: »

I did my undergrad in DCU and I am currently doing a post-grad in UCD part time! UCD are unbelievably disorganized and I hate the campus! Drives me up the fcuking walls!

You'll get used to it. I hated it to when I first went but I grew to love it.

Iwasfrozen · 16-09-2014 07:21PM

aidoh wrote: »

Considering there are thousands of universities on the planet, and considering they only rank the top 400 out of those thousands of universities, I think we're doing grand. Could and should be better but the country doesn't have the funds to attract researchers and students, hence the drop in rankings for TCD and UCD specifically over the last few years.

If we abandoned the pretence of government funded third level education we could.

Tail Docker · 16-09-2014 07:22PM

anncoates wrote: »

It's a bit of stretch to say that nobody that studied in an Irish university (or any other university outside the top ranked ones) isn't in a prestigious, highly enumerated career.

I'd say that's one of the problems with our graduates. The incoherence of their written output. I see it at work, e-mails from highly qualified people with the spelling and grammar of a primary school kid. "This process is to been wached by cctv" was a jewel one chap e-mailed me today.

Fat Christy · 16-09-2014 07:23PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You'll get used to it. I hated it to when I first went but I grew to love it.

I've been there over a year at this stage, still hate it. I'm never going to get used to it. I like my course and fortunately I'm not in that kip too much as we do a lot of field work so it's grand!

Last set of lectures in October.

spurious · 16-09-2014 07:26PM

They give you notes in university now? In my day you attended the lecture and took your own notes. No wonder some say standards have dropped.

DuchessduJour · 16-09-2014 07:45PM

spurious wrote: »

They give you notes in university now? In my day you attended the lecture and took your own notes. No wonder some say standards have dropped.

Not in my experience, and I just finished up this year. I honestly think if anyone had asked any of my lecturers to provide us with notes they'd have thought it was a joke. We were always expected to have read the relevant cases/statutes or academic commentary ourselves, and analyse and interpret materials so that we could provide a critical and thought-provoking account of what we learned. College, in my experience, was academic heaven. I found it a genuinely stimulating environment and could never fully explain how much I learned, or how it changed the way I think.

That said, I was always aware that I was part of a truly excellent department of an excellent university. Even in my college, friends in other courses had different experiences and I know of a few degrees where certain modules were done because the lecturer provided notes which if learned off would guarantee a decent mark at the end of the year. So I think it has as much to do with the course and department that you're in as the college.

ToddyDoody · 16-09-2014 08:41PM

I did all my third level education in nuig. Bad point: I bet I could have learned more.... but had enough to get in the door of my career (eventually) and have a (guilt-based) interest to learn as I go along. Good point: I've never known graduates to have too big an opinion of themselves, which is good because graduates really do start out at the bottom despite the qualification(s)

Henry Sidney · 16-09-2014 08:45PM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I did all my third level education in nuig. Bad point: I bet I could have learned more but had enough to get in the door or my career, have an interest and learn as I go along. Good point: I've never known graduates to have too big an opinion of themselves, which is good because graduates really do start out at the bottom despite the qualification(s)

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last year his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

ToddyDoody · 16-09-2014 08:51PM

Henry Sidney wrote: »

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last yeah his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

Oh well. Darwinian selection I guess.

Da Shins Kelly · 16-09-2014 09:01PM

In my experience with NUIG, their English department is really great - very good, approachable lecturers, good variety in material while also covering the essentials of English literature (Shakespeare etc.) and a good mix of exam assessment and essays and presentation. They also offer an option to capable final years to do an independent project which is a great opportunity for students interested in pursuing postgraduate study. I think the ranking of the NUIG English department has been quite good in recent years, which would be in keeping with my experience with them.

I wouldn't lend too much credence to the overall university rankings though.

sock puppet · 16-09-2014 09:13PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

Huh? Smurfit is a mid ranking school in the ft top 100. Im not sure if its ever been considered a top tier business school? I can't imagine nuig has ever even registered on any ranking anywhere so not sure of the decline there.

Ave Sodalis · 16-09-2014 09:25PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Blame free fees. The government just isn't able to afford to keep our universities in adequate condition.

If the Irish government wants to reverse this thread they must abandon the idea of universal third level education and introduce and interest free loan system.

Third level education should be a privilege anyway.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, I can't imagine what the point is in a better education population... We should definitely just keep it to the rich and those who can afford it because, you know, they're the only smart people in the world. What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the brain of someone who can't afford education? God, I hate that backward view that third level is a privilege...

Hulk Hands · 16-09-2014 10:57PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

You're saying a 1.1 from UCD, NUIG etc isnt worth as much a lower comparable degree from Trinity? LOL

RubyRoss · 16-09-2014 11:14PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

I forgot that.

There were US students in the library asking if this was normal and generally quite shocked.

Many people have paid a LOT of money and it's fairly reasonable to expect an "academic environment" rather than a music festival I think.

It's Freshers' Week - new students with no classes. Maybe later in the year you would have a point but right now, lighten up and let 17 and 18 year olds enjoy their first week in college.

FloatingVoter · 16-09-2014 11:19PM

The education racket has gone on long enough. A degree is the new inter cert. We're educating people to the point where the only thing they're qualified to do is "educate" the next bunch of lemmings.
Until people get the letters after your name fixation out of their heads its a vicious circle. Watch the Leaving Cert thread and watch the failures of the future drift aimlessly into IT something or other because "Dats where de jobs are".
League tables are about as reliable as Top of the Pops and that was done away with because it was fixable, unreliable and nobody gave a toss anymore.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 16-09-2014 11:28PM

sup_dude wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Yeah, I can't imagine what the point is in a better education population... We should definitely just keep it to the rich and those who can afford it because, you know, they're the only smart people in the world. What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the brain of someone who can't afford education? God, I hate that backward view that third level is a privilege...

He's not suggesting that people should be excluded from third level. He's proposing that a government loan system be introduced, to be payed back once the individual begins earning.

Soft Falling Rain · 16-09-2014 11:31PM

Henry Sidney wrote: »

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last year his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

80k starting salary straight out of Uni? In a job where he's in charge of people even though he's no previous experience?

Yeah, I don't believe it.

Irish universities plummet in rankings; 4 UK institutions in top 5

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