Ukraine: As it happens.

Gatling · 12-09-2014 08:29AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I really don't think you know that ive no idea what im talking about.

"Putin did it cos he's the man

Fixed :pac::pac:

Egginacup · 12-09-2014 08:58AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You couldn't make up this kind of stuff! I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

You said this a few days ago. You really should, you would be brilliant at it,
Your "Putin did it cos he's the bad guy" posts are pure Hollywood.

And I'm just wondering what the source of that second explosion in the cockpit would be that would "force" bits of shrapnel back out from whence they came.

Maybe the joysticks are made out of gelignite?
Perhaps the pilot's and co-pilot's seats have semtex as padding and detonators as arm-rests?
Or the 50 gallon drum of kerosene they keep in there as a backup in case they need to pull over into a lay-by and top up the tank?

And people who put forward such utter nonsense have the audacity to call others tinfoil hat wearing crackpots?

Gatling · 12-09-2014 09:03AM

Terrible to hear Russia having more sanctions imposed today (not really )

Egginacup · 12-09-2014 09:18AM

Count Dooku wrote: »

This is how shrapnel looks in 9M38 missile for Buk
https://i.imgur.com/EwKyK92.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wDXYVth.jpg
Direction of holes on winglet shows that MH17 have been hit from back and only Ukrainians could do that to frame rebels

Is that a garden variety warhead for a BUK missile? So those wingnut shaped blocks of metal are the usual shrapnel components layered around the explosive core?

Elmer Blooker · 12-09-2014 09:25AM

Gatling wrote: »

Terrible to hear Russia having more sanctions imposed today

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/ukraine-russia.xqh

dubious compensation claims, especially from Poland.

I posted in the politics forum about a week ago that cracks would soon appear in the EU as each country would be looking after their own interests when they go begging to Brussels but I didn't think it would happen so soon - read this about Poland. When Brussels has nothing left in the coffers to give to broke farmers expect unrest - even the Irish might take to the streets!
Sanctions are a double edged sword and you better believe it.

Gatling · 12-09-2014 09:30AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/ukraine-russia.xqh

I posted in the politics forum about a week ago that cracks would soon appear in the EU as each country would be looking after their own interests when they go begging to Brussels but I didn't think it would happen so soon - read this about Poland. When Brussels has nothing left in the coffers to give to broke farmers expect unrest - even the Irish might take to the streets!
Sanctions are a double edged sword and you better believe it.

So polish farmers trying to cook the books doesn't mean not a lot in the scheme of things

what will Russian's do without cucumbers and pickles people could start questioning the government where are out cucumbers and pickles could be the start of something big ,
First no bigmacs
What next

Gatling · 12-09-2014 10:00AM

Taken from the political forums

Worth a read

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-truth-behind-putins-secret-war-269227.html

Elmer Blooker · 12-09-2014 10:41AM

Newsweek! ..... cringe. That type of 1950s McCarthyism, so called "journalism" might be right up your alley gatling but I would find The Sun more balanced than that mag.
As I said this kind of stuff is straight from the 1950s but hardly surprising, America could not survive without enemies - real or imagined.

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/cover/public/2014/07/22/cover010814.jpg?itok=yteJmwbd

Gatling · 12-09-2014 10:49AM

May i suggest the fortean times then ,

Actually there is a lot of grumbling going on inside russia from families of dead troops who have been secretly buried and not even informing there families which shows a total lack of respect and discontent the Russian government has for it own troops fighting an illegal war in Ukraine ,

gandalf · 12-09-2014 10:58AM

Another comprehensive article about Russian troops and casualties

..MOSCOW (Reuters) – Late last month Yelena Tumanova was handed the body of her son in a coffin at her home in Russia’s Western Volga region. Anton Tumanov was 20 and a soldier serving in the Russian army in the North Caucasus region of Chechnya.

The documents Yelena Tumanova was given with the body raised more questions than they answered – questions about how her son died and about the Russian government’s denials that its troops are in Ukraine. The records do not show Anton Tumanov’s place of death, said human rights activists who spoke to his mother after she got in touch with them.

“Medical documents said there were shrapnel wounds, that is he died from a loss of blood, but how it happened and where were not indicated,” said Sergei Krivenko, who heads a commission on military affairs on Russia’s presidential human rights council.

Yelena Tumanova could not be reached for comment and Reuters was unable to review the documents. But more than 10 soldiers in her dead son’s unit told Krivenko and Ella Polyakova, another member of the presidential human rights council, that Anton Tumanov died in an Aug. 13 battle near the Ukrainian town of Snizhnye. The battle, the soldiers said, killed more than 100 Russian soldiers serving in the 18th motorised rifle brigade of military unit 27777, which is based outside the Chechen capital of Grozny.

Rolan, 23, a fellow soldier who served with Tumanov, told Reuters that his comrade died on the operating table after he was hit by shrapnel from rockets. Rolan said he was steps away in an armoured personnel carrier when the rockets struck. He said two in his group died, including another soldier, named Robert..

http://www.euronews.com/newswires/2685664-special-report-moscow-stifles-dissent-as-soldiers-return-in-coffins/

Busted Flat. · 12-09-2014 11:04AM

gandalf wrote: »

Another comprehensive article about Russian troops and casualties

http://www.euronews.com/newswires/2685664-special-report-moscow-stifles-dissent-as-soldiers-return-in-coffins/

That sums the article up "Yelena Tumanova could not be reached for comment and Reuters was unable to review the documents".

First class reporting.

Gatling · 12-09-2014 11:07AM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

That sums the article up "Yelena Tumanova could not be reached for comment and Reuters was unable to review the documents".

Wonder where she was put by the Kremlin

Egginacup · 12-09-2014 11:14AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Newsweek! ..... cringe. That type of 1950s McCarthyism, so called "journalism" might be right up your alley gatling but I would find The Sun more balanced than that mag.
As I said this kind of stuff is straight from the 1950s but hardly surprising, America could not survive without enemies - real or imagined.

http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/cover/public/2014/07/22/cover010814.jpg?itok=yteJmwbd

Newsweek routinely spoonfeeds the American public with propaganda and hides the reality from them. Who could forget the risible American edition of the mag having some treacly meaningless front page article while the editions for the rest of the world had a front page that actually addressed the harsh reality of events in Afghanistan. Of course the truth was much too uncomfortable for the delicate sensitivities of the US public:

http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/newsweeks_worldwide_cover_story_losing_afghanistan_except_in_us

Gatling · 12-09-2014 11:22AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Newsweek routinely spoonfeeds the American public with propaganda and hides the reality from them. Who could forget the risible American edition of the mag having some treacly meaningless front page article while the editions for the rest of the world had a front page that actually addressed the harsh reality of events in Afghanistan. Of course the truth was much too uncomfortable for the delicate sensitivities of the US public:

http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/newsweeks_worldwide_cover_story_losing_afghanistan_except_in_us

An 8 year old article

Markcheese · 12-09-2014 01:36PM

Gatling wrote: »

An 8 year old article

And anyway those soldiers were on holidays in sunny eastern ukraine ,with their mates,they may have borrowed a few company "cars" , and soldiers kicking back might bring their weapons for some recreational target practice ,
No definitely not deployed to eastern Ukraine,

Egginacup · 12-09-2014 09:02PM

It is comical to watch and listen to the amateur clowns in Washington and their NATO vassals flounder and fail at every turn to draw Russia into a protracted war. The Russians may be a little slow to learn but they're a lot slower to forget. They will not forget in a hurry that the CIA engineered their Afghanistan debacle in 1979 and they will NEVER forget that the US promised not to expand eastwards if Russia reunited Germany, a promise that was broken almost as quickly as it was made.
The US are laughable n their bluster about defending the Baltics from a nonexistant threat from Moscow. If Washington was so unwilling go to war with the Russians over Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in 1968 then why are they so willing to go to war over Estonia today even though Russia has no designs on the place.

When I listen to the crap emanating from Obama's mouth I marvel at how this twit could be such an awesome actor spouting such dung with a straight face. Then I start to wonder if Harvard isn't all it's cracked up to be.

sheesh · 12-09-2014 09:15PM

Egginacup wrote: »

It is comical to watch and listen to the amateur clowns in Washington and their NATO vassals flounder and fail at every turn to draw Russia into a protracted war. The Russians may be a little slow to learn but they're a lot slower to forget. They will not forget in a hurry that the CIA engineered their Afghanistan debacle in 1979 and they will NEVER forget that the US promised not to expand eastwards if Russia reunited Germany, a promise that was broken almost as quickly as it was made.
The US are laughable n their bluster about defending the Baltics from a nonexistant threat from Moscow. If Washington was so unwilling go to war with the Russians over Hungary in 1956 or Czechoslovakia in 1968 then why are they so willing to go to war over Estonia today even though Russia has no designs on the place.

When I listen to the crap emanating from Obama's mouth I marvel at how this twit could be such an awesome actor spouting such dung with a straight face. Then I start to wonder if Harvard isn't all it's cracked up to be.

non existant ??? he has already taken a large chunk of Ukrane and Georgia, and the poles have been told that they are coming for them too. the russians are doing military exercises on on the Finish border.

the US helped the afgans against the Soviet Union this is meant to be a different administration/government.

You are familar with the concept of sovereign countries?

I am not exactly hugely pro american but I question the sanity of anyone out side of russia being pro russian at the moment.

moxin · 12-09-2014 09:34PM

And they kidnapped an Estonian!! Ya know what, not one former Eastern Bloc country has positive relations with Russia and certain conspiracy driven posters ask why?!
They all(yes all) do not trust Russia. Shall we name them? Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech, Romania(this country wanted to arm Ukraine!), Bulgaria. And Finland!! They can't all be wrong in their hostility towards Russia and certain posters on AH right?! :rolleyes:

Red Nissan · 13-09-2014 11:21AM

moxin wrote: »

They all(yes all) do not trust Russia. Shall we name them? Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech, Romania(this country wanted to arm Ukraine!), Bulgaria. And Finland!! They can't all be wrong in their hostility towards Russia and certain posters on AH right?! :rolleyes:

Here is a thought, why don't they make and United Against Russia Assembly and nuke her asss if she approaches nearer than fifty miles.

Then we'd have the EU, UAR, Russia. Would be a lot simpler no?

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 03:11PM

sheesh wrote: »

non existant ??? he has already taken a large chunk of Ukrane and Georgia, and the poles have been told that they are coming for them too. the russians are doing military exercises on on the Finish border.

the US helped the afgans against the Soviet Union this is meant to be a different administration/government.

You are familar with the concept of sovereign countries?

I am not exactly hugely pro american but I question the sanity of anyone out side of russia being pro russian at the moment.

when has Russia "taken" Georgia? If you're talking about the semi autonomous regions of abkhazia and south ossetia then you need to get your facts right. These regions opted not to join with Georgia when the USSR dismantled. They were attacked by US trained Georgian forces in 2008. The Georgian forces murdered 12 Russians peacekeepers and consequently got their asses handed to them by the Russian army in 5 hours. Realising that they had gone a bridge too far in trying to fcuk with Russia, western politicians like Milliband immediately hung Georgia out to dry and announced that Shakaashvili had overstepped the mark, even though it was their [NATO'S] idea.

And if you are so adamant in trumpetting the rights of Ukraine or Georgia to be independent from Russia then why aren't you just as supportive of the aspirations of the South ossetians to be free from Georgia or the Novorussians to be free from Ukraine?

You can't have it both ways.

Gatling · 13-09-2014 03:33PM

Egginacup wrote: »

when has Russia "taken" Georgia? If you're talking about the semi autonomous regions of abkhazia and south ossetia then you need to get your facts right. These regions opted not to join with Georgia when the USSR dismantled. They were attacked by US trained Georgian forces in 2008. The Georgian forces murdered 12 Russians peacekeepers and consequently got their asses handed to them by the Russian army in 5 hours. Realising that they had gone a bridge too far in trying to fcuk with Russia, western politicians like Milliband immediately hung Georgia out to dry and announced that Shakaashvili had overstepped the mark, even though it was their [NATO'S] idea.

And if you are so adamant in trumpetting the rights of Ukraine or Georgia to be independent from Russia then why aren't you just as supportive of the aspirations of the South ossetians to be free from Georgia or the Novorussians to be free from Ukraine?

You can't have it both ways.

Bull

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 03:50PM

moxin wrote: »

And they kidnapped an Estonian!! Ya know what, not one former Eastern Bloc country has positive relations with Russia and certain conspiracy driven posters ask why?!
They all(yes all) do not trust Russia. Shall we name them? Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Slovakia, Czech, Romania(this country wanted to arm Ukraine!), Bulgaria. And Finland!! They can't all be wrong in their hostility towards Russia and certain posters on AH right?! :rolleyes:

Stop lying. 90% of Lithuanian fishing industry relies on exporting th Russia. Are you saying that the Poles hate the Russians but love the Germans? After what the Third Reich did to them. You talk about historical animosities as if Russia is or was the only empire to stoke the acrimony of other nations. You think the guatamalans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Filipinos, afghans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, Iraqis, etc., etc., just love the US? Or the Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, etc just love the British? Or the Angolans and Amazonians just adore the Portuguese, or the Chinese and Indonesians and Malays just worship the Japanese after all the slaughter that has been visited upon them by these "torch bearers of freedom"?

Gatling · 13-09-2014 04:04PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Stop lying. 90% of Lithuanian fishing industry relies on exporting th Russia. Are you saying that the Poles hate the Russians but love the Germans? After what the Third Reich did to them.

You mean what the third reich and the red army and communist party did .

got nothing to do with ukraine at this present time

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 05:53PM

sheesh wrote: »

non existant ??? he has already taken a large chunk of Ukrane and Georgia, and the poles have been told that they are coming for them too. the russians are doing military exercises on on the Finish border.

the US helped the afgans against the Soviet Union this is meant to be a different administration/government.

You are familar with the concept of sovereign countries?

I am not exactly hugely pro american but I question the sanity of anyone out side of russia being pro russian at the moment.

I'm very aware of the concept of sovereignty. I'd like to know, however, what your interpretation of it is.
Since Washington orchestrated the coup and toppling of the Kiev government and are now perpetuating an agressive propaganda campaign against Russia, would you not classify that as the subversion of a "sovereign" nation, as you so glibly euphemise?

sheesh · 13-09-2014 06:01PM

Egginacup wrote: »

when has Russia "taken" Georgia? If you're talking about the semi autonomous regions of abkhazia and south ossetia then you need to get your facts right. These regions opted not to join with Georgia when the USSR dismantled. They were attacked by US trained Georgian forces in 2008. The Georgian forces murdered 12 Russians peacekeepers and consequently got their asses handed to them by the Russian army in 5 hours. Realising that they had gone a bridge too far in trying to fcuk with Russia, western politicians like Milliband immediately hung Georgia out to dry and announced that Shakaashvili had overstepped the mark, even though it was their [NATO'S] idea.

And if you are so adamant in trumpetting the rights of Ukraine or Georgia to be independent from Russia then why aren't you just as supportive of the aspirations of the South ossetians to be free from Georgia or the Novorussians to be free from Ukraine?

You can't have it both ways.

So all of a sudden the russian speaking Ukranians en mass spontaneously decided that they wanted to become part of russia? And just by chance Russia just happened to have without any planning just happened to have an army ready to facilitate this and the russians had no hand act or part in the fermenting of this sudden change

Still being pro russian eh? Yeah Russia is really great but only for Russians.

Western politicians like Milliband? Is the leader of the UKs labour party and has never been PM.

Clearly you are a russian living in Russia in employment of the russian government. Your complete lack of everyday knowledge of european politics has demonstrated that.
Unfortunately because you are in russia all you media is government controlled.

What the hell are you doing on an Irish Website? I thought your governemnt was trying to create its own sphere of influence and not bother with us weak willed westerners.

BoJack Horseman · 13-09-2014 06:06PM

sheesh wrote: »

So all of a sudden the russian speaking Ukranians en mass spontaneously decided that they wanted to become part of russia? And just by chance Russia just happened to have without any planning just happened to have an army ready to facilitate this and the russians had no hand act or part in the fermenting of this sudden change

In a parallel universe, yes.

Still being pro russian eh? Yeah Russia is really great but only for Russians.

Well, the 40,000+ Russian asylum seekers pouring into the EU every year would disagree.

Egginacup · 13-09-2014 06:13PM

sheesh wrote: »

non existant ??? he has already taken a large chunk of Ukrane and Georgia, and the poles have been told that they are coming for them too. the russians are doing military exercises on on the Finish border.

the US helped the afgans against the Soviet Union this is meant to be a different administration/government.

You are familar with the concept of sovereign countries?

I am not exactly hugely pro american but I question the sanity of anyone out side of russia being pro russian at the moment.

Since the US are try to break Russia up into weak fragments....I believe the industry term is "Balkanization" much like the endgame in Iraq is, in order to control the resources of the Caspian Basin, then why wouldn't you be opposed to such aggression?

BoJack Horseman · 13-09-2014 06:14PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Since the US are try to break Russia up into weak fragments

Which are these?

Gatling · 13-09-2014 06:47PM

Is there a conspiracy theories forum ??

Markcheese · 13-09-2014 08:29PM

Red Nissan wrote: »

Here is a thought, why don't they make and United Against Russia Assembly and nuke her asss if she approaches nearer than fifty miles.

Then we'd have the EU, UAR, Russia. Would be a lot simpler no?

Cos they've no nukes , the Ukrainians voluntarily gave theirs up in exchange for some sort of defence pact signed with NATO and Russia if I remember right ... And since Russian troops have been seen operating in Ukraine if the us really wanted to have a pop at Russia they could probably use the treaty as justification , but haven't ...

Ukraine: As it happens.

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