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Irish universities plummet in rankings; 4 UK institutions in top 5

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Irish universities continue to fall in international rankings:

The QS rankings, one of the big three international league tables, showed Trinity College Dublin remained Ireland’s top university although it dropped from joint 61st place to joint 71st.

...

University College Dublin remained unchanged in this year’s survey at 139th; while NUI Galway rose four places to joint 280th.
For other Irish institutions, the trajectory was either down or unchanged: UCC dropped 20 places to joint 230th, and DCU slipped 15 places to 366th. University of Limerick remained unchanged in the 501-550 bracket but Dublin Institute of Technology dropped from the 501-550 bracket to the 551-600 band. NUI Maynooth also went down a band from 551-600 to 601-650.
Summarising their findings, QS said “2014/15 saw an overarching decline in Irish universities.”

Only UCD and NUIG bucked the trend, and 139th and 280th isn't exactly anything to be writing home about.

Meanwhile, over the water:

Improvements in research have seen Cambridge University and Imperial College London surpass Harvard University in the latest authoritative annual ranking of the world's top universities, published on Tuesday, with four British institutions in the top six.

The QS ranking of world universities, regarded as the most rigorous of its type, places Imperial and Cambridge as second equal, behind only the Massachusetts Institute of Technology on the international stage in 2014, thanks to a year of impressive citations measured by QS's survey of academic output.

Harvard dropped from second to fourth overall. It was followed by Oxford and University College London in joint fifth place, with Stanford, Caltech, Princeton and Yale of the US filling out the rest of the top 10.

"These rankings support what our students, alumni, staff, friends and collaborators know, that Imperial is one of the world's great universities," said Professor Alice Gast, Imperial's new president of Imperial College and a leading chemical engineer. "Imperial has a rare ability to turn outstanding research into discoveries that have a real impact on the world."

Kings College London, Edinburgh, Bristol and Manchester universities are all in the top 30, capping the best performance by British institutions in the 10 years the QS rankings have been published. Glasgow, Warwick, Birmingham and Sheffield universities make the top 70. The 2014 rankings will also help British universities' efforts to attract research funding and recruit top-rate researchers and students.

...

Graduates of Oxford and Cambridge were rated as the world's most employable, with LSE graduates also highly regarded.

Given this information, it seems it's high time for far more of our brightest Leaving Cert students to start considering going abroad for their undergraduate degrees. An Oxbridge or Ivy League degree is life-changing, and student bursaries and loans make it affordable for anyone. Why waste your potential on a second-tier institution if you're capable of the best?

If you're hoping to get above 550 points (perhaps slightly higher, I'm not sure I'm keeping pace with grade inflation) it looks like a no-brainer to start working on your SAT scores and UCAS statement.

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Aongus Von Bismarck

smash wrote: »

Paddy Cosgrave must be creaming his pants that Trinity are still top. For people who don't know him, he's the founder of The Summit Dublin and stated in an interview that he'd hire someone who got a lower grade from Trinity over someone who got a top grade from another college because it means more.

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

Fat Christy

UCDVet wrote: »

In my experiences with UCD - I feel like the ratings should be lower.

Don't get me wrong, lots of smart Professors and all that jazz. But, I don't think they could be any lazier or more disorganized....

I did my undergrad in DCU and I am currently doing a post-grad in UCD part time! UCD are unbelievably disorganized and I hate the campus! Drives me up the fcuking walls!

shruikan2553

suicide_circus wrote: »

The standards in lecturing have really taken a dive. I sat in on a friends business lecture in DIT for the laugh there about 6 months back having not been in a lecture theatre in years. The "lecturer" stood there, and I shiit you not, wearing a BASEBALL CAP and gazing at the floor, mumbled incoherently through the notes (available online) word for word. He did not take questions. He did not pose questions. It was surreal and would have been comical had it not been such an absolute thundering disgrace.
Spoke to my friend and her classmates after, this guy wasnt even their worst lecturer - at least he showed up! Any complaints they made to the college via the SU or individually were met with arrogance and disdain.

This is true from my experience. Some lecturers are great, some are acceptable and then you get these. If part of their job is to teach they should probably make sure these people can teach. The notes are from over 5 years ago and still have errors.

aidoh

Considering there are thousands of universities on the planet, and considering they only rank the top 400 out of those thousands of universities, I think we're doing grand. Could and should be better but the country doesn't have the funds to attract researchers and students, hence the drop in rankings for TCD and UCD specifically over the last few years.

Iwasfrozen

Fat Christy wrote: »

I did my undergrad in DCU and I am currently doing a post-grad in UCD part time! UCD are unbelievably disorganized and I hate the campus! Drives me up the fcuking walls!

You'll get used to it. I hated it to when I first went but I grew to love it.

Iwasfrozen

aidoh wrote: »

Considering there are thousands of universities on the planet, and considering they only rank the top 400 out of those thousands of universities, I think we're doing grand. Could and should be better but the country doesn't have the funds to attract researchers and students, hence the drop in rankings for TCD and UCD specifically over the last few years.

If we abandoned the pretence of government funded third level education we could.

Tail Docker

anncoates wrote: »

It's a bit of stretch to say that nobody that studied in an Irish university (or any other university outside the top ranked ones) isn't in a prestigious, highly enumerated career.

I'd say that's one of the problems with our graduates. The incoherence of their written output. I see it at work, e-mails from highly qualified people with the spelling and grammar of a primary school kid. "This process is to been wached by cctv" was a jewel one chap e-mailed me today.

Fat Christy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You'll get used to it. I hated it to when I first went but I grew to love it.

I've been there over a year at this stage, still hate it. I'm never going to get used to it. I like my course and fortunately I'm not in that kip too much as we do a lot of field work so it's grand!

Last set of lectures in October.

spurious

They give you notes in university now? In my day you attended the lecture and took your own notes. No wonder some say standards have dropped.

DuchessduJour

spurious wrote: »

They give you notes in university now? In my day you attended the lecture and took your own notes. No wonder some say standards have dropped.

Not in my experience, and I just finished up this year. I honestly think if anyone had asked any of my lecturers to provide us with notes they'd have thought it was a joke. We were always expected to have read the relevant cases/statutes or academic commentary ourselves, and analyse and interpret materials so that we could provide a critical and thought-provoking account of what we learned. College, in my experience, was academic heaven. I found it a genuinely stimulating environment and could never fully explain how much I learned, or how it changed the way I think.

That said, I was always aware that I was part of a truly excellent department of an excellent university. Even in my college, friends in other courses had different experiences and I know of a few degrees where certain modules were done because the lecturer provided notes which if learned off would guarantee a decent mark at the end of the year. So I think it has as much to do with the course and department that you're in as the college.

ToddyDoody

I did all my third level education in nuig. Bad point: I bet I could have learned more.... but had enough to get in the door of my career (eventually) and have a (guilt-based) interest to learn as I go along. Good point: I've never known graduates to have too big an opinion of themselves, which is good because graduates really do start out at the bottom despite the qualification(s)

Henry Sidney

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I did all my third level education in nuig. Bad point: I bet I could have learned more but had enough to get in the door or my career, have an interest and learn as I go along. Good point: I've never known graduates to have too big an opinion of themselves, which is good because graduates really do start out at the bottom despite the qualification(s)

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last year his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

ToddyDoody

Henry Sidney wrote: »

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last yeah his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

Oh well. Darwinian selection I guess.

Da Shins Kelly

In my experience with NUIG, their English department is really great - very good, approachable lecturers, good variety in material while also covering the essentials of English literature (Shakespeare etc.) and a good mix of exam assessment and essays and presentation. They also offer an option to capable final years to do an independent project which is a great opportunity for students interested in pursuing postgraduate study. I think the ranking of the NUIG English department has been quite good in recent years, which would be in keeping with my experience with them.

I wouldn't lend too much credence to the overall university rankings though.

sock puppet

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

Huh? Smurfit is a mid ranking school in the ft top 100. Im not sure if its ever been considered a top tier business school? I can't imagine nuig has ever even registered on any ranking anywhere so not sure of the decline there.

Ave Sodalis

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Blame free fees. The government just isn't able to afford to keep our universities in adequate condition.

If the Irish government wants to reverse this thread they must abandon the idea of universal third level education and introduce and interest free loan system.

Third level education should be a privilege anyway.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, I can't imagine what the point is in a better education population... We should definitely just keep it to the rich and those who can afford it because, you know, they're the only smart people in the world. What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the brain of someone who can't afford education? God, I hate that backward view that third level is a privilege...

Hulk Hands

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

That's because it does.

The calibre of students coming out of Irish universities over the past decade is absolutely disgraceful. Places like Smurfit and NUI Galway's business school have just become glorified diploma mills.

You're saying a 1.1 from UCD, NUIG etc isnt worth as much a lower comparable degree from Trinity? LOL

RubyRoss

SpaceTime wrote: »

I forgot that.

There were US students in the library asking if this was normal and generally quite shocked.

Many people have paid a LOT of money and it's fairly reasonable to expect an "academic environment" rather than a music festival I think.

It's Freshers' Week - new students with no classes. Maybe later in the year you would have a point but right now, lighten up and let 17 and 18 year olds enjoy their first week in college.

FloatingVoter

The education racket has gone on long enough. A degree is the new inter cert. We're educating people to the point where the only thing they're qualified to do is "educate" the next bunch of lemmings.
Until people get the letters after your name fixation out of their heads its a vicious circle. Watch the Leaving Cert thread and watch the failures of the future drift aimlessly into IT something or other because "Dats where de jobs are".
League tables are about as reliable as Top of the Pops and that was done away with because it was fixable, unreliable and nobody gave a toss anymore.

DEFTLEFTHAND

sup_dude wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Yeah, I can't imagine what the point is in a better education population... We should definitely just keep it to the rich and those who can afford it because, you know, they're the only smart people in the world. What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the brain of someone who can't afford education? God, I hate that backward view that third level is a privilege...

He's not suggesting that people should be excluded from third level. He's proposing that a government loan system be introduced, to be payed back once the individual begins earning.

Soft Falling Rain

Henry Sidney wrote: »

Depends where you graduate from. My nephew just graduated from Imperial College London and went straight into a managerial role on £80k+. Last year his sister graduated from Exeter University and indeed went into an almost entry level job.

The quality of your college makes a huge difference to your prospects.

80k starting salary straight out of Uni? In a job where he's in charge of people even though he's no previous experience?

Yeah, I don't believe it.