M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

TINA1984 · 02-09-2014 3:05pm

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe the Cromwell reference was unnecessary, but the claim that the west has been left behind infrastructure-wise is accurate and the claim that Claregalway has been the worst bottleneck in the country for some time is also accurate.

Not sure if the claim of an infrastructure deficit is entirely accurate, after all we've seen 100km+ of motorway & a reopened railway line already built in the 'west' over the past decade or so.

dubhthach wrote: »

To put in perspective the population of Connacht is still lower today than what it was in 1911, in comparison Munster has it's highest population return since 1881. The population of Leinster is the greatest it's ever been. The result of lopsided development has resulted in the following percentage breakdown between the provinces:

Lenister / Munster / Connacht / Ulster (3 counties)
1841: 30.23% / 36.7% / 21.73% / 11.33%
1911: 37.01% / 32.98% / 19.46% / 10.54%
1926: 38.6% / 32.6% / 18.6% / 10%
1961: 47.26% / 30.13% / 14.88% / 7.71%
2006: 54.13% / 27.67% / 11.89% / 6.3%
2011: 54.59% / 27.16% / 11.82% / 6.42%

(Figures above are rounded)

Basically the country has become lopsided, not helped by the chronic underinvestment in key infrastructure. The facts are that Connacht lost 30% of it's population in the first 50 years of independence, Munster had 10% population loss during this period -- national population actually grew from 1926 to 1971 by 0.21%. This says alot about the priorities of the political elite.

Surely those populations statistics are reflective of the general trend the world over, the population tends to move from the periphery to the centre.

tharlear · 02-09-2014 7:25pm

Surely those populations statistics are reflective of the general trend the world over, the population tends to move from the periphery to the centre.

Which is exactly what has happened in Galway, population of the county has not change much in 150years, however the distribution has.If galway ever gets back to its prefamine population most of it will be in the city and along the m17/m18, m6 corridors. Without infrastructure not much will change

co city total
1841 441822 26979 414843 1851 323391 29878 293513 1861 272741 21464 251277 1871 247390 16992 230398 1881 239827 16607 223220 1891 212737 14771 197966 1901 196871 14243 182628 1911 186369 13990 172379 1926 173521 14858 158663 1936 172031 18930 153101 1951 163632 22035 141597 1961 151919 23686 128233 1971 151041 29495 121546 1981 173849 41116 132733 1991 177931 47284 130647 2002 201008 56750 144258 2011 250000 75414 174586

spacetweek · 03-09-2014 1:14pm

dubhthach wrote: »

The result of lopsided development has resulted in the following percentage breakdown between the provinces:

This is so frequently described as "lopsided" but in fact it's just because of economies of scale. Much industry and services in Ireland are foreign owned and Leinster is the only region that offers the level of scale these companies are looking for. Motorways in Munster and Connacht are fine for distribution but they aren't going to create financial or IT hubs there.

hi5 · 03-09-2014 1:31pm

If the housing situation in Dublin doesn't change soon then other parts of Ireland could become viable.
Most of the labour is from outside Dublin/Ireland anyway.
The west is linked to the ports by motorway as it is (except Roslare which is planned for).
Shannon and Knock airports are already there.
All you need is upgraded broadband.

antoobrien · 03-09-2014 1:41pm

hi5 wrote: »

If the housing situation in Dublin doesn't change soon then other parts of Ireland could become viable.
Most of the labour is from outside Dublin/Ireland anyway.
The west is linked to the ports by motorway as it is (except Roslare which is planned for).
Shannon and Knock airports are already there.
All you need is upgraded broadband.

To say that "the west" is linked anything by motorway is as bad as the rubbish spouted by nix published by frank a couple of weeks back.

Galway (City) is linked to Dublin by motorway. It's is not linked to Shannon, Foynes, Ringeskiddy or Rosslare by motorway or DC.

Clare is in the midwest (if you said they were in the west to them you'd know about it). Gort may as well be in Clare for all the access that the M18 currently provides the rest of Galway i.e. you still have to get to gort to make the M18 useful.

Mayo, Sligo, Leitrim are linked to Nothing. Roscommon has the N6 running through the south of the county, but that's as tenuous as the claim that because 4 motorways run though Meath that it's over subscribed.

So to claim that "all" that's needed is upgrade broadband is to justify the "To Hell or to Connacht" comments published last week.

Baldilocks · 03-09-2014 1:44pm

IT and Finance jobs - what about manufacturing?
There are significant manuacturing presences exist outside of Dublin, including in Sligo, Westport, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford.
With better infrastructure it will be easier to attract companies to 'Not-Dublin'. Unless you have some burning desire to move all jobs, and thus most of the population to Dublin, and thereby increasing the pressure on the infrastructure there (with it's inadequate water supply, and already decidedly busy roads) The water supply is already an issue for prospective manufacturing companies coming in.

dubhthach · 03-09-2014 1:49pm

spacetweek wrote: »

This is so frequently described as "lopsided" but in fact it's just because of economies of scale. Much industry and services in Ireland are foreign owned and Leinster is the only region that offers the level of scale these companies are looking for. Motorways in Munster and Connacht are fine for distribution but they aren't going to create financial or IT hubs there.

Sure and I've worked in IT in both Galway and Dublin, but the economy is more than just financial services and IT sectors. In case of Dublin alot of the "IT sector" jobs are actually customer/sales support where having a large number of native speakers of foreign language is key (one only has to look at Google, Facebook, Twitter etc.). Though obviously there is R&D going on in the likes of IBM and Bell Labs (Alcatel-Lucent) as well as a certain amount of software development (in financial services industry in particular), thankfully there's also plenty of Operations jobs once ye have the right level of experience/skillset

There's quite a nice mix of R&D going on in Galway in the likes of HP (Their Cloud platform), Cisco and Avaya (I think Avaya opened their R&D presence there because Cisco was already there), heck even IBM have a presence down there. Leaving aside IT though there is a healthy biomedical device business going on in Galway. This requires decent infrastructure links. Sure wasn't the CEO of Boston Scientific given a pre-opening trip on the Ennis-Gort section of the M18. The emphasis been was they require a decent connection to Shannon to ship their product out.

I'd also say that Cork itself is showing up as a fairly decent sized IT hub, with some big players down there such as VMware (owned by EMC), EMC, Apple, RedHat, along with a fair number of small-medium size companies (80-100) employees doing software development etc.

topper75 · 03-09-2014 2:18pm

spacetweek wrote: »

This is so frequently described as "lopsided" but in fact it's just because of economies of scale. Much industry and services in Ireland are foreign owned and Leinster is the only region that offers the level of scale these companies are looking for. Motorways in Munster and Connacht are fine for distribution but they aren't going to create financial or IT hubs there.

Following this logic, nothing would even be in Dublin - all would be in London/Brussels/Frankfurt in some kind of ever-bulging singularity.

The foreign-owned firms you refer to don't sell much percentage wise to the immedate Dublin market so I'm not sure what you mean by economies of scale. Services they rely on are often cheaper OUTSIDE Dublin in fact. Dublin has a larger population yes but there is no shortage of qualified willing talent out west. Indeed there are many employed in Dublin who would instead be living in the west if the choice was afforded to them.

Furthermore, strong economies are such due to industrial interlinkages. This has never been the focus for Irish governments who insist on the simplistic export model and little else (manufacture here and sell out, or buy in and sell out - one single VAT take), our small size quoted as the reason (despite plenty of examples like Denmark/Belgium). If you want firms to interlink within the economy and create a value chain within Ireland e.g. active pharma ingredient produced in Cork/Dublin and further processed for resale to Japanese market in Galway/Limerick plant via Shannon airport, infrastructure such as the motorway extension through Connacht is key.

hi5 · 03-09-2014 2:37pm

Get yourself a nice 4 bed semi in Tuam town centre for €60,000 only 15 minutes to Galway city when the new motorway is ready.

http://www.daft.ie/sales/106-country-meadows-tuam-galway/958025/

Stinicker · 03-09-2014 11:41pm

There should be a motorway from Kerry to Cork all the ways up the west coast to Donegal and Derry, a spur up north of Nenagh splitting into a Y further up to serve both Derry and Belfast, run Motorway from Sligo to the M6 and the country is covered perfect.

munchkin_utd · 04-09-2014 9:00am

Stinicker wrote: »

There should be a motorway from Kerry to Cork all the ways up the west coast to Donegal and Derry, a spur up north of Nenagh splitting into a Y further up to serve both Derry and Belfast, run Motorway from Sligo to the M6 and the country is covered perfect.

absolutely not. The traffic isnt there.
North of Tuam the traffic barely gets above 6000AADT (for comparison, the N17/18 at Claregalway/ Clairnbridge are over 3 times that figure)

When the M17/18 is completed then you're from the Cork/ Kerry side of Limerick to almost the mayo border on Dual Carraigeway/ Motorway

Theres need for upgrade south of Sligo town, but a 2+2 is more than sufficient there and the road north of sligo is far from the worst in the country.

veryangryman · 04-09-2014 9:11am

I agree on the traffic not being there,especially North of Nenagh (much as id love a midlands corridoor to get me up north quicker).

Annoying as it is, you look at any country in Europe and the vast bulk of Motorways aim towards the capital. The UK even with all its bigger cities has the same. M6 and M1 being the backbone and a sideways Motorway (North Wales->hull) to cover pan-Europe transport.

Going back to our little island, I would realistically say we should try get N52 Nenagh-Birr and Delvin-Ardee sorted out with minimum WS2. This would sort it out and justify traffic levels also.

serfboard · 04-09-2014 12:43pm

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe the Cromwell reference was unnecessary, but the claim that the west has been left behind infrastructure-wise is accurate and the claim that Claregalway has been the worst bottleneck in the country for some time is also accurate.

As politicians for the area, it is their job to speak out against detractors I would have thought.

As someone who lives in the West and supports the motorway I have no problem with providing (justified) infrastructure here.

However, we don't need craw-thumping, "ye're all agin us in the Wesht", 17-century referencing politicians making the case for us in such a ridiculous manner.

irishgeo · 05-09-2014 1:13pm

the only problem is the motorway is not going to suit anyone travelling from mayo who wants to go to galway city.

L1011 · 05-09-2014 1:16pm

irishgeo wrote: »

the only problem is the motorway is not going to suit anyone travelling from mayo who wants to go to galway city.

It'll have average driving speeds of 60 to 100% faster than the existing roads - people often adapt to longer routes when they're much faster.

veryangryman · 05-09-2014 2:39pm

MYOB wrote: »

It'll have average driving speeds of 60 to 100% faster than the existing roads - people often adapt to longer routes when they're much faster.

With Claregalway remaining a bottleneck until it gets it's own bypass, I think a good amount will try this, especially those working in Ballybrit/Parkmore/Oranmore

antoobrien · 05-09-2014 3:22pm

MYOB wrote: »

It'll have average driving speeds of 60 to 100% faster than the existing roads - people often adapt to longer routes when they're much faster.

Not even faster, people will take routes that are more consistent and less stressful to drive.

antoobrien · 05-09-2014 3:26pm

irishgeo wrote: »

the only problem is the motorway is not going to suit anyone travelling from mayo who wants to go to galway city.

I really don't understand how you can come up with a statement like that, the only people I can see it not suiting are the people that would be going via Ballinrobe (e.g. Westport) or through Connemara.

I can certainly see it being useful to anyone coming from the current N17 corridor and even potentially being useful to Castlebar via the N60.

flat 2 the..... · 11-09-2014 10:02am

Chatting to a crew working for roadbridge wont see plant on site for another month or so , makes no sence to me why they would start during the winter , their has to be a reason ?????

munchkin_utd · 11-09-2014 10:22am

flat 2 the..... wrote: »

Chatting to a crew working for roadbridge wont see plant on site for another month or so , makes no sence to me why they would start during the winter , their has to be a reason ?????

probably plenty of reasons possible from lack of availability of machinery (which was already posted as being a problem in post boom ireland where excess machinery from the boom was auctioned and mostly exported) to waiting on final plans to a snag in paperwork. Who knows.

jenningso · 11-09-2014 10:34am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

probably plenty of reasons possible from lack of availability of machinery (which was already posted as being a problem in post boom ireland where excess machinery from the boom was auctioned and mostly exported) to waiting on final plans to a snag in paperwork. Who knows.

Yes, serious lack of plant and machinery. Crazy to think about it, but some plant is returning home after spending 5 years or more working on the other side of the world. Irish machinery operators returning with them too. I find it amazing the worldwide mobility of plant on these big civil engineering projects!

f2 · 11-09-2014 8:30pm

They are waiting for plant, but from what I can find out it wiil be next Feb Mar before the big dig will go ahead, the tenders for the fencing hasnt gone out yet but expect them soon

flat 2 the..... · 11-09-2014 9:14pm

f2 wrote: »

They are waiting for plant, but from what I can find out it wiil be next Feb Mar before the big dig will go ahead, the tenders for the fencing hasnt gone out yet but expect them soon

That will leave a tight deadline to get it finnished ,wherr ar they bringing the plant from .

Chris_5339762 · 11-09-2014 9:27pm

f2 wrote: »

They are waiting for plant, but from what I can find out it wiil be next Feb Mar before the big dig will go ahead, the tenders for the fencing hasnt gone out yet but expect them soon

?

Isn't most of this fenced already? I thought Gort to Athenry was anyway.

f2 · 13-09-2014 3:16pm

some of the fencing done, not sure where the plant is coming back from, as far as I know Roadbridge is doing the Tuam end of the scheme which has the softest ground, the other section is between the others

flat 2 the..... · 13-09-2014 10:13pm

f2 wrote: »

some of the fencing done, not sure where the plant is coming back from, as far as I know Roadbridge is doing the Tuam end of the scheme which has the softest ground, the other section is between the others

It will be a while before we get to see some plant and machinery on the construction of this road but like all other roads with ROADBRIDGE CiViL it will be some amount of plant and men on site and will hve it compleated ahead of well ahead of schedule with a few corner's CUT

f2 · 14-09-2014 4:00pm

can you back up "well ahead of schedule with a few corners cut". I thought that Roadbridge were easier deal with than BAM according to rumour!

flat 2 the..... · 15-09-2014 7:53pm

f2 wrote: »

can you back up "well ahead of schedule with a few corners cut". I thought that Roadbridge were easier deal with than BAM according to rumour!

Yes roadbridge are good to deal with, but their is part of the M8 moterway that roadbridge done at eminence pace that had trouble with subsidence aftrer completion

Carawaystick · 17-09-2014 12:33am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

?

Isn't most of this fenced already? I thought Gort to Athenry was anyway.

There's no sign of any fencing or site clearance from the M6 anyway
Well wasn't last Sunday anyhow

Carawaystick · 17-09-2014 12:33am

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

?

Isn't most of this fenced already? I thought Gort to Athenry was anyway.

There's no sign of any fencing or site clearance from the M6 anyway
Well wasn't last Sunday anyhow

M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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