Anyone following the Ashya King story - link to his brothers latest youtube post

5littleangels · 31-08-2014 12:00PM #1

Is anyone else following this story I cant find a thread on it on boards if there is one could you let me know where, thanks.

Here is the full video his dad made before Ashya was taken away by police

It looks totally different to how it has been portrayed on sky news etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14ETQn9ZPwk

Gongoozler · 31-08-2014 12:02PM

Watched the video earlier. What way is sky news covering it?

5littleangels · 31-08-2014 12:06PM

Heres a video he uploaded last month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTrZ7ULf3A

31-08-2014 12:33PM

I watched the fathers video in sky news last night. All I saw was love for a son. He was being cared for to the same level as he was in hospital despite the news reports that his battery pack would have lost it's charge, his family had fully charged pack and food.

They are not criminals, just a loving family in a situation that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-08-2014 12:36PM

I don't mean to sound hard or cruel but I found that, for a UK story involving British people in France then Spain, it had too much coverage in Ireland. I know of a similar incident years back in Germany ( a relative worked in the hospital concerned) and while it got extensive be coverage there, it was not mentioned here. Why is a UK case any different? I've probably expressed this all wrong but I feel for the family and the child and wish them well. I just don't need to pry into their lives like the media does. Its very voyeuristic.

MagicMarker · 31-08-2014 12:37PM

Brendan Grumpy Between wrote: »

I just don't need to pry into their lives like the media does.

Then don't. Simples.

31-08-2014 12:46PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Then don't. Simples.

But Sareem just explained that it is getting alot of coverage on Irish news so they don't really have a choice in the matter ???

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-08-2014 12:46PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Then don't. Simples.

It's kind of hard when it appears on every new s programme and at my age (70+) I listen to the radio most of the day. Therefore a minimum of once an hour for 8 hours plus discussions during current affairs programmes. This attitude of "don't listen to the news nor read a paper" is a cheap shot. Cover these stories if they must but beware of overkill on stories - particularly those that reflect personal stories. Had it been in this country and the public could help in tracing them then I could see the need for blanket coverage.

whirlpool · 31-08-2014 12:57PM

Brendan Grumpy Between wrote: »

I don't mean to sound hard or cruel but I found that, for a UK story involving British people in France then Spain, it had too much coverage in Ireland. I know of a similar incident years back in Germany ( a relative worked in the hospital concerned) and while it got extensive be coverage there, it was not mentioned here. Why is a UK case any different? I've probably expressed this all wrong but I feel for the family and the child and wish them well. I just don't need to pry into their lives like the media does. Its very voyeuristic.

"The media" is a business. They will report anything that will get attention. There's no more to it so don't overthink it.

SeaFields · 31-08-2014 01:07PM

Very sad story.

I've read about this story across a few different news sites but I have yet to read on what grounds the parents were arrested. Has anyone seen that mentioned?

Aimeee · 31-08-2014 01:31PM

Very sad story and I think an an indication of how you are at the mercy of the medical profession when push comes to shove.
I'm sure there's more to this story but I have heard of situations with other families where they didn't agree with treatment for serious illness believing that the consequences of treatment outweigh the chance of a good outcome. Unless you have easy access to an alternative treatment, ie such as that mentioned (proton beam) your hands are tied really.
To be threatened with not seeing their son, if that is true, extremely bad form and imo this should be looked into. Who would risk that??
I can think of similar situations that I've been in with medics much less dramatic, and no life at risk thankfully, but unless you are in the know, or have someone advocating on your behalf it can be a very intimidating and lonely place.
Someone said to me once you live with the decisions you make for your children not the medics or the nurses giving out the advice etc. You rely on everyone wanting the best possible outcome but sometimes there is more then one way to fix things.
I know nothing about the therapies/treatments involved in this case, and please God will never have to, but I'm just saying it highlights an issue that arises probably more often than we realise on a less dramatic scale.

5littleangels · 31-08-2014 03:48PM

It is just so sad. They say they were arrested on the grounds of neglect

I can see just by watching the videos how much they love their little boy. He has stage 4 brain cancer so he really has a huge chance of not surviving at all despite any treatment offered its just beyond comprehension that in what may be his final days / weeks / months he will not be with his parents as they have been denied the right to be with him it makes me feel sick just thinking about how terrible their situation is right now. Hopefully the authorities sort everything out soon and the family is reunited and allowed / offered access to a medical team they can trust and discuss treatment options openly with.

Gongoozler · 31-08-2014 04:19PM

I can see both sides pretty equally here - I get that the parents want to go with a treatment they believe will work. The hospital have to do what they can do. The boy has to be treated for an illness and the parents are interfering with that, which is illegal. Looking stuff up on the Internet is not a substitute for proper medical care as far as most people, and these doctors are concerned. They've taken him out of hospital and away from care that he needs, so technically yeah that is reckless. And the police should be involved.

5littleangels · 31-08-2014 09:19PM

latest youtube video from Ashya Kings brother posted just a few moments ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vYSKyY12LEg&app=desktop

5littleangels · 31-08-2014 09:30PM

http://www.diariosur.es/axarquia/201408/31/parece-locura-pero-tiene-20140831151927.html

this is a from a spanish page a video of his parents handcuffed being led into a police station.

EuskalHerria · 31-08-2014 09:36PM

So Medical professionals, who have studied for years to get to their position, have recommended a course of medical treatment.

An expectedly distressed and emotional father hits google and is then surprised when medical professionals do not take on board 'advice' found on forums etc.

I can just imagine the people who are arguing that this man, whose only qualification on this important subject is being the father, would be up in arms if this child dies due to NHS negligence in letting an unqualified father overtake his sons medical treatment.

gctest50 · 31-08-2014 09:42PM

EuskalHerria wrote: »

So Medical professionals, who have studied for years to get to their position, have recommended a course of medical treatment.

An expectedly distressed and emotional father hits google and is then surprised when medical professionals do not take on board 'advice' found on forums etc.

I can just imagine the people who are arguing that this man, whose only qualification on this important subject is being the father, would be up in arms if this child dies due to NHS negligence in letting an unqualified father overtake his sons medical treatment.

He believes there is a better treatment available - the NHS are currently building a centre to provide the same treatment

his child can't wait that long so ....... bring the child to where the treatment is available

same thing goes on all day every day

Both proton therapy and traditional radiation treat malignancies the same way: by inhibiting the growth of cancer cells. The largest difference between the two is that proton therapy releases the bulk of its energy at one specific, concentrated area — radiation goes exactly where it’s supposed to go. Because of this, physicians are able to act more aggressively, increasing the radiation dosage while limiting damage to healthy tissue and organs

©2013 Hampton University Proton Therapy Institute, an affiliate of Hampton University

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25. Jarosek S, Elliott S, Virnig BA. Proton beam radiotherapy in the U.S. Medicare population: growth in use between 2006 and 2009: Data Points # 10. 2012 May 7. Retrieved from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK97147/ on May 22, 2013.

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hatrickpatrick · 31-08-2014 09:47PM

The UK terrifies me with its strong belief in the state's right to micro-manage the lives of citizens. At the end of the day it should be the individual's call, not the state's.

I remember a case last year of a foreign woman having a depression episode due to not ta meds so they forced her to have a C-section and adopted her baby in the UK, robbing it of its nationality and family. I remember another case of an elderly woman being "abducted" from hospital by her family because she was clearly near the end of her life and wanted to spend it at home instead of in a clinical environment. None of these things should be able to be overridden by the "best interests" brigade - my choices about my life may not always be the best, but they'll be mine and not somebody else's.

EuskalHerria · 31-08-2014 09:59PM

gctest50 wrote: »

He believes there is a better treatment available

In this particular case, what does it matter if he 'believes' there is better treatment available? How is he qualified to make that judgement.

Also does that justify removing the child from the hospital, with access to round the clock care, to household with no medical professionals present?

his child can't wait that long so ....... bring the child to where the treatment is

Bring the child to his house? Please explain how that is an improvement? I could understand the correct procedures being out in place to organise a safe transfer. But this 'wait in the house' nonsense is clearly not safe and ultimately not in the best interests of the child. An emotionally vulnerable father should not be encouraged due to misplaced sympathy.

Gongoozler · 31-08-2014 10:00PM

gctest50 wrote: »

He believes there is a better treatment available - the NHS are currently building a centre to provide the same treatment

his child can't wait that long so ....... bring the child to where the treatment is available

same thing goes on all day every day

Except the father himself even says that it's not just that they won't or can't, but most importantly that they say it won't help. This is, presumably, the reason it is what it is.

EuskalHerria · 31-08-2014 10:04PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The UK terrifies me with its strong belief in the state's right to micro-manage the lives of citizens. At the end of the day it should be the individual's call, not the state's.

The individual is a child, so how can a child be expected to "make the call"?

Also it's not micro managing the lives of all citizens. It's stepping in to ensure the welfare of the child from parents who have consciously removed him from a safe hospital environment. The child is not the 'property' of the father and cannot be put at harm because of the wishes if a potentially emotionally unstable and medically unqualified parent.

gctest50 · 31-08-2014 10:05PM

Gongoozler wrote: »

Except the father himself even says that it's not just that they won't or can't, but most importantly that they say it won't help. This is, presumably, the reason it is what it is.

medulloblastoma ?

Reducing toxicity from craniospinal irradiation: using proton beams to treat medulloblastoma in young children.

PURPOSE: We report on a radiation treatment technique that has reduced the dose to critical normal structures in children with medulloblastoma.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15701271

Gongoozler · 31-08-2014 10:11PM

gctest50 wrote: »

medulloblastoma ?

You do realise he said that they said that.... and not me?

gctest50 · 31-08-2014 10:13PM

EuskalHerria wrote: »

The individual is a child, so how can a child be expected to "make the call"?

Also it's not micro managing the lives of all citizens. It's stepping in to ensure the welfare of the child from parents who have consciously removed him from a safe hospital environment. The child is not the 'property' of the father and cannot be put at harm because of the wishes if a potentially emotionally unstable and medically unqualified parent.

like this lot ? t5 l5 its all much the same sure

where it was viewed by the consultant neurosurgeon, who realised the implant had been inserted at the wrong part of the spine.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/surgeon-botched-cancer-sufferer-back-operation-1-3516203

31-08-2014 10:15PM

What I don't understand is how was a European arrest warrant issued??
These people didn't kidnap their own child, they are his guardians, they took him out of hospital.
The hospital were not legal guardians of the child, parents were within their rights.

I don't understand how quickly an arrest warrant was issued in this case when you hear of numerous parents taking kids out of their jurisdiction, against the wishes of the parent with legal custody but yet it takes years and years to try and get the kids back.

Even if someone committed a serious offence, an european arrest warrant is never issued this quick to bring people back!

Gongoozler · 31-08-2014 10:18PM

bubblypop wrote: »

What I don't understand is how was a European arrest warrant issued??
These people didn't kidnap their own child, they are his guardians, they took him out of hospital.
The hospital were not legal guardians of the child, parents were within their rights.

I don't understand how quickly an arrest warrant was issued in this case when you hear of numerous parents taking kids out of their jurisdiction, against the wishes of the parent with legal custody but yet it takes years and years to try and get the kids back.

Even if someone committed a serious offence, an european arrest warrant is never issued this quick to bring people back!

Probably something to do with the dying child.

And when you take your dying child out of treatment against the advice of the doctors, being the legal guardian means diddly squat.

EuskalHerria · 31-08-2014 10:26PM

gctest50 wrote: »

like this lot ? t5 l5 its all much the same sure

Yes because highlighting one of the few cases that are subject to difficulties, mistakes or mishaps suddenly overtakes the vast majority of procedures that are simple, secure and happen without a problem.
I heard a plane crashed once, therefore I never get on planes style of logic.

Also are you suggesting that if you became very ill, that you wouldn't seek help from medical professionals?

Karl Stein · 31-08-2014 10:27PM

EuskalHerria wrote: »

An expectedly distressed and emotional father

He seemed quite calm and reasonable to me.

hits google and is then surprised when medical professionals do not take on board 'advice' found on forums etc.

You have no idea of the level of knowledge the Father had attained nor do you know who he might have consulted on the issue.

I'd imagine people can become quite knowledgeable about a medical issue if they're deeply affected by it and determined enough to do the research.

31-08-2014 10:37PM

Gongoozler wrote: »

Probably something to do with the dying child.

And when you take your dying child out of treatment against the advice of the doctors, being the legal guardian means diddly squat.

Well that's not entirely true, you can be sure if it happened here that the HSE would have to go to the courts first.
I think something like this has happened here before.
I'm all for the welfare of children, I just think this was done amazingly quickly.

EuskalHerria · 31-08-2014 10:37PM

Karl Stein wrote: »

He seemed quite calm and reasonable to me.

Does a father need to be screaming, angry or loud to be feeling emotional? Does it need to be transparently displayed?
Given the circumstances, the complications and the internet telling him there are better procedures elsewhere. Can it not be assumed the father is naturally emotional and possibly distressed?

Also in a video where he is trying to make a case for himself. A calm appearance could be adapted to help the case he is trying to make.

You have no idea of the level of knowledge the Father had attained nor do you know who he might have consulted on the issue.

I'd imagine people can become quite knowledgeable about a medical issue if they're deeply affected by it and determined enough to do the research.

In the video the father mentioned 'searching the internet' and 'looking at discussion forums'. If he was in anyway further qualified than that surely he would have mentioned it. Especially considering the video was published to put forward the impression he knows what he's doing. There was no better platform or opportunity for him to highlight and declare his qualifications in this subject.

Would you be willing to place the life of a child at the hands of a man who MAY have researched enough? It seems like an incredibly long stretch to me.

In this case, I imagine, had the child not been presented to the hospital there would have been limited actions available to the authorities. Due to the fact the child was removed from the hospital, the hospital has a duty if care to the child.

My name is URL · 31-08-2014 10:45PM

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Also in a video where he is trying to make a case for himself. A calm appearance could be adapted to help the case he is trying to make.

It's a pity the authorities and media didn't take a 'calm' approach, instead of instantly deeming him to be a scumbag kidnapper intent on ending the life of his kid.

Anyone following the Ashya King story - link to his brothers latest youtube post

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