Apple Protests

House of Blaze

A protest has begun at an Apple store in San Francisco around the issue of 'a growing black and hispanic underclass' of service workers who are being left behind by the big tech companies at the heart of silicon valley.

Arrests have begun as the protest continues.

Some more information here: http://action.seiu.org/page/s/silicon-underclass

and here: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/26/blacks-latinos-dominate-silicon-valleys-invisible-workforce/

Or twitterers search #techcandobetter

I dunno it sounds a bit mad to me. Almost like they think Apple, Google etc. should be hiring service workers for some reason.

They say that 'for every 1 tech worker, 4 service workers are required to support them.' but that they earn less than one fifth the average tech worker wage..

I mean surely having 4 jobs created for every 1 tech job is a good thing?

There's also an element of anger at Apple supposedly (:D) dodging state taxes via tax loopholes which I would say is fair point.

Any thoughts?

comongethappy

The Apple vs Android world war can't come quick enough.

Hootanany

Samsung

kowloon

comongethappy wrote: »

The Apple vs Android world war can't come quick enough.

We're still recovering from the Cola wars and the McDonalds vs Burger King conflict.

The Peanut

If the central issue is related to a growing black and hispanic underclass, expect it extend beyond Silicon Valley. It's right across the States. Hispanics maybe specifically in California but non-white underclass is a countrywide issue over there.

krudler

According to the report, the median hourly wage in the county for janitors is roughly $11 an hour, and $14 an hour for landscapers and security guards. By contrast, the median wage for software developers is roughly $63 an hour.

Jobs requiring an education pay more than unskilled work scandal, more after the weather.

c_man

comongethappy wrote: »

The Apple vs Android world war can't come quick enough.

What about us Windows Phone folks? On the trains?

House of Blaze

krudler wrote: »

Jobs requiring an education pay more than unskilled work scandal, more after the weather.

Tis a bit mad alright, it's like "Hey you guys earn more than us... but you live near us... we want the money you get!"

Don't really get it myself.

comongethappy

kowloon wrote: »

We're still recovering from the Cola wars

Those were harrowing, tumultuous, sticky days.

Hotfail.com

krudler wrote: »

Jobs requiring an education pay more than unskilled work scandal, more after the weather.

In fairness, the difference there is absolutely massive.

_Redzer_

Apple bashing to begin soon

House of Blaze

c_man wrote: »

What about us Windows Phone folks? On the trains?

Do microsoft even make phones anymore? :pac::pac:

kneemos

Presumably if the Hispanic had a degree in software development he could get a job with Apple?
They're hired by contractors anyway not Apple according to the link.

kneemos

Hotfail.com wrote: »

In fairness, the difference there is absolutely massive.

Any different to here?

krudler

Hotfail.com wrote: »

In fairness, the difference there is absolutely massive.

So? the software developers earn way less than upper management even though they do the hard work on that end. Be like me complaining I didnt make as much money being a desk monkey in my old job when the guy running the company earned more.

Hotfail.com

kneemos wrote: »

Any different to here?

Would there be a five times greater level of hourly pay for software developers over janitors? Genuinely curious, I'm not well versed in the varying hourly salaries of different professions.

House of Blaze

Also, Shock-Horror! Huge corporations don't give a **** about people!

I would have thought Americans were well acquainted with that fact by now.

c_man

krudler wrote: »

So? the software developers earn way less than upper management even though they do the hard work on that end. Be like me complaining I didnt make as much money being a desk monkey in my old job when the guy running the company earned more.

This.

When are we gonna see janitors picketing cinemas over not earning as much as Hollywood actors? Big difference in pay packets there.

House of Blaze wrote: »

Do microsoft even make phones anymore? :pac::pac:

Nokia actually. Before they were pumped and dumped. Best smart-phone I've ever had.

c_man

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Would there be a five times greater level of hourly pay for software developers over janitors? Genuinely curious, I'm not well versed in the varying hourly salaries of different professions.

Assuming a minimum pay for the janitor, you don't have to leave Ireland to see that pay difference tbh.

smash

They need to just stop moaning about the fact that they have jobs. People who annoy you...

N_GGERS

:pac:

The Peanut

The tone of that whole Stand up for Security article is annoying. Every corporation/ business in the world has an " Invisible Workforce". Companies hire contractors. Contractors pay their employees less than the hiring company pays them.

It's not confined to Silicon Valley. The journals printing the articles have an "Invisible Workforce"; they could be black, Asian or Irish. The nationality or race is irrelevant. Sensationalism to sell units.

Iwasfrozen

What's the problem? Do service workers expect to be paid the same as educated tech workers? Sounds a bit daft.

House of Blaze

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's the problem? Do service workers expect to be paid the same as educated tech workers? Sounds a bit daft.

You would think they would be happy of the jobs.

I mean what is the logical conclusion of this?

Protest companies -> Companies take heed, pack up, move off -> No more jobs.

catallus

To believe that the hubris of the elites goes unnoticed by their underlings is the fatal flaw in their devious machinations!

kneemos

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Would there be a five times greater level of hourly pay for software developers over janitors? Genuinely curious, I'm not well versed in the varying hourly salaries of different professions.

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

House of Blaze

catallus wrote: »

To believe that the hubris of the elites goes unnoticed by their underlings is the fatal flaw in their devious machinations!

Oh catallus, you crack me up!

Iwasfrozen

House of Blaze wrote: »

You would think they would be happy of the jobs.

I mean what is the logical conclusion of this?

Protest companies -> Companies take heed, pack up, move off -> No more jobs.

Exactly, are these service workers even unionized though?

Hotfail.com

kneemos wrote: »

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

35 grand-ish, I THINK, is the average.

mickydoomsux

Well, looks like the ice bucket things 15 minutes of fame are over.

Slacktavists will have a new cause-de-jour.

Talib Fiasco

Something is rotten with the state of Apple

kowloon

comongethappy wrote: »

Those were harrowing, tumultuous, sticky days.

One time we overran a Burger King, flame grilled every last one of them, I can still see it every time I close my eyes, and the ketchup, ketchup everywhere! The horror! But some became intoxicated by it, went further and further into the darkness, driven by their insatiable lust for more.

I love the smell of McMuffins in the morning...

Quin_Dub

krudler wrote: »

Jobs requiring an education pay more than unskilled work scandal, more after the weather.

Hotfail.com wrote: »

In fairness, the difference there is absolutely massive.

In fairness - So is the required level of education.....

House of Blaze

Hotfail.com wrote: »

35 grand-ish, I THINK, is the average.

You'd be surprised. You can go on glassdoor.com for example and see the averages of all sorts of jobs and they tend to be $60-90,000 for software engineers at big companies.

Sure I was interviewing for a tech support role recently (which would be considered several grades below a software engineer) in a big tech company and they were starting on €30k with bi-annual pay increases of 10% plus benefits.

Cool Mo D

kneemos wrote: »

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

Apple pays it's software developers an average base salary of $118,192. And they're not the highest paying company in silicon valley either. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-worlds-highest-paid-software-engineers-work-for-these-25-companies-2013-4?op=1

mad muffin

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Something is rotten with the state of Apple

*points*

SAMSUNG SHILL!!

Quin_Dub

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Would there be a five times greater level of hourly pay for software developers over janitors? Genuinely curious, I'm not well versed in the varying hourly salaries of different professions.

Absolutely....

Entry level manual labour job - roughly minimum wage - €9/hour

Mid/High level Developer role - easily in the €45/hour plus range , higher for contractors...

emo72

the disparity between rich and poor is getting bigger. its in everyones interest to make sure everyone gets a chance at a decent living.

thats my simple philosophy. peace out:)

evolving_doors

same as the sindo rag headlines 3 weeks ago.. shock horror ..public sector earns €80 more than private sector.. apples and oranges..doctors vs' waiters ...

software engineer vs' janitor ...

What do we want?

Communism..

When do we want it?

Now..

ok there you go, here's communism now stop protesting (forever) and go spy on yer neighbour

House of Blaze

Just in:

http://valleywag.gawker.com/tech-security-contractors-arrested-after-demanding-high-1628155044/+kevinmonty

Tiddlypeeps

kneemos wrote: »

Five times minimum wage would be around the 80 grand mark.No idea what a software developer makes,but I'd guess half that at best.

Depends on the area but I can't imagine it's uncommon for a senior developer to earn that and more. If they move into the project management end of it then they'd make that and more easily. If you are willing to contract it's even higher, I've had plenty of recruiters approach me (for roles I'm well under qualified for) for contract roles that offer a day rate of up to 350 which works out at about 100k a year.

Entry level pay for most software development roles is 30-35k.

emo72

Armelodie wrote: »

same as the sindo rag headlines 3 weeks ago.. shock horror ..public sector earns €80 more than private sector.. apples and oranges..doctors vs' waiters ...

software engineer vs' janitor ...

What do we want?

Communism..

When do we want it?

Now..

ok there you go, here's communism now stop protesting (forever) and go spy on yer neighbour

nah. not communism. there is a happy medium. ok, say things keep going on as they are, rich getting mega richer, poor getting seriously poorer. its going to lead to problems. it wont be accepted. wealthy peeps can have it all, its set up for them, if they grab it all, it will lead to serious problems.:(

Iwasfrozen

emo72 wrote: »

nah. not communism. there is a happy medium. ok, say things keep going on as they are, rich getting mega richer, poor getting seriously poorer. its going to lead to problems. it wont be accepted. wealthy peeps can have it all, its set up for them, if they grab it all, it will lead to serious problems.:(

lol I dont think you have to worry about mega rich software engineers.

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

To each according to his contribution, that's my simple philosophy.

kneemos

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

lol I dont think you have to worry about mega rich software engineers.

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

To each according to his contribution, that's my simple philosophy.

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

emo72

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Look it's a simple fact that software engineers are far more highly educated than support workers, as such they deserve a higher wage.

i also LOL. agreed they obviously deserve more. no harm there. a fair wage for everyone? hey, let the status quo remain. hopefully things will pan out well.

House of Blaze

kneemos wrote: »

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

Especially in the states where you pay an absolute fortune for college.

Iwasfrozen

kneemos wrote: »

It's supply and demand that dictates wage levels,but higher education makes you more exclusive in fairness .

Supply and demand to a certain extent yes but also how easily replaceable you are. Those who hold degrees, legal protection, union protection or anything else that hinders an employers ability to replace them can command higher wages.

Iwasfrozen

emo72 wrote: »

i also LOL. agreed they obviously deserve more. no harm there. a fair wage for everyone? hey, let the status quo remain. hopefully things will pan out well.

What's a fair wage? Honestly if an unskilled worker is receiving enough to cover their bills then that seems fair to me.

Minimum wage in California is $9, or less than 7 euros. Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View, so support workers face many hours commute to earn that minimum wage. It's not about a living wage even, it's about exploitation. No one should face a 3 hour commute and an 11 hour work day just to make ends meet.

emo72

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's a fair wage? Honestly if an unskilled worker is receiving enough to cover their bills then that seems fair to me.

yep thats fair. maybe having enough in the kitty for a 2 week holiday after working 50 weeks. that fair?

c_man

Candie wrote: »

Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View

And the ludicrous planning denials going on in the bay area for new housing...

Funny how I've never seen that mentioned in the Guardian articles on this. But then, quelle surprise. They'll be all over this.

House of Blaze

Candie wrote: »

Minimum wage in California is $9, or less than 7 euros. Rents are very high because of the sheer number of well paid workers in Mountain View, so support workers face many hours commute to earn that minimum wage. It's not about a living wage even, it's about exploitation. No one should face a 3 hour commute and an 11 hour work day just to make ends meet.

Ideally not, or at least that's what we should aim for, but the rationale behind the protests still kind of eludes me. It's not exactly apple's fault that the US government likes to treat people like cattle with wallets.