Ukraine: As it happens.

moxin · 13-09-2014 08:36PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Stop lying. 90% of Lithuanian fishing industry relies on exporting th Russia. Are you saying that the Poles hate the Russians but love the Germans? After what the Third Reich did to them. You talk about historical animosities as if Russia is or was the only empire to stoke the acrimony of other nations. You think the guatamalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Filipinos, afghans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, Iraqis, etc., etc., just love the US? Or the Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, etc just love the British? Or the Angolans and Amazonians just adore the Portuguese, or the Chinese and Indonesians and Malays just worship the Japanese after all the slaughter that has been visited upon them by these "torch bearers of freedom"?

Which part is lying?. A Reminder, the topic is about European countries and not Central America or Asia.

sheesh · 13-09-2014 08:52PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I'm very aware of the concept of sovereignty. I'd like to know, however, what your interpretation of it is.
Since Washington orchestrated the coup and toppling of the Kiev government and are now perpetuating an agressive propaganda campaign against Russia, would you not classify that as the subversion of a "sovereign" nation, as you so glibly euphemise?

First lets see proof that USA orchestrated the coup.

Secondly an agressive propagana campaign is one thing your lot actually invaded the country! is that not a bit of an escalation.

I have to say the quality of the Israeli shills is a lot better. Of course your position is alot harder to defend. wheras israelis were having rockets fired at them Ukrane just wanted to join the EU so ye invaded them.

Busted Flat. · 13-09-2014 09:22PM

There seems to be a lot of posters on here that limit their information to Fox cartoon channel. Since we are in such a very real possible scenario of the out break of war, should posters not consider looking at a variety of news forums. Head in the sand will not help the world when the shít hits the fan.

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 09:50PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Which are these?

Are you familiar with the doctrine of Zbigniew Brzezinski? He was the one who under the Carter Administration engineered the creation of the Afghan Mujahideen and the roping in of Brezhnev's forces into Afghanistan in 1979. He later wrote his opus "The Grand Chessboard" in 1997 where he outlined the Western goal of destroying Russia, controlling the Caspian Basin and cutting off China from all energy sources by building a "ring of steel" around the country.

Now, this might be a little complex for you to handle. It does after all encompass the bigger picture. I wouldn't waste my energy responding to that person who claims that he has on good authority that I am a Russian employee. Two hands, arse and map are words that spring to mind.

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 10:12PM

sheesh wrote: »

So all of a sudden the russian speaking Ukranians en mass spontaneously decided that they wanted to become part of russia? And just by chance Russia just happened to have without any planning just happened to have an army ready to facilitate this and the russians had no hand act or part in the fermenting of this sudden change

Still being pro russian eh? Yeah Russia is really great but only for Russians.

Western politicians like Milliband? Is the leader of the UKs labour party and has never been PM.

Clearly you are a russian living in Russia in employment of the russian government. Your complete lack of everyday knowledge of european politics has demonstrated that.
Unfortunately because you are in russia all you media is government controlled.

What the hell are you doing on an Irish Website? I thought your governemnt was trying to create its own sphere of influence and not bother with us weak willed westerners.

Interesting talk from someone who most likely rages against Russian censorship.

And it doesn't matter what language they speak. Most Ukranians speak Russian anyway. Very similar to the fact that most if not ALL Irish people speak English.
The Novorussians who are now fighting against Kiev are not all of a sudden deciding that they want to be drones to some central Moscow committee. They are fighting because they reject the coup that has been staged by NATO to topple an existing head of state and install a stooge whose interests lie purely in pay-off. They are also fighting because they do not wish to succumb to the whims of a puppet government loaded with neo-Nazi thugs who torch buildings and beat people to death.

Now is that clear to you?
Novorussians do not want to be persecuted anymore than the crowd stuck up a mountain in Iraq that you and your ilk seem so virulently passionate about saving from the ISIS horror.

You want freedom and safety and justice and fair play for some, but not all?

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 10:21PM

moxin wrote: »

Which part is lying?. A Reminder, the topic is about European countries and not Central America or Asia.

Don't be narrow-minded, or flippant for that matter. Were we to discuss a crime in the present day and I were to mention a past precedent analogous to said crime would you trot out the "the topic is about the 21st century" meme?

moxin · 13-09-2014 10:34PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Don't be narrow-minded, or flippant for that matter. Were we to discuss a crime in the present day and I were to mention a past precedent analogous to said crime would you trot out the "the topic is about the 21st century" meme?

Hold on, we're living in the present. You have not told us about your view on the stand of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland opposing Russia. Add in Georgia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan to the list.

Go on tell us, why all those countries love Russia?!

Gatling · 13-09-2014 10:39PM

I heard tonight Ryanair are offering cheap flights to Moscow .

The amount of Vlad kissery is reaching epic proportion on here .

The Adversary · 13-09-2014 10:41PM

The amount of russophobia in this thread is not only frightening but truly tragic.

deco nate · 13-09-2014 10:46PM

Gatling wrote: »

I heard tonight Ryanair are offering cheap flights to Moscow .

The amount of Vlad kissery is reaching epic proportion on here .

I wonder how many would like to fly over and live in Moscow?

Gatling · 13-09-2014 10:51PM

deco nate wrote: »

I wonder how many would like to fly over and live in Moscow?

No boards .
No facebook
No lesbians
No calling your leader a lying murdering megalomaniac without getting a 10 year stretch

Hell no I love my freedom too much

obplayer · 13-09-2014 11:51PM

This is a link to an article in Psychology Today by Ian H. Robertson PH.D, a neuroscientist and psychologist who has explored the plasticity of the human brain. Here he examines the possible effects of Putin being in power for 15 years on his brain and psychology. What do other boardsies think of this essay?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-winner-effect/201403/the-danger-lurks-inside-vladimir-putins-brain

To mods, how Putin thinks is surely relevant to how to deal with the situation in Ukraine?

mmmcake · 14-09-2014 12:34AM

The hypocrisy of the russophobes is clearly evident, when presented with proof that Russia is telling the truth they just ignore the post and plough on with their anti Russian propaganda.
They swamp the board with messages and try and push the evidence off the "front page".

Amnesty have a report of ukraine troops, Right sector Nazis, atrocities in east ukraine, it has been completely ignored.
Yet when Amnesty criticise Russia they post about it non stop.

That cry no free press in Russia, yet ignore the fact RTE did not report the IMF coming into Ireland or the Super injunction Scandal in the UK.

Then they have the nerve to say anyone who point this hypocrisy out is a kremlin shill.

Egginacup · 14-09-2014 01:13AM

moxin wrote: »

Hold on, we're living in the present. You have not told us about your view on the stand of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland opposing Russia. Add in Georgia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan to the list.

Go on tell us, why all those countries love Russia?!

Tell us?
Who are "us" specifically? Are you attempting to draw lines now?

It would appear so.

I couldn't give a damn who "loves" Russia or "loves" NATO.
All that matters are FACTS. A concept of which most "westerners" have displayed that they are pitifully bereft.

These are the facts and they are indisputable:

1, Russia did not attack any neighbouring country
2. Russia is not THREATENING to attack any neighbouring country.
3. Russia is worried about invasion from European military forces given the attacks on the country dating from Napoleon through Bismarck's successor to Adolf Hitler....and then more threats from Truman to Obama.
4. The American and NATO axis have stated CATEGORICALLY that they aim to control the Caspian Basin's oil and gas reserves.
5. Russia's expansion, were it fathomable, has not in any shred of evidence, manifested itself along the borders of Mongolia or China.
6. Are Russian warships steaming from Vladivostok and threatening Japan?

NO.

Russia who saved Europe from Nazsim are now about to be dragged in to a war to smash their land and rape their resources much like Iraq....much like Libya, and much like Ukraine, only Ukraine are being used like the saps that Egypt and Jordan have displayed themselves to be.

sheesh · 14-09-2014 03:52PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Interesting talk from someone who most likely rages against Russian censorship.

Hauling you up on your obvious shilling is not censorship and tyhat is a non answer

Egginacup wrote: »

And it doesn't matter what language they speak. Most Ukranians speak Russian anyway. Very similar to the fact that most if not ALL Irish people speak English.

and just because we speak english does not mean that britain can rock up to our border and start sending tanks across and call themselves peacekeepers because of an internal matter.

Egginacup wrote: »

The Novorussians who are now fighting against Kiev are not all of a sudden deciding that they want to be drones to some central Moscow committee. They are fighting because they reject the coup that has been staged by NATO to topple an existing head of state and install a stooge whose interests lie purely in pay-off. They are also fighting because they do not wish to succumb to the whims of a puppet government loaded with neo-Nazi thugs who torch buildings and beat people to death.

And if that is true then fair enough and more power to them, but what is russia doing there? It is none of russias business.

Egginacup wrote: »

Now is that clear to you?
Novorussians do not want to be persecuted anymore than the crowd stuck up a mountain in Iraq that you and your ilk seem so virulently passionate about saving from the ISIS horror.

I do not think that I have taken part in any discussion on ISIS on boards.ie thats all in your imagination

Egginacup wrote: »

You want freedom and safety and justice and fair play for some, but not all?

I'd like Russia to stop invading countries bordering europe tbh something you have no problem with.

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 04:28PM

As an old anglo-irish person does this in fact mean i'm a novobritish?

And can I expect the UK army to come in and help me if I get into any trouble with the guards?

Or even worse can i expect to find a SAS unit at my door tomorrow that david cameron has sent to retroactively declare Connemara as part of the UK because I'm living there?

:eek:

SeanW · 14-09-2014 05:10PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Since the US are try to break Russia up into weak fragments....I believe the industry term is "Balkanization" much like the endgame in Iraq is, in order to control the resources of the Caspian Basin, then why wouldn't you be opposed to such aggression?

Umm ... noone is trying to break up Russia (except maybe some Islamic fundies in Chechnya).

The Adversary wrote: »

The amount of russophobia in this thread is not only frightening but truly tragic.

Noone here is "Russophobic" most people would prefer to have better relations with Russia in the mutual interest of all. It's just hard when they routinely invade and take territory from their neighbors.

All anyone wants is for Russia to mind its own business and stop invading it's neighbors, stealing their land, and killing and kidnapping their people. As the largest country on Earth 7 times over but with a population of only 110 million or so that should be easy enough, but Putin and co seem to have bigger ambitions.

Many of those so-called "Novorossians" are only there because they were sent there as colonists by Stalin in an attempt at genocide against the Ukranian people. Which the Soviets also did to Estonia - another country that Russia is now screwing with. Estonia is vulnerable to Russian meddling on the same basis that Ukraine is - the country has a sizeable chunk of its population as cultural Russians also left over from Stalins attempt to starve, exile and kill as many Baltic people, Ukranians and others as necessary to destroy those nationalities.

That fact alone should keep Russia out of the affairs of those countries. Permanently. And if someone wants to live in Russia they should bloody well move there, it's not like the coutry isn't big enough.

I've predicted for some time based on Russia's recent history that they'd start some more **** with Estonia (again) and I have been proven correct, at least on a small scale.

Gatling · 14-09-2014 05:13PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Russia who saved Europe from Nazsim are now about to be dragged in to a war to smash their land and rape their resources much like Iraq....much like Libya, and much like Ukraine, only Ukraine are being used like the saps that Egypt and Jordan have displayed themselves to be.

History lesson

russia saved nobody from nazisnm .
The same russia who also forced communism on the whole of eastern Europe .practically enslaved 100's of millions of people though use of secret police forces and theat of massacres against against civilian population of several countries to keeps them oppressed .
so yeah we traded the third reich for something a lot worse in some cases

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 05:18PM

Stalin killed almost as many people as Hitler.

gandalf · 14-09-2014 05:23PM

mmmcake wrote: »

The hypocrisy of the russophobes is clearly evident, when presented with proof that Russia is telling the truth they just ignore the post and plough on with their anti Russian propaganda.

What proof, I have seen no proof. Typically you and other jump up and down and throw the label "nazi" around and then have a blind belief that you have put up proof. (Still waiting for the genocide proof in the Politics thread btw

)

They swamp the board with messages and try and push the evidence off the "front page".

LOL POT KETTLE BLACK

Amnesty have a report of ukraine troops, Right sector Nazis, atrocities in east ukraine, it has been completely ignored.
Yet when Amnesty criticise Russia they post about it non stop.

LOL selective summation of the amnesty reports that. It does say that the Ukrainian side have committed atrocities but it also states the Pro-Russian side has and the Pro-Russian side (Or just Russians) have actually committed far more atrocities.

“The Ukrainian authorities must not replicate the lawlessness and abuses that have prevailed in areas previously held by separatists,” said Salil Shetty, Amnesty International Secretary General from Kyiv.

http://www.amnesty.ie/news/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces

More reports from Amnesty about abuse and torture.

“The bulk of the abductions are being perpetrated by armed separatists, with the victims often subjected to stomach-turning beatings and torture. There is also evidence of a smaller number of abuses by pro-Kyiv forces.”

http://www.amnesty.ie/news/ukraine-mounting-evidence-abduction-and-torture

That cry no free press in Russia, yet ignore the fact RTE did not report the IMF coming into Ireland or the Super injunction Scandal in the UK.

Ah but plenty of other news outlets did report these stories both in Ireland and in Europe. The state cannot control the flow of information with the near totality that the Kremlin can with the Russian media.

Then they have the nerve to say anyone who point this hypocrisy out is a kremlin shill.

Probably because they are or they are suffering from blind patriotism or an extreme case of the Conspiracy Theories Blues

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 05:34PM

The russian regime clamps down on russian media. Any outlet with over 3000 subscribers is subject to censorship by the state.

And the pro-putin fanboys on here point at fox news and rte and say Ha, its just the same in "the west".

Funny.

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 05:40PM

Egginacup wrote: »

6. Are Russian warships steaming from Vladivostok and threatening Japan?

NO.

They'd like to.

Funny you mention that though. Russia has had a long standing and continuing dispute with Japan over Sakalin Island.

And in 1983, Russia shot down a Korean Air 747 near the island. Killing all 296 innocent civilians on board.

Sounds familiar doesnt it?

"Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (also known as KAL007 and KE007[note 2]) was a scheduled Korean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage. On September 1, 1983, the airliner serving the flight was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor near Moneron Island, west of Sakhalin Island, in the Sea of Japan. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

SeanW · 14-09-2014 05:50PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

They'd like to.

Funny you mention that though. Russia has had a long standing and continuing dispute with Japan over Sakalin Island.

And in 1983, Russia shot down a Korean Air 747 near the island. Killing all 296 innocent civilians on board.

Sounds familiar doesnt it?

Eerily so.

The first incident of a civilian airliner being shot down was in 1940 and that was also committed by Russia/Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)

Seems history just keeps on repeating itself.

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 06:17PM

Egginacup wrote: »

5. Russia's expansion, were it fathomable, has not in any shred of evidence, manifested itself along the borders of Mongolia or China.

In 1969 Russia and China very nearly went to war over long standing border disputes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict

Egginacup · 14-09-2014 06:53PM

sheesh wrote: »

Hauling you up on your obvious shilling is not censorship and tyhat is a non answer

And if that is true then fair enough and more power to them, but what is russia doing there? It is none of russias business.

I'd like Russia to stop invading countries bordering europe tbh something you have no problem with.

Since this coup was orchestrated in an attempt to move NATO arms closer to Russia then it is most DEFINITELY Russia's business. But if you have doubts about that in that it is an internal conflict then what business is it of America's or Britain's or anyone else either for that matter.

Like I said before, you can't have it both ways.
If it's none of Russia's business then you must say that it's none of America's business also...no?

Gatling · 14-09-2014 06:57PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Since this coup was orchestrated in an attempt to move NATO arms closer to Russia then it is most DEFINITELY Russia's business. But if you have doubts about that in that it is an internal conflict then what business is it of America's or Britain's or anyone else either for that matter.

Like I said before, you can't have it both ways.
If it's none of Russia's business then you must say that it's none of America's business also...no?

None of Russia's business or there very poorly educated lackies

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 06:59PM

Egginacup wrote: »

what business is it of America's or Britain's or anyone else either for that matter.

Because the poor f'ing ukrainians didnt think they'd be invaded by their psychotic neighbour and they asked The West for help.

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 07:01PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Since this coup was orchestrated in an attempt to move NATO arms closer to Russia then it is most DEFINITELY Russia's business.

Why?? Ukraine isnt russia you know?

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 07:09PM

Egginacup wrote: »

If it's none of Russia's business then you must say that it's none of America's business also...no?

Illogical nonsense.

Listen I'm no fan of the spread of the us right wing corporatism but if russia wants to compete with that they need to cop on and claw their way out of the soviet 1950's and get productive and actually create a society people in the world want to be part of instead of reverting to internal repression and censorship and invading other countries to gain "allies".

Does russia produce anything other countries want besides oil and gas?

No.

Maybe they could try that approach instead of bullying others.

InTheTrees · 14-09-2014 07:13PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Since this coup was orchestrated in an attempt to move NATO arms closer to Russia then it is most DEFINITELY Russia's business.

Hey here's a crazy wacky idea; How about russia acts like a normal society, quits threatening and invading its neighbours and joins the rest of the normal world in the 21st century.

Then we wouldnt need to defend ourselves against them all the time.

Ukraine: As it happens.

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