Apple Protests

Quin_Dub · 28-08-2014 10:22PM

krudler wrote: »

Jobs requiring an education pay more than unskilled work scandal, more after the weather.

Hotfail.com wrote: »

In fairness, the difference there is absolutely massive.

In fairness - So is the required level of education.....

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 10:22PM

Hotfail.com wrote: »

35 grand-ish, I THINK, is the average.

You'd be surprised. You can go on glassdoor.com for example and see the averages of all sorts of jobs and they tend to be $60-90,000 for software engineers at big companies.

Sure I was interviewing for a tech support role recently (which would be considered several grades below a software engineer) in a big tech company and they were starting on €30k with bi-annual pay increases of 10% plus benefits.

Cool Mo D · 28-08-2014 10:23PM

kneemos wrote: »

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

Apple pays it's software developers an average base salary of $118,192. And they're not the highest paying company in silicon valley either. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-worlds-highest-paid-software-engineers-work-for-these-25-companies-2013-4?op=1

mad muffin · 28-08-2014 10:24PM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Something is rotten with the state of Apple

*points*

SAMSUNG SHILL!!

Quin_Dub · 28-08-2014 10:25PM

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Would there be a five times greater level of hourly pay for software developers over janitors? Genuinely curious, I'm not well versed in the varying hourly salaries of different professions.

Absolutely....

Entry level manual labour job - roughly minimum wage - €9/hour

Mid/High level Developer role - easily in the €45/hour plus range , higher for contractors...

emo72 · 28-08-2014 10:25PM

the disparity between rich and poor is getting bigger. its in everyones interest to make sure everyone gets a chance at a decent living.

thats my simple philosophy. peace out:)

evolving_doors · 28-08-2014 10:26PM

same as the sindo rag headlines 3 weeks ago.. shock horror ..public sector earns €80 more than private sector.. apples and oranges..doctors vs' waiters ...

software engineer vs' janitor ...

What do we want?

Communism..

When do we want it?

Now..

ok there you go, here's communism now stop protesting (forever) and go spy on yer neighbour

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 10:30PM

Just in:

http://valleywag.gawker.com/tech-security-contractors-arrested-after-demanding-high-1628155044/+kevinmonty

Tiddlypeeps · 28-08-2014 10:31PM

kneemos wrote: »

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

Depends on the area but I can't imagine it's uncommon for a senior developer to earn that and more. If they move into the project management end of it then they'd make that and more easily. If you are willing to contract it's even higher, I've had plenty of recruiters approach me (for roles I'm well under qualified for) for contract roles that offer a day rate of up to 350 which works out at about 100k a year.

Entry level pay for most software development roles is 30-35k.

emo72 · 28-08-2014 10:31PM

Armelodie wrote: »

same as the sindo rag headlines 3 weeks ago.. shock horror ..public sector earns €80 more than private sector.. apples and oranges..doctors vs' waiters ...

software engineer vs' janitor ...

What do we want?

Communism..

When do we want it?

Now..

ok there you go, here's communism now stop protesting (forever) and go spy on yer neighbour

nah. not communism. there is a happy medium. ok, say things keep going on as they are, rich getting mega richer, poor getting seriously poorer. its going to lead to problems. it wont be accepted. wealthy peeps can have it all, its set up for them, if they grab it all, it will lead to serious problems.:(

Iwasfrozen · 28-08-2014 10:37PM

emo72 wrote: »

nah. not communism. there is a happy medium. ok, say things keep going on as they are, rich getting mega richer, poor getting seriously poorer. its going to lead to problems. it wont be accepted. wealthy peeps can have it all, its set up for them, if they grab it all, it will lead to serious problems.:(

lol I dont think you have to worry about mega rich software engineers.

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

To each according to his contribution, that's my simple philosophy.

kneemos · 28-08-2014 10:43PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

lol I dont think you have to worry about mega rich software engineers.

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

To each according to his contribution, that's my simple philosophy.

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

emo72 · 28-08-2014 10:45PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

i also LOL. agreed they obviously deserve more. no harm there. a fair wage for everyone? hey, let the status quo remain. hopefully things will pan out well.

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 10:46PM

kneemos wrote: »

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

Especially in the states where you pay an absolute fortune for college.

Iwasfrozen · 28-08-2014 10:47PM

kneemos wrote: »

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

Supply and demand to a certain extent yes but also how easily replaceable you are. Those who hold degrees, legal protection, union protection or anything else that hinders an employers ability to replace them can command higher wages.

Iwasfrozen · 28-08-2014 10:49PM

emo72 wrote: »

i also LOL. agreed they obviously deserve more. no harm there. a fair wage for everyone? hey, let the status quo remain. hopefully things will pan out well.

What's a fair wage? Honestly if an unskilled worker is receiving enough to cover their bills then that seems fair to me.

28-08-2014 10:50PM

Minimum wage in California is $9, or less than 7 euros. Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View, so support workers face many hours commute to earn that minimum wage. It's not about a living wage even, it's about exploitation. No one should face a 3 hour commute and an 11 hour work day just to make ends meet.

emo72 · 28-08-2014 10:51PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's a fair wage? Honestly if an unskilled worker is receiving enough to cover their bills then that seems fair to me.

yep thats fair. maybe having enough in the kitty for a 2 week holiday after working 50 weeks. that fair?

c_man · 28-08-2014 10:53PM

Candie wrote: »

Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View

And the ludicrous planning denials going on in the bay area for new housing...

Funny how I've never seen that mentioned in the Guardian articles on this. But then, quelle surprise. They'll be all over this.

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 10:54PM

Candie wrote: »

Minimum wage in California is $9, or less than 7 euros. Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View, so support workers face many hours commute to earn that minimum wage. It's not about a living wage even, it's about exploitation. No one should face a 3 hour commute and an 11 hour work day just to make ends meet.

Ideally not, or at least that's what we should aim for, but the rationale behind the protests still kind of eludes me. It's not exactly apple's fault that the US government likes to treat people like cattle with wallets.

Iwasfrozen · 28-08-2014 10:56PM

Candie wrote: »

Minimum wage in California is $9, or less than 7 euros. Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View, so support workers face many hours commute to earn that minimum wage. It's not about a living wage even, it's about exploitation. No one should face a 3 hour commute and an 11 hour work day just to make ends meet.

Why not?

emo72 wrote: »

yep thats fair. maybe having enough in the kitty for a 2 week holiday after working 50 weeks. that fair?

Nope.

emo72 · 28-08-2014 10:58PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope.

yep

srsly78 · 28-08-2014 10:59PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Supply and demand to a certain extent yes but also how easily replaceable you are. Those who hold degrees, legal protection, union protection or anything else that hinders an employers ability to replace them can command higher wages.

Software engineers don't enjoy union or legal protection, also no degree is needed (but it helps of course).

Iwasfrozen · 28-08-2014 11:01PM

emo72 wrote: »

yep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKhGyUnc2E

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 11:03PM

In fairness I would say we have a responsibility to try and ensure people have a modest level of economic participation across all sectors

We need people in support, service, retail jobs as much as we need anyone else in order for the economy to function.

I don't see the point in being needlessly punitive to unskilled workers at all. There is really no need for it.

But at the same time people who have made sacrifices or excelled in their career obviously deserve the economic recompense for their efforts so I don't agree with the protesters objectives.

28-08-2014 11:09PM

House of Blaze wrote: »

Ideally not, or at least that's what we should aim for, but the rationale behind the protests still kind of eludes me. It's not exactly apple's fault that the US government likes to treat people like cattle with wallets.

If Apple or anyone else isn't paying above minimum wage to it's support workers, then it kind of is their issue. Minimum wage isn't a living wage in MV or the Bay area generally, even if it is anywhere else. People shouldn't have to travel for hours to earn a pittance and have no quality of life beyond survival.

House of Blaze · 28-08-2014 11:16PM

Candie wrote: »

If Apple or anyone else isn't paying above minimum wage to it's support workers, then it kind of is their issue. Minimum wage isn't a living wage in MV or the Bay area generally, even if it is anywhere else. People shouldn't have to travel for hours to earn a pittance and have no quality of life beyond survival.

I agree 100% with the bolded bit, but as far as min wage goes, the US is notorious for having a pitiful minimum wage (especially considering it's status as the largest economy in the world for the last donkey's years) and views an increased min wage as 'anti business'.

Of course if Apple were a decent bunch of fat cats they would maybe take the opportunity to recognise the plight of the essential support staff that they need to do business and pay them a decent living wage. Unfortunately though (and as much as I don't like it) they aren't technically doing anything wrong in paying their support staff the crappy minimum, if in fact they are as i'm not sure but I would assume so.

In that regard it's my own view that a company will get away with what it can, therefore it becomes an issue for the government to essentially force the issue by raising the minimum in the first place, thereby eliminating the element of choice.

That's just my view though, im not saying you're wrong!

shruikan2553 · 28-08-2014 11:17PM

Suppose they need more to pay off those college debts, no wait, that's already the people already paid more.

kneemos · 28-08-2014 11:18PM

House of Blaze wrote: »

I agree 100% with the bolded bit, but as far as min wage goes, the US is notorious for having a pitiful minimum wage (especially considering it's status as the largest economy in the world for the last donkey's years) and views an increased min wage as 'anti business'.

Of course if Apple were a decent bunch of fat cats they would maybe take the opportunity to recognise the plight of the essential support staff that they need to do business and pay them a decent living wage. Unfortunately though (and as much as I don't like it) they aren't technically doing anything wrong in paying their support staff the crappy minimum, if in fact they are as i'm not sure but I would assume so.

In that regard it's my own view that a company will get away with what it can, therefore it becomes an issue for the government to essentially force the issue by raising the minimum in the first place, thereby eliminating the element of choice.

That's just my view though, im nyot saying you're wrong!

Apple aren't employing them,contractors apparently.

Shakespeare's Sister · 28-08-2014 11:21PM

In July it was orange protests.

Apple Protests

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